US torturing terror suspects? - Page 3




 
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December 30th, 2004  
Doc.S
 
I have to disagree - This has nothing to do with getting down to someone elses level. This is the only way to get those people to talk period. You cant convert a terrorist with humane ways. To think that is nothing else then naive. Look at all the innocent victims in Iraq. Women, Children, Old people, aid workers, policemen, the list goes on and on. Who the hell is protecting those people from getting killed by their neighbours?

The Terrorists living next door since 20 years back? Maby we should ask those bastards if they just cant come over on a Tea-party without a bomb and tell them that it is wrong to kill your own people, and it is wrong to use Islam as a weapon for massdestruction and it is wrong to blow hundreds of kids to hell just because you want Sharia laws and see your enemys blood spreading all over the soil.

Please nice terrorist guy, Tell me where Usama Bin Ladin are, or please mr Terrorist forget your mission in this world and tell us where we can find your cousine mr Al-Zarqavi - when we are waiting for you to come to your sences your friends got plenty of time to trigger of some new landmines at the highway and destroy some checkpoints sir. We will just built up some schools and educate your kids meanwhile.

I find this all cuddling so ridiculous that I dont even find words for that shit anymore. Have people stoped watch the news or have people just got stupid as the years went on? What the heck do they need to understand that this Terrorist guys dont give a crap about schools or other human lifes? When will people wake up from this Utopia Dreamland and understand that pregnant women are blown up everyday because of these terrorists we have to be so nice to that maybe they should be offered a vacation on Hawaii after every successful mortar attack? People wake up for god sake and maybe some normal lives can be saved!

It is soon 2005 - It is not the year of the lord 1200 anylonger. I think the terrorists have to understand that too. And apparently alot of other people too because you cant **** around with these guys. Let`s face it boys and girls, you can be the next one in a high building or in a school. You can be the next one in the subway to get poisoned of Sarin gas. You can be the next one to see this world from a wheel chair and still you want to help this world cuddle with these bastards? I find it sick people.


Cheers:
Doc.S
December 30th, 2004  
03USMC
 
 
I agree Doc S. Hearts and Minds are all well and good if it's possible. And please spare me the, " The Insurgents in Iraq are fighting for their country." BS. Some of them maybe fighting for Nationalist Ideas. But What about all the other Arab Country Nationals that are there? Are they fighting for a Free Iraq? H**L NO! The extremists have declared Jihad on the west not just the US the West people. If you are not Islamic you are an infidel you are a target. If you are Islamic yet you assist Infidels or disagree with the hardline accepted by these groups you are a target.
The extermeist groups have taken a religion which is very tolerant and turned it into a battle cry for wanton murder.

Go ahead build schools, hospitals, and public works. If you believe it will win hearts and minds. It might until the next "Martyr" drives a car loaded with plastic explosives into it. Beause it was built by the the Great Satan to pollute Islam. According to Assahma Bin Laden or some other Whack job.
Was Iraq or Afghanistan defending themselves and their Nations by murdering people in Madrid? By beheading journalists and Aid workers?
No they are trying to spread Terror hence they are Terrorists and should be dealt with as such. I'm all for stopping the warm fuzzies lets try to understand them. You don't understand a rabid dog . You don't hold negotiations with a rabid dog. You kill a rabid dog.
The parallel to the Holacuast is reaching it's apples and oranges. The victims of that tragadey can in no way be compared to the terrorists of today.
December 30th, 2004  
devilwasp
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc.S
I have to disagree - This has nothing to do with getting down to someone elses level. This is the only way to get those people to talk period. You cant convert a terrorist with humane ways. To think that is nothing else then naive. Look at all the innocent victims in Iraq. Women, Children, Old people, aid workers, policemen, the list goes on and on. Who the h**l is protecting those people from getting killed by their neighbours?
You can get them to talk easy with just simple methods and you dont even touch them.
There is no need to try and convert them, its the children and younger generation.
These people will grow old and die, but the children will live on. Win thier hearts and you will win the war.
Quote:
The Terrorists living next door since 20 years back? Maby we should ask those bastards if they just cant come over on a Tea-party without a bomb and tell them that it is wrong to kill your own people, and it is wrong to use Islam as a weapon for massdestruction and it is wrong to blow hundreds of kids to h**l just because you want Sharia laws and see your enemys blood spreading all over the soil.
Its easy to justify to yourself, justify it to the families of the dead in iraq and to children.
Quote:
Please nice terrorist guy, Tell me where Usama Bin Ladin are, or please mr Terrorist forget your mission in this world and tell us where we can find your cousine mr Al-Zarqavi - when we are waiting for you to come to your sences your friends got plenty of time to trigger of some new landmines at the highway and destroy some checkpoints sir. We will just built up some schools and educate your kids meanwhile.
As hitler found out , you cant change adults but you can change children.
Quote:
I find this all cuddling so ridiculous that I dont even find words for that shit anymore. Have people stoped watch the news or have people just got stupid as the years went on? What the heck do they need to understand that this Terrorist guys dont give a crap about schools or other human lifes? When will people wake up from this Utopia Dreamland and understand that pregnant women are blown up everyday because of these terrorists we have to be so nice to that maybe they should be offered a vacation on Hawaii after every successful mortar attack? People wake up for god sake and maybe some normal lives can be saved!
Would you feel better knowing that you just shot a child to get information on his fathers organisation.
I mean hey if torture is okey then it should be fine to hurt his families.
Just another means of getting information. The end does not justify the means.
Quote:
It is soon 2005 - It is not the year of the lord 1200 anylonger. I think the terrorists have to understand that too. And apparently alot of other people too because you cant f**k around with these guys. Let`s face it boys and girls, you can be the next one in a high building or in a school. You can be the next one in the subway to get poisoned of Sarin gas. You can be the next one to see this world from a wheel chair and still you want to help this world cuddle with these bastards? I find it sick people.
I get angry at these terrorists to!
EVERY ONE HATES THEM!
That does not mean we need to use thier methods on them.
DO YOU WANT TO BE THE ONE WHO TELLS YOUR CHILD THAT YOU HURT ANOTHER PERSON TO GET INFORMATION??
If and when i join the military i will not let this happen! By god as my witness i will not let anyman do this no matter the cause!
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December 30th, 2004  
03USMC
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by devilwasp
You can get them to talk easy with just simple methods and you dont even touch them.
There is no need to try and convert them, its the children and younger generation.
These people will grow old and die, but the children will live on. Win thier hearts and you will win the war.
its easy to justify to yourself, justify it to the families of the dead in iraq and to children.
As hitler found out , you cant change adults but you can change children.

