Originally Posted by headwards

Well hang on a minute- there are plenty of armies and situations where getting left behind is still reality. Light infantry operating in the bush is very much unchanged and just as isolated, and in an ambush its back to the last RV or die. Taking one or two wounded would be all a section or det could possibly manage.
Only a nation supremely more powerful then the one its facing can expect to hang onto even its dead which is undeniably a sentimental luxury.

"sentimental luxury"

WTF is that supposed to mean?

I suppose we've been spoiled these last 11 years then? I can't help but think you're taking a shot at us from an "overmatch" standpoint even though overmatch is virtually meaningless in COIN. I'm curious how many situations you've been in where you're left to this decision?

Small unit tactics are small unit tactics whether it's from the US or Zimbabwe. Light infantry isn't that different from your army to mine. I'm pretty sure the US soldiers that are in the middle of the Konar valley are dealing with the same deprivations that you would if you were there. The suck is the suck. We still get our dead out. SSG Guinta of the 173rd charged into the taliban in the middle of a well planned ambush on his column to get their wounded from being taken by the enemy. They were in the middle of the Korengal valley which is about as isolated as you can get. His selfless act broke the back of the enemy ambush. From Chosin to Ia Drang, to Hill 881S, to Fallujah WE BRING OUR DEAD OUT.

Originally Posted by headwards

Well hang on a minute- there are plenty of armies and situations where getting left behind is still reality. Light infantry operating in the bush is very much unchanged and just as isolated, and in an ambush its back to the last RV or die. Taking one or two wounded would be all a section or det could possibly manage.
Only a nation supremely more powerful then the one its facing can expect to hang onto even its dead which is undeniably a sentimental luxury.

I beg to differ based on my 22 years service in various conflicts across the world.

A "sentimental luxury"? You've clearly never lost a comrade?

Originally Posted by Capt Frogman

A "sentimental luxury"? You've clearly never lost a comrade?

Clearly he hasn't.

He's a pup, hopefully he never has to find out.

The most terrifying experience I EVER encountered in combat was watching an attached Marine sniper team from hundreds of meters away get overrun. We were doing hunter killer missions within the city and were saturating a real bad area with sniper teams, observers, and DM's. We tried frantically to get a QRF, CCA, CAS,...anything to them before they succumbed to the enemy fire. We were too late. Knowing that those guys were dieing and may end up on some video made us all extremely angry. We went into the area with extreme prejiduce to recover their bodies. We got them back...but not before they were mutilated by the enemy. If he understood the gut wrenching feeling that comes with the idea that YOUR brothers are at the whim of the enemy...he might change his tone.

Originally Posted by brinktk

Clearly he hasn't.

He's a pup, hopefully he never has to find out.

The most terrifying experience I EVER encountered in combat was watching an attached Marine sniper team from hundreds of meters away get overrun. We were doing hunter killer missions within the city and were saturating a real bad area with sniper teams, observers, and DM's. We tried frantically to get a QRF, CCA, CAS,...anything to them before they succumbed to the enemy fire. We were too late. Knowing that those guys were dieing and may end up on some video made us all extremely angry. We went into the area with extreme prejiduce to recover their bodies. We got them back...but not before they were mutilated by the enemy. If he understood the gut wrenching feeling that comes with the idea that YOUR brothers are at the whim of the enemy...you might change your tone.

I am so sorry to hear this; this must be a haunting experience for you and your soldiers. This might be a bit off topic; you, Capt. Frogman, and all other war veterans here. Write down your experience, not for yourself, do it for the men who never returned home, some day in the future. People will listen to you as we are listening to the veterans of WWII. You have daughter, Brinktk. She might want to hear this when she is older.

I might be wrong, I don't know. I have never been in combat

Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk

I am so sorry to hear this; this must be a haunting experience for you and your soldiers. This might be a bit off topic; you, Capt. Frogman, and all other war veterans here. Write down your experience, not for yourself, do it for the men who never returned home, some day in the future. People will listen to you as we are listening to the veterans of WWII. You have daughter, Brinktk. She might want to hear this when she is older.

I might be wrong, I don't know. I have never been in combat

I've contemplated writing a memoir...but I'd prefer to be done with my service before I do. I do have a unique distinction of having served in combat as a lower enlisted, NCO, and junior officer all within the same war...of course, I never really thought many people would really give a **** about what I did in the war anyways.

Originally Posted by brinktk

I've contemplated writing a memoir...but I'd prefer to be done with my service before I do. I do have a unique distinction of having served in combat as a lower enlisted, NCO, and junior officer all within the same war...of course, I never really thought many people would really give a **** about what I did in the war anyways.

I urge you to do it now, when you are "closer" to it. You can use the same method as Eugene Sledge, he wrote "To Peleliu and Okinawa with the Old Breed" He wrote down footnotes and later these footnotes turned into a book.

Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk

I am so sorry to hear this; this must be a haunting experience for you and your soldiers. This might be a bit off topic; you, Capt. Frogman, and all other war veterans here. Write down your experience, not for yourself, do it for the men who never returned home, some day in the future. People will listen to you as we are listening to the veterans of WWII. You have daughter, Brinktk. She might want to hear this when she is older.

I might be wrong, I don't know. I have never been in combat

I wrote to the next of kin of my fallen comrades. It wasn't easy but I felt it was my duty as troop commander.

I guess it should be documented but I prefer not to dwell on the past, especially where there was nothing I could of done to prevent the deaths.

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier ~of~ the Queen!

To the both of you - you know its a luxury which only the victors get, did you by any chance get your enemies dead back to their families?
Theres plenty of our dead still on foreign shores and the same goes for the both of you when we have lost. It hasn't always been an everytime option, even for the two most powerful nations of the last century.

Being supremely more powerful clearly matters because if they had driven you off or cut your logistics you wouldnt have been able to advance to get the bodies would you?
The concept of bringing every 'body' back is something I would say most armies regard as a case by case basis. Corpses arent worth lives.

In saying that this thread is about 'no man left behind' which clearly was intended to mean 'no alive man left behind' which I totally agree is something which I am sure everyone on that side appreciates.

Look before this turns into a **** slinging match which I can see you leaning towards Brinktt how about we have a civil conversation? Is it anywhere in the Geneva convention that an enemies dead must be returned to them?
Capt Frogman, even in the first gulf war weren't British special forces soldiers left to the enemy as they couldn't be carried? I read the book a few years ago but I am sure that much is true.

Originally Posted by I3BrigPvSk

I urge you to do it now, when you are "closer" to it. You can use the same method as Eugene Sledge, he wrote "To Peleliu and Okinawa with the Old Breed" He wrote down footnotes and later these footnotes turned into a book.

I agree it is better to write or prepare it now while it is fresh in your mind even if you don't publish it until after you have left the service.