Largest leak in US military history tells the truth on the Afghanistan war

Oh my god how stupid you are...

Always the simplest kind of thinking...

What if it was the case? So what? Is my opinion inferior to yours because I'm french? or from North African/Arabic descent?

Stupid rhetoric... And racist, bigoted...

And since when speaking Arabic, traveling and knowing other cultures a crime? It's a crime when you are dealing with ignorant people...

You are the one wasting oxygen and giving a bad name to your whole country and the whole military with your poor attitude.

Freaking savage... that's all you are. You are not better than the Taliban you hate, you are just the same piece of worthless scum, just that you eat different food and speak a different language...

Arrogant people like you have to be corrected... Damn savages...
 
You don't read my other posts very closely do you?
I actually lived in many countries and speak several languages. I actually have a lot of issues regarding how the US deals with conflicts around the world and believe that if things go down this path, the US will never completely win a war in the conceivable future not because too little force is being applied but because too much is being applied, often in the wrong places all the while blowing chances for dialogue.

I hate people who tolerate scum bags like the Taliban all the while accusing our people of doing "barbaric" things. That's you by the way.
Also I hate people who endanger the lives of our folks fighting the war. You seem to like such people.

So it's pretty obvious who's side you are on and it's certainly not ours. In fact, I don't think you're even willing to give any of us a chance.
On this board, many of us have in fact kept our ears and minds open enough to actually have a change in opinion regarding Israel and that may not mean a whole lot to you but over here with Hollywood and other media constantly telling us to feel sorry for the Jewish plight, it's taken some effort from us individually.
We are willing to listen, but you are simply full of sh1t. The people who suffer most under the Taliban are not Americans, they are other Muslims. This fundamentalist way of life is NOT representative of the vast majority of Muslims around the world. Yes, many are conservative and like to preserve their culture, beliefs and their dedication to God. I RESPECT that. But not many I know would like to have a ban on music, radio, football... You make me sick LeMask.

Go
And
Die
 
Oh, you are speaking now?

And me, I hate people who arent coherent or at least trying to be coherent. You dont like the Taliban? They were your buddies in the cold war. You dont like Saddam? He was your boy in the war with Iran.

I dont support the Taliban, I really dont, I hate their guts more than you do. Because I know more about these extremist nutjobs effects on whole countries (Algeria etc...)

But I have the right to oppose everybody in the conflict, the US government and the Taliban.

And i'm not into this like dont like BS... It's silly.

I know that democracy have a price. I know that the truth have a price, I know that moral values have a price. And that if we dont accept to pay this price, then nature, justice, god, call it whatever you want, will balance the situation and that it will cost us more than anything else...

So no, I'm not on "your side" whatever what you call "our side" because you are not on my side neither... Why should I be the one giving support?

And I'm giving everybody a chance. And I mean everybody... But you are not even trying to understand or be understood.

And you dont give a damn about Muslims or terrorism... When you woke up? The 9/11 was a wake up call? Muslims had to suffer from terrorists way before that... You started to count 10 years ago... Just 10 years ago. Well, guess what? you are late.

But why the hell are you telling me all of this? Why should I be concerned? Do you think that I support the fundamentalists? What makes you think like that?

I get a fight with these intolerant bastards everytime I meet them, and I'm not even talking about the real hardcore ones, just the ones who share their beliefs...

You cant open a bottle of wine without seeing them rolling their eyes and moaning... Even if their own religion doesnt ask them to behave like this... They are pulling laws out of their asses and making it horrible for everyone...
Why should I support these idiots?

And dont get racial/cultural/religious... It's all business... Money and politics... They dont give a damn about the people living there...
 
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In Bold..........

Oh, you are speaking now?

And me, I hate people who arent coherent or at least trying to be coherent. You dont like the Taliban? They were your buddies in the cold war. You dont like Saddam? He was your boy in the war with Iran.
Get your facts straight. The Taliban weren't around back then. You seem to be mistaking a lot of these relationships as friends you make at school. Saddam Hussein served a purpose against Iran that was seen as a bigger threat. It's not so much about liking Saddam, it's about choosing which a**hole to back.

I dont support the Taliban, I really dont, I hate their guts more than you do. Because I know more about these extremist nutjobs effects on whole countries (Algeria etc...)
B U L L S H I T .

But I have the right to oppose everybody in the conflict, the US government and the Taliban.
Right now it's one or the other.

And i'm not into this like dont like BS... It's silly.

I know that democracy have a price. I know that the truth have a price, I know that moral values have a price. And that if we dont accept to pay this price, then nature, justice, god, call it whatever you want, will balance the situation and that it will cost us more than anything else...
Yeah.
People are paying the price for it every day. You're not one of them.