Would you feel better knowing that you just shot a child to get information on his fathers organisation.
I mean hey if torture is okey then it should be fine to hurt his families.
Just another means of getting information. The end does not justify the means.
I get angry at these terrorists to!
EVERY ONE HATES THEM!
That does not mean we need to use thier methods on them.
DO YOU WANT TO BE THE ONE WHO TELLS YOUR CHILD THAT YOU HURT ANOTHER PERSON TO GET INFORMATION??
If and when i join the military i will not let this happen! By god as my witness i will not let anyman do this no matter the cause!
Well as long as your speaking from a BTDT point of view. The problem is your not. It's fine to have high standards and impeccable ethics. Do you really believe that the Terrorists would give you the same ? Doubtful.

IMO The bottom line is this. Make War on innocents expect no quarter.
December 30th, 2004  
devilwasp
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 03USMC

Well as long as your speaking from a BTDT point of view. The problem is your not. It's fine to have high standards and impeccable ethics. Do you really believe that the Terrorists would give you the same ? Doubtful.

IMO The bottom line is this. Make War on innocents expect no quarter.
BTDT?
No they dont, and i see where your comeing from. I can understand and some part of me actually wants this , but....its not right!
December 30th, 2004  
Salient
 
Sometimes harsher methods need to be employed to gain the information one needs. On occasion even torture is known to be an effective method of interrogation but not always. What I dont understand is, what is the point of taking pictures? Do only what is necessary to gain the information you need. Interrogation should never be personal. If you allow emotions to be involved you start to lose sight of the objective. And that goes for both sides of the argument. The purpose of interrogation is to gain information that will be useful. And the method you use should be decided by the willingness of the subject to co operate aswell as what motivates them to give information. Sometimes the psychological approach works best and at other times a physical approach is the only option. Torture should never be employed as a form of retribution. This achieves nothing.
December 30th, 2004  
Missileer
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chewie_nz
once again i feel that someone needs to say.

why do we need to go down to that level. i don't hear anyone owning up to torturing nazi party members?

aren't you just giving them a reason to continue their struggle. you win these struggles by building hospitals and school. not by torturing people. and esp not by setting the wrong example for this middle eastern experiment in democracy
So far, the criminals have blown up every police station, church, school, firehouse, oil pump stations, etc..... that we have built. I'm not sure if putting a pair of women's underwear on someone's head and taking nude photos of them is as bad as sawing someone's head off while they scream. as near as I recall, all of those victims were non combatants.
I don't recommend it but I did watch one of the executions, I noticed the knife wasn't large or sharp.
December 30th, 2004  
Jason Bourne
 
DocS and USMC03 are correct in what they say, you can't talk to these people and expect them to talk back.

I remember seeing an episode of "The Shield" where some doctor kidnapped a little girl and he wouldn' talk, so Vic went in there and he beat the hell out of that guy, and what did the guy do, he told the cops where the girl was, now Dutch wanted to talk to the guy.

terrorists are smart people, many interrogators try to get people to talk by playing word games with them and hugging them so to speak, but the terrorists don't respond to that, they respond to pain and fear.

remember the Munich Olympics, remember what happened to the Israeli atheletes, they were kidnapped and murdered, did the Israelis respond with hugs and kisses, hell no, the Israelis made it clear that you don't **** with them through use of force.

I have the source on this info if you don't believe me.
December 30th, 2004  
chewie_nz
 
remember the Munich Olympics, remember what happened to the Israeli atheletes, they were kidnapped and murdered, did the Israelis respond with hugs and kisses, h**l no, the Israelis made it clear that you don't **** with them through use of force.


yep...and isreal now doesn't have to worry about terrorism...oh hang on
December 30th, 2004  
r031Button
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Bourne
I remember seeing an episode of "The Shield" where some doctor kidnapped a little girl and he wouldn' talk, so Vic went in there and he beat the h**l out of that guy, and what did the guy do, he told the cops where the girl was, now Dutch wanted to talk to the guy.

remember the Munich Olympics, remember what happened to the Israeli atheletes, they were kidnapped and murdered, did the Israelis respond with hugs and kisses, h**l no, the Israelis made it clear that you don't **** with them through use of force.
.
Well as long as TV does it; it must work right? So that means my C7 has an 18 foot muzzle flash and that I never have to reload unless for dramatic effect?

Also; I would hardly look to Israel on how to deal with terrorists effectively; how to fight and Urban war? yeah they know that inside and out...but I don't think anything the Isrealis have done has been particularly effective at combatting terrorism.