"No One Left Behind" - Page 3




 
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January 18th, 2013  
brinktk
 
 
And I know soldiers from WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan that fought so desperately to recover their dead or wounded that it literally changed the entire course of the battle. It works both ways.

It's not about what I want or what my men want. It's to preserve the integrity of the unit. It's about adhering to a set of principles to ensure you bring all your men home. If my men know this, I honestly believe they will fight harder for each other. I don't care the examples you post, I have never left ANY of my dead or wounded behind and I never will. PERIOD. If one of my subordinate leaders came up to me after a battle and told me they left some of their people behind...I would likely fire them on the spot and possibly court martial them according to the circumstances. I'm not in the business of leaving my soldiers on the battlefield simply because they're an inconvenience.
January 18th, 2013  
LeEnfield
 
 
Recovering your dead.....I think this largely depends on the action you are fighting and were you are. As airborne every thing you need our want is on your back you have little or no vehicles to carry bodies on. Having spent a fair amount of time in the desert it is not a place that you can leave your dead unburied for long, so your main aim to to win then you can look after your dead, if you lose it does not make much difference as you are more than likely to have joined them. Still I would not want any one to have died just to get my body as in a few years you are nothing but a name on a wall.
January 18th, 2013  
84RFK
 
 
While certainly a noble stance Brinktk, it may prove as difficult as "Peace for our time" in practice.
If a LRRP with no means of mechanical transportation experience casualties it will be a nearly hopeless task to bring all the boys back home, and trying will most likely be fatal to the surviving members of the patrol.

It's definately not what a regular army is trained for, but to completely disregard the possibility of something like that could prove dangerous in a worst case scenario.
And as we all know, old Murphy never sleeps, and if things can go wrong, they will go wrong, at the worst possible moment, and especially so in the armed forces.
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January 18th, 2013  
Capt Frogman
 
 
In the case LRRP, it proves slightly more difficult. I know of a few occasions where SF units have burnt the body of a fallen comrade. Anything to prevent the body falling into hands of those that'll use it for propaganda purposes.

However, these days a medevac is just a radio call away. You'll have a chopper with you within 45 mins, often less.

Also, modern troops are very well trained in battlefield first aid and often will have a medic attached to the patrol. I was trained to a high standard and have inserted IV lines, stemmed bleeding, carried out CPR and all manner of first aid.

Despite what is being said, I can't recall any British soldiers being left behind in Iraq or Afghanistan. I served 22 years and can't recall any instances of it.
January 18th, 2013  
brinktk
 
 
A worst case scenerio in my mind is getting overrun, and if that's the case, it won't matter anyways.

I'm not saying there is never a scenerio where you just have to cut your losses. I'm not stupid. I'm all too familiar with the realities of combat. But instances these days where leaving the dead or wounded is the only option are extremely rare.
January 18th, 2013  
brinktk
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Frogman
In the case LRRP, it proves slightly more difficult. I know of a few occasions where SF units have burnt the body of a fallen comrade. Anything to prevent the body falling into hands of those that'll use it for propaganda purposes.

However, these days a medevac is just a radio call away. You'll have a chopper with you within 45 mins, often less.

Also, modern troops are very well trained in battlefield first aid and often will have a medic attached to the patrol. I was trained to a high standard and have inserted IV lines, stemmed bleeding, carried out CPR and all manner of first aid.

Despite what is being said, I can't recall any British soldiers being left behind in Iraq or Afghanistan. I served 22 years and can't recall any instances of it.

Exactly. If one survives the golden hour then they will survive 99% of the time. Every combat arms soldier in our Army is trained as a combat lifesaver, trained in immediate lifesaving aid that will keep a soldier alive long enough to get them to the next level of care. Helicopters are never more than 30 minutes away. Most soldiers killed today are so grievously wounded that if they were wounded ON the operating table they would likely still have died. If there is a chance of survival, then almost every time they are saved.

Not to mention, the level of firepower available to anyone who has a radio if they happen to find themselves in a situation where they may have to make the decision to leave dead or wounded essentially ensures that we will always be able to get our boys home.
January 18th, 2013  
Capt Frogman
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by brinktk
Exactly. If one survives the golden hour then they will survive 99% of the time. Every combat arms soldier in our Army is trained as a combat lifesaver, trained in immediate lifesaving aid that will keep a soldier alive long enough to get them to the next level of care. Helicopters are never more than 30 minutes away. Most soldiers killed today are so grievously wounded that if the were wounded ON the operating table they would likely still have died. If there is a chance of survival, then almost every time they are saved.

Not to mention, the level of firepower available to anyone who has a radio if they happen to find themselves in a situation where they may have to make the decision to leave dead or wounded essentially ensures that we will always be able to get our boys home.
Yes, "the golden hour" is key although it's now the “platinum 10 minutes”, rather than the “golden hour” that used to be talked about.

To reduce the number of fatalities during these critical first few minutes, emergency medicine can now be provided deep inside enemy territory. All soldiers on operation have basic first aid training. At least one in four soldiers is an military team medic. They have advanced first aid training and carry additional medical equipment including products to stem excessive bleeding.

If the injury is serious, a Medical Emergency Response Team (MERT) is sent urgently. This is a Chinook carrying highly specialist medical personnel, consisting of a consultant, an emergency nurse and two paramedics. In Afghanistan, the MERT is equipped to deliver life-saving care onboard the helicopter on the way to the field hospital.

Based on two years of figures, the average time between injury on the battlefield and arrival in a hospital bed is under 50 minutes.
January 18th, 2013  
LeEnfield
 
 
Agreed the world has moved on since I was in the army nearly 60 years ago and helicopters have made great difference for the wounded. Also communicationbs have also changed so there is a lot more support and back than there once was.
January 18th, 2013  
Capt Frogman
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeEnfield
Agreed the world has moved on since I was in the army nearly 60 years ago and helicopters have made great difference for the wounded. Also communicationbs have also changed so there is a lot more support and back than there once was.
Yes, very much so.

I can't imagine how things were back when you served. Must have been difficult when comrades fell and had to be left.
January 18th, 2013  
headwards
 
Well hang on a minute- there are plenty of armies and situations where getting left behind is still reality. Light infantry operating in the bush is very much unchanged and just as isolated, and in an ambush its back to the last RV or die. Taking one or two wounded would be all a section or det could possibly manage.
Only a nation supremely more powerful then the one its facing can expect to hang onto even its dead which is undeniably a sentimental luxury.