Welshwarrior
Banned
:-?Arabs, communist? Are you really sure you got that right?Rabs said:
A Letter To The Europeans.
bulldogg
Milforum's Bouncer
I believe our young friend was referring to the arming of opposing sides during the cold war, good example... the US arming the Mujahadeen to fight against the Russians and their proxies in Afghanistan... another the arming of Iraq in a bid to counter the russians arming Iran after the Shah was deposed... another example arming the supporters of the Shah of Iran by the US in an effort to overthrow the democraticly elected government of Iran which happened to be getting into bed with the Soviet Union... just perhaps this is just a sample of what he meant... 
Who is this clown? It has been a while since I have read such a belittle-ing, condescending, paternalizing piece of manure. Why is he instilling people with populistic fear? Doesn't he have anything better to then to judge us..... again?
Has he forgotten all about the Iran contra affair. Why does he make it sound that this only happens to us? Is it of our so called weakness that Europeans are being taken hostage? Americans were already being taken hostage long before 9/11.
What is this for nonsence! Please somebody put an AK-47 to his head and see how brave he is. Off course do they "praise" their captors!! Just like the GI's did in the Hanoi Hilton or during Desert Shield. This is called "desire to life" combined with plain old fear.
True, we are rearranging some laws about migration and public safety, but the entire legal system? This guy should do some in depth research before putting this on paper...
Cheap shot, bringing in WO II. And if the Japs wouldn't have attacked Pearl Harbor, the US would just have continued to watch. When they finally joined the Shoah was already in full swing. And that cinical "cry the beloved continent" just makes me even more angry. So again: who is he to judge us?
That is what you do when you say you end a war. You dismantle your wartime strenth of an army. Saying that you end it, but continu to be on alert..... pff why end the war at all? It's like the IRA: yeah we want peace, but not to disarm. These to don't go together well!
Yes, we would like to bring individuals to justice who break the law. I am talking about rape, assault, man-slaughter. We know that if they be judged in the US he'll be confined 3 months to the baracks and thsu elude the proper sentence!
Come on... the US has been doing this since the Russian attack on Afghanistan. It is just whom they need they sell too! Again a clear example of the pot accusing the cettle!
So this is his conclusion? Join us and do as we say or something terrible awaits you! Again that belittleing tone that makes my blood boil!
Yeah right..... help us to share the costs of destroying your ghost. Our idea of the West is clearly not his!
Has he forgotten all about the Iran contra affair. Why does he make it sound that this only happens to us? Is it of our so called weakness that Europeans are being taken hostage? Americans were already being taken hostage long before 9/11.
What is this for nonsence! Please somebody put an AK-47 to his head and see how brave he is. Off course do they "praise" their captors!! Just like the GI's did in the Hanoi Hilton or during Desert Shield. This is called "desire to life" combined with plain old fear.
True, we are rearranging some laws about migration and public safety, but the entire legal system? This guy should do some in depth research before putting this on paper...
Cheap shot, bringing in WO II. And if the Japs wouldn't have attacked Pearl Harbor, the US would just have continued to watch. When they finally joined the Shoah was already in full swing. And that cinical "cry the beloved continent" just makes me even more angry. So again: who is he to judge us?
That is what you do when you say you end a war. You dismantle your wartime strenth of an army. Saying that you end it, but continu to be on alert..... pff why end the war at all? It's like the IRA: yeah we want peace, but not to disarm. These to don't go together well!
Yes, we would like to bring individuals to justice who break the law. I am talking about rape, assault, man-slaughter. We know that if they be judged in the US he'll be confined 3 months to the baracks and thsu elude the proper sentence!
Come on... the US has been doing this since the Russian attack on Afghanistan. It is just whom they need they sell too! Again a clear example of the pot accusing the cettle!