So no, I'm not on "your side" whatever what you call "our side" because you are not on my side neither... Why should I be the one giving support?
You're right. I don't like people who support the Taliban.

And I'm giving everybody a chance. And I mean everybody... But you are not even trying to understand or be understood.
Like who?
In Afghanistan the two major sides are the US (and allies) and the Taliban (and their allies).

And you dont give a damn about Muslims or terrorism... When you woke up? The 9/11 was a wake up call? Muslims had to suffer from terrorists way before that... You started to count 10 years ago... Just 10 years ago. Well, guess what? you are late.
Dumbass. I grew up in Muslim countries in my teens. In 1999 I wrote a high school paper on the threat of terrorism and how it would eventually hit the US. I was well aware. Dumb f*ck.

But why the hell are you telling me all of this? Why should I be concerned? Do you think that I support the fundamentalists? What makes you think like that?
In Afghanistan, it really is between the two. A US backed coalition to create a stable Afghanistan or the Taliban will be back. I don't see any concerted effort by Muslim countries to destroy Islamic fanaticism, in fact, all I see are authorities in Muslim countries AFRAID to engage them in fears of losing the support of their populations for being "unMuslim."
To their credit, some Muslim countries have made progress in dealing with fundamentalists in their own countries but not abroad. So either put up or shut up.

I get a fight with these intolerant bastards everytime I meet them, and I'm not even talking about the real hardcore ones, just the ones who share their beliefs...

You cant open a bottle of wine without seeing them rolling their eyes and moaning... Even if their own religion doesnt ask them to behave like this... They are pulling laws out of their asses and making it horrible for everyone...
Why should I support these idiots?

And dont get racial/cultural/religious... It's all business... Money and politics... They dont give a damn about the people living there...
 
My facts are straight, they are the same people, no difference between the Taliban the Saudis that are lying in bed with your presidents...

You were playing with fire when you were backing Saddam. You supported Iran's corrupt regimes to get cheap oil. And then when the people took power, they went directly to your enemies.

Why should they forgive these kinds of offense? I wish there was people to leak these information to the honest workers in your country at that time. Telling them "Your government is destroying two big countries to get you cheap oil, and tomorrow, your children will have to fight their children."

I want to know how they would react to that...

No, it's one or the other... I dont have to pick a side sir. I support who ever is right when he is right.

The Taliban have a list of objectives, some are terribly bad and others acceptable and even good. The Taliban fight the corruption in Afghanistan, it's not very civilized, but the people there still asks for their help in some maters.

If a Taliban is fighting criminals... I support that effort.

But of course, the overall picture is wrong... Because they are doing a lot of crazy stuff... But I still dont think that violence would solve the whole problem. We need a political project and an efficient military to enforce and protect the building effort. And maybe we will have some peace in this land of warfare.

I support the US troops when they are trying to do their job, when they are fighting criminals, when they are taking risks to spare innocent civilians...
But I'm angry at them because they allow their government to do some stupid things... Like when they dismantled the Iraqi army at the beginning of the war... That was a stupid thing to do...

And I'm paying the price of democracy more than you think... Of course, I dont get shot at, at least not yet. But I'm actively working against corruption in my country and it's partners all over the world...
You dont know what I do...

Well, I cant speak in the name of the Muslim authorities... Or whatver what we call Muslim authorities/countries...
This is a very complex topic. We cant jump on it easily.
First, most of these countries are third world countries.

There is people who are rich or poor. The rich dont give a damn about terrorism. And the poor, well, their problem is how to eat and get to a doctor, maybe buy a new TV to watch Dallas... They cant help you much.
The middle class that could care about politics is motivated by religion. They oppose terrorism in the name of what is good and it's god who defines what is good or wrong...

The problem is that the governments hate this behavior, because god also oppose these corrupt regimes who are stealing and pillaging the wealth of these countries...

So the rich dont care, the poor cant help and the average class have to shut up and mind it's own business or they might be in trouble...

And Western countries are well aware of this situation, in fact, they built it. They give money to these governments to fight "fundamentalists"... And these governments jail the people who ask for more justice and less corruption...

Because WE cant see the difference between these guys and the bad guys, they all quote Allah and wear a jilbab and have lots of hair on their faces...

And this is how things are... We silenced the Muslim world for years and now you want them to speak up?

The problem is that when they will start to speak up, our guys will label them as religious fanatics... Maybe bomb them.

