"No One Left Behind" - Page 5




 
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January 19th, 2013  
Capt Frogman
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by headwards
To the both of you - you know its a luxury which only the victors get, did you by any chance get your enemies dead back to their families?
Theres plenty of our dead still on foreign shores and the same goes for the both of you when we have lost. It hasn't always been an everytime option, even for the two most powerful nations of the last century.
The bodies are my enemies aren't my responsibility. However, there corpses were left for their comrades to collect.

I'm not disputing that we have dead on foreign shores. I'm just stating that I myself never left the fallen under my command and I'm not aware of any other British commanders doing the same in modern times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by headwards
Being supremely more powerful clearly matters because if they had driven you off or cut your logistics you wouldnt have been able to advance to get the bodies would you?
The concept of bringing every 'body' back is something I would say most armies regard as a case by case basis. Corpses arent worth lives.
Have a read of that link I posted about the Royal Marines going back for a fallen comrade. They underwent extreme risk to retrieve the body. Some even got medals for their bravery.

Have you served in Iraq or Afghanistan, or commanded a troop?

Quote:
Originally Posted by headwards
Look before this turns into a **** slinging match which I can see you leaning towards Brinktt how about we have a civil conversation? Is it anywhere in the Geneva convention that an enemies dead must be returned to them?
I refer you to this:

http://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/en...v1_rul_rule114

Quote:
Originally Posted by headwards
Capt Frogman, even in the first gulf war weren't British special forces soldiers left to the enemy as they couldn't be carried? I read the book a few years ago but I am sure that much is true.
Bravo Two Zero? They were extreme circumstances where I believe multiple things went badly wrong. I did state in an earlier response that British SF units had left bodies. Their circumstances are much different to "normal" units.
January 19th, 2013  
headwards
 
Dont get me wrong Capt, its most certainly a fortuitous time that neither of you were forced to leave a man behind, and retain the ability to dictate the courses of the conflicts which Britain participates in, far be it for me to judge that which has seen me grow up in peace.
I read your link, it was an exceptional act by exceptional soldiers and officers, Perhaps not something which your average company could be expected to complete on a regular basis?
No I have no military experience which would mean anything to you. i find it very interesting how fierce you two are when it comes to bodies. Surely when it is a life or death situation you don't consider the needs of a man who is already dead the same as a live man? His corpse could cost you hugely. Especially in situations which it sounds like you both were involved in.
Thanks for your reply
January 19th, 2013  
SGT G
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by headwards
Dont get me wrong Capt, its most certainly a fortuitous time that neither of you were forced to leave a man behind, and retain the ability to dictate the courses of the conflicts which Britain participates in, far be it for me to judge that which has seen me grow up in peace.
I read your link, it was an exceptional act by exceptional soldiers and officers, Perhaps not something which your average company could be expected to complete on a regular basis?
No I have no military experience which would mean anything to you. i find it very interesting how fierce you two are when it comes to bodies. Surely when it is a life or death situation you don't consider the needs of a man who is already dead the same as a live man? His corpse could cost you hugely. Especially in situations which it sounds like you both were involved in.
Thanks for your reply
The dead do matter. I will not have the weight of that soldier on my shoulders knowing I could have done more to bring home a fallen hero. Sometimes you have to make the tough decisions. Weather or not to fight to bring back someone whom you were close with, that wears the same uniform. On todays battlefield I would gladly give my life to protect the fallen if thats what it came to.
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January 19th, 2013  
Capt Frogman
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by headwards
Dont get me wrong Capt, its most certainly a fortuitous time that neither of you were forced to leave a man behind, and retain the ability to dictate the courses of the conflicts which Britain participates in, far be it for me to judge that which has seen me grow up in peace.
I read your link, it was an exceptional act by exceptional soldiers and officers, Perhaps not something which your average company could be expected to complete on a regular basis?
No I have no military experience which would mean anything to you. i find it very interesting how fierce you two are when it comes to bodies. Surely when it is a life or death situation you don't consider the needs of a man who is already dead the same as a live man? His corpse could cost you hugely. Especially in situations which it sounds like you both were involved in.
Thanks for your reply
I felt it was my duty to make sure no one was left behind, dead or alive. My men put their trust in me as troop leader so it was my duty to make sure they all made it back.

Obviously I had to weigh up the dangers involved in getting to a fallen comrade. But if a comrade is down, I would always dispatch 2-3 men to attend to casualty to assess injuries etc. The rest of us would provide covering fire and request air support if available. We would then move the body to a safe area for an air evac. Helicopters are only a radio call away and are very useful.

Watch these videos fully and you'll understand what I mean:


January 19th, 2013  
84RFK
 
 
Well...Helicopters are only a radio call away, provided you belong to the side in the conflict that have something close to air superiority...
I have all the possible respect for heli-jockey's and their abilities, it takes guts to zig-zag valleys and hills to perform an extraction under enemy fire.
January 19th, 2013  
Capt Frogman
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 84RFK
Well...Helicopters are only a radio call away, provided you belong to the side in the conflict that have something close to air superiority...
I have all the possible respect for heli-jockey's and their abilities, it takes guts to zig-zag valleys and hills to perform an extraction under enemy fire.
Every country has choppers of some sort.
January 20th, 2013  
84RFK
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Frogman
Every country has choppers of some sort.
Sure, but usually only one side in a conflict have air superiority, and sometimes even that isn't enough.
More than one chopper littering the jungle in Vietnam you know, and the North Vietnamese was definately NOT the party in that conflict with air superiority.
January 20th, 2013  
LeEnfield
 
 
I agree that if possible the fallen should be recovered, but not if it is going to cost even more lives. Now back in the 1950's our dead were buried in a military cemetery and even that is off limits these days except with written permission of the UN.
January 21st, 2013  
MikeP
 
 
Absolutely situational-like all the quote folks like to embellish their signatures and avatars with. Sounds better than it reall works sometimes.

A number of SF recon types from RVN have recenty been recoverd and others over the years.
It simply was not possible under the conditions to recover or even be sure what happened to them at the time.
You'd have to be there to understand it.
Running for your life heavily outnumbered does not leave a lot of options.
Certainly nobody ever stopped to burn any bodies.
Nobody ever said that stuff was a lot of fun.