So this is his conclusion? Join us and do as we say or something terrible awaits you! Again that belittleing tone that makes my blood boil!
bulldogg
Milforum's Bouncer
Sounds like the rounds fell right on target then... Come now it was not that long ago that French jurists pontificated in the general direction of the North American continent with far more condesension in regards to race relations et al... I daresay the fires of Paris have silenced them now however. And there have been many such incidents of European high brow lecturing of us bloody colonials if we should to lay them bare and weigh them upon the scales of karmic justice. Just because the kettle is the one calling the pot black it does not change the fact that it is indeed black.
Come now it was not that long ago that French jurists pontificated in the general direction of the North American continent with far more condesension in regards to race relations et al... I daresay the fires of Paris have silenced them now however. And there have been many such incidents of European high brow lecturing of us bloody colonials if we should to lay them bare and weigh them upon the scales of karmic justice. Just because the kettle is the one calling the pot black it does not change the fact that it is indeed black.I agree that it is a black picture that might get worse. It is the tone, the pointing of fingers, and the total lack of self-reflection amongst others which I agitate against.
Yes, we have dirty fingers and so do the States. But we have stopped lecturing the world and how to run themselves. This 19th century appoach has proven as worthless, so why use it again and again. Plus I find him rejectable on how he is war-mongering about this thread and this and that. This way you sure as hell now where it is going, because he leaves no other option open.
p.s. Maybe unnecessary to mention but I am referring to mr. Hanson when I talk about he/ him. No personal attack is ment on any of the forum members... just to make sure!
Yes, we have dirty fingers and so do the States. But we have stopped lecturing the world and how to run themselves. This 19th century appoach has proven as worthless, so why use it again and again. Plus I find him rejectable on how he is war-mongering about this thread and this and that. This way you sure as hell now where it is going, because he leaves no other option open.
p.s. Maybe unnecessary to mention but I am referring to mr. Hanson when I talk about he/ him. No personal attack is ment on any of the forum members... just to make sure!
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Welshwarrior
Banned
<removed>
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godofthunder9010
Active member
For those in Europe who didn't know, National Review is a somewhat Right Wing (as in very Republican) magazine. The contents of the article are somewhat slanted towards the Republican viewpoint as a result. National Review is not in the business of propaganda -- at least not blantantly lying about facts. As with any news media, the real facts are told from their own political perspective. The Republican Party catches the brunt of Anti-Americanism throughout the world, so it seems natural for them to speak against it. I think that the article could be a tad more tactful. but it is using some very real-life things as a basis. If our European members do a bit of filtering of tactless jargon, there is a lot of truth there.
I'll be doing my best. But if he would be proper journalism (or it) it should be necessary. I know, I know, the media is not objective....and the whole riddle. I just think any politician should bloody know better. All members choosing into any organ of governance have clout and he ramping like that.... well people will start to believe him. And that worries me a little.
Italian Guy
Milforum Hitman
Ted said:
See, Ted, this is the typical leftist "People are ignorant" attitude.
Please explain IG.
Do you mean to say that, as a leftist, I:
a) am unaware that people believe his rubbish.
b) am unaware that this is actually the case and I miss a whole lot that is going on in the world.
To be precise, I am free of both illusions. I know that some already believe Hansons crap. What worries is that some other less informed will start believing him too. And I am also aware that I am very far from knowing all and so is he! The difference between him and myself is that I try to find out the facts and be precise in stating my thesis. Everybody can make a cheap shot, but I see that as a weapon of the un-educated looking to score...... maybe I should say unwise. I know some "un-educated" people who sound a lot wiser than this charlatan.
Do you mean to say that, as a leftist, I:
a) am unaware that people believe his rubbish.
b) am unaware that this is actually the case and I miss a whole lot that is going on in the world.
To be precise, I am free of both illusions. I know that some already believe Hansons crap. What worries is that some other less informed will start believing him too. And I am also aware that I am very far from knowing all and so is he! The difference between him and myself is that I try to find out the facts and be precise in stating my thesis. Everybody can make a cheap shot, but I see that as a weapon of the un-educated looking to score...... maybe I should say unwise. I know some "un-educated" people who sound a lot wiser than this charlatan.
Italian Guy
Milforum Hitman
Only that "people" sounded so generic to me. As if you were saying that "the masses" are ready to follow the imbeciles, while there is an educated élite able to tell the truth from the lies. Yeah it must be too much of an inference out of just one word. I'd have preferred that you had used "some people", instead than just "people", that's all. But it really is not big deal, just nitpicking.
Why is every solution from people like you lead to thinking that the answers lies in slaughtering half to world, or is this just to scare people into inaction.MontyB said:
Some of the answers lies in the orginal letter at the begining of this thread A letter to the Europeans, which you keep critisizing. When did this call for slaughter of half the world?
Thougher stances on immigrations and calling to terms Islams record of persecution of non-Muslims is a good start, instead of codling them and pretend this doesn't exist.
Have forced programs for integration for those that want to they can stay those that don't they can go back, instead of making their own isolated cloistered society within Europe further alienating their mindset to that which is around them.
There are more that can be done that is not so drastic as killing everybody, like you have everyone believe in order to scare us.
Not only that but people can stop apologizing for the traditions of Western Civilization.
As far as the colinization of the US and New Zeland even you don't understand this. The basis for you country's history was was founded on the pricinpals of Western Civilization, it isn't all just about immigration. So what are you trying to stop? (not that you are trying or anything) The history of both countries were built on immigration for those who want to integrate and become part of a new country, NOT take over it and replace it with their own.
bulldogg
Milforum's Bouncer
gladius said:
Ummm, actually the initial process of colonisation was in fact comprised of taking over the land and replacing the indigenous culture and population with their own.
:read:
However subsequent to that you are quite correct and I agree with your sentiments as there is no good that can come from apologising for the errors or sins of our great-great grandparents. Hindsight is 20/20 and all that... :wink:
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
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YOUR's and MY history in New Zealand and the USA is built on immigration certainly but you are over looking the fact that neither you nor I are the indigenous race in these counties therfore your theories of intergration would only have been accurate had Settlers intergrated into the Indian nations and New Zealanders became Maori otherwise the colonisation of both countries is a perfect example of taking over a country and replacing it with their own culture.[/FONT]
About the only part of your post I can bring myself to totally agree with is bit but I would prefer to see New Zealand immigration toughened on all "foreigners" not just on a religious basis we are in the process of being over run two particular groups (oddly enough neither of them are muslim), personally I would love to see a tougher version of the US's quota system put in place here.gladius said:
I dont really disagree with this either although I think it would be an easier sell to replace "forced program" with intergration conditions attached to immigration as it really sounds like you plan to run them through the Hanoi Hilton.
I have no intention of apologising for it as it is history I just have no intention of allowing it to happen again because we have suddenly become paranoid.
Sadly this is just short sighted.
YOUR's and MY history in New Zealand and the USA is built on immigration certainly but you are over looking the fact that neither you nor I are the indigenous race in these counties therfore your theories of intergration would only have been accurate had Settlers intergrated into the Indian nations and New Zealanders became Maori otherwise the colonisation of both countries is a perfect example of taking over a country and replacing it with their own culture.[/FONT]
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This is more of an example of the Helsinki Syndrome than anything else. From memory it stemmed from a study conducted in the '70s after a spate of Hi-Jackings, specifically one of a train in Helsinki (?). What was found was that the longer the captives are held they start to identify with the captors views and politics. Conversely the longer a captive is held, the less likely the hi jackers / terrorists are to kill them, as they also start to identify with the prisoner.
I’m guessing here, but I’m think there is a critical time frame that hostage negotiators don’t try and antagonise the terrorists. After that the syndrome will start to take effect....????? I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong:smile:
With regards to the topic, interesting and disturbing. After seeing the intolerance a Fundamentalist Islamic State has for their own cultural heritage, (the demolition of historical statues in Afghanistan), and the intolerance, disruptive antisocial behaviour of "men of middle eastern appearance" in my own suburb, my biggest fear has been an oil rich Fundamentalist Islamic State with a desire for nukes. The fact that Europe is closer to the point of launch than Oz has little bearing when ICBM's come into play. As Israel has a vested interest that this does not come to pass, I can only hope MOSSAD remains the world’s best intelligence agency.
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He who does not learn from the lessons of history will be the one who repeats history's mistakes.
Monty, at least we agree somewhat on some points, but not all.
All you need to force assimilation is to have them take annual test to make sure they know english or whatever is the native language, and answer stuff relating to the countries history and law. Have more intesive programs to acclimate the children at shcool to Western culture through their lessons. Deport at once any one or organization connected to radicalism. Give educational lessons and phamplets on the rights of women and a place to turn to if they need help. Most of all, ---stop kissing their butts--- and bending over backwards to please them and not offend them, they are the one who want to live here let them make an effort to show that they deserve to do so. These are just a few ideas that can be implemented without have to send people through Hanoi Hilton like conditions.
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You are confusing immigration with colonization and conquest. Don't tell that the Muslims themselves didn't conquer and colonize other cultures themselves.
The subject here is immigration right? Those people who came after the innitial conquest was well over done, they came into these country to be part of a new country not take over it, but to be part of its culture. Unlike now where you have the majority of Muslims in Europe not even wanting to have anything to do with assimilation.
And as far as the colonization goes, all the more we need to worry since if we don't we will wind up as those natives, at least alot of them fought back, you suggest going peacefully. This is actually one of those things that fall in the category of apologizing for Western civilization, that because it happened in our past that we should not defend ourselves against it now, and we should just sit and let it happen to us?
As if we are really going to put them through a something like a Hanoi Hilton now are we. I think thats part of the problem of your thinking you go straight ahead to extremes to scare people as if you make an excuse to take no action at all.MontyB said:[FONT="]
I dont really disagree with this either although I think it would be an easier sell to replace "forced program" with intergration conditions attached to immigration as it really sounds like you plan to run them through the Hanoi Hilton.
All you need to force assimilation is to have them take annual test to make sure they know english or whatever is the native language, and answer stuff relating to the countries history and law. Have more intesive programs to acclimate the children at shcool to Western culture through their lessons. Deport at once any one or organization connected to radicalism. Give educational lessons and phamplets on the rights of women and a place to turn to if they need help. Most of all, ---stop kissing their butts--- and bending over backwards to please them and not offend them, they are the one who want to live here let them make an effort to show that they deserve to do so. These are just a few ideas that can be implemented without have to send people through Hanoi Hilton like conditions.
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[/FONT]I'm not even talking about going into history here (not that we should apologize for this either) but on pre-existing traditions that are Western and celebrate us a Westerns and not have these take a back seat because it will offend someone from another country, they don't like it they can go back.
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You are confusing immigration with colonization and conquest. Don't tell that the Muslims themselves didn't conquer and colonize other cultures themselves.
The subject here is immigration right? Those people who came after the innitial conquest was well over done, they came into these country to be part of a new country not take over it, but to be part of its culture. Unlike now where you have the majority of Muslims in Europe not even wanting to have anything to do with assimilation.
And as far as the colonization goes, all the more we need to worry since if we don't we will wind up as those natives, at least alot of them fought back, you suggest going peacefully. This is actually one of those things that fall in the category of apologizing for Western civilization, that because it happened in our past that we should not defend ourselves against it now, and we should just sit and let it happen to us?
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bulldogg
Milforum's Bouncer
Ted said:
Ted, check out the link to the good Doctor's website and you will see he is in fact an academic. He has a PhD in Classics from Stanford but his true love outside Greek and Roman classical literature is history and farming. He's not a politician, but rather, one of a rare breed of academic not steeped in far-left leaning liberal utopian utterance.
I personally like his style of extreme candor and not smoothing over sensitive areas with watered down "tactful" terminology. It is very refreshing and more to my liking.