The people in power want the world this way... They dont give a damn about Muslims or American soldiers dying in the field... Their blood is equally worthless.
They make so much money on their backs...

While honest people are killing each others for stupid reasons, there is people making billions on their backs...

The US government dont want peace, the Israeli government dont want peace, the Muslims are bloody idiots who are used by their governments and their enemies... The whole situation is awful...

And your views about me are very far from the truth... This is not a soccer match buddy...

Edit:
Here is a picture of your president making hugs and kisses with a Taliban:
http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2005/04/25/image690875g.jpg

Oups? It's a Saudi King? Same difference... Fundamentalist scum... He is wearing cologne? So what? He still stinks of corruption...
 
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You're jumbling a lot of things.
You obviously didn't read the part about me believing the US strategy and approach is flawed.
You obviously don't know what I think of oil companies or defense contractors for that matter.

Actually since you have established that we are criminals, I suppose that means you do support the Taliban.
Friggin' told you.

Albania is not a developed country either but they have sent troops to Afghanistan.
If Islamic countries do not go and deal with these trouble makers, eventually other countries will be compelled to do it instead.
So again, put up or shut up.
Many of these Muslim countries have a LOT of oil money. You can't say that money can't be used to take action against those who oppress other Muslims but apparently buying Manchester City is a higher priority :rolleyes:

F
U
LeMask
 
Well, then at least say it...

Speak up about it. At least do that. There is a lot of primal anti Americanism these days, I dont want to fuel that. I think that it's silly...

We should be able to name problems without being labeled as a Taliban supporter... The Taliban have good reasons to oppose the Americans in Afghanistan, but I dont like their political program, their methods etc etc...

Support is conditional.

Well, Albania is maybe an exception to the rule... and still, they arent really a Muslim country, the Arab culture isnt very present there... A bit like Turkey, as they have a very special history...

It's true... They have a lot of money, the most important resource in history of mankind actually (oil). But oil is also a malediction. a real curse... Because it brings corruption.

Do you think that it's good for your country to see the Arabs in the Arabic Peninsula invest in Muslim countries?
Iran is an excellent example, when they tried to build a real country, there was a coup and the Shah took power in Iran...

We want them to buy expensive cars and jewelry for their all covered up women... We dont want to see them build powerful armies, or powerful economies...
 
What sort of money do you think Albania has?
Obviously the priorities are very badly placed.

As for the bad apples in the US and elsewhere (certain individuals and certain corporations), I am aware of them and their actions and their presence makes winning hearts and minds world wide a very difficult challenge. Their actions have been immoral and reckless and millions of Americans have had their lives worsened and their tax money cheated because of them.
 
And I agree with you.

Money isnt everything you know, some people think that we need wealth to achieve democracy, but there is countries like, I dont know, Mali... Who proved that wealth is just a factor among others...

I dont know the case of Albania, I admit taht I dont know much about Europe and Eastern Europe...

But the Muslims as people are opposed to terrorism. But they have a lot of problems...

And I have a little theory about that. There is a cultural difference over here. In our countries, saying "I oppose terrorism" have a meaning...

While in these countries, saying that have no meaning. They dont share our methods... In France, the people protest for anything and everything... And they are not organised for that...

They protest sometimes, but only to send us a message, a bit like speaking our language.

So I say that they do condemn terrorism and fundamentalism, but they express it differently... And not like we do.

There is a communication problem somewhere...
 
Embedded.....

And I agree with you.

Money isnt everything you know, some people think that we need wealth to achieve democracy, but there is countries like, I dont know, Mali... Who proved that wealth is just a factor among others...
Right, money isn't everything. I think for one, the Middle Eastern countries with oil got their wealth for free, which is why laziness and corruption seems to be an incurable epidemic. They have so much money that they can use for positive change and work throughout the Muslim world but no, they have to do something about their guilt (from laziness and corruption) by supporting extremists.

I dont know the case of Albania, I admit taht I dont know much about Europe and Eastern Europe...

But the Muslims as people are opposed to terrorism. But they have a lot of problems...
Right and ultimately they are the only ones who can really win the fight. Do you think the US or Europe can actually win the war on terror? No. Muslims have to. It is ultimately the objective of the US and its allies.

And I have a little theory about that. There is a cultural difference over here. In our countries, saying "I oppose terrorism" have a meaning...
This cultural difference is key. There is a lack of appreciation about this over here.

While in these countries, saying that have no meaning. They dont share our methods... In France, the people protest for anything and everything... And they are not organised for that...

They protest sometimes, but only to send us a message, a bit like speaking our language.

So I say that they do condemn terrorism and fundamentalism, but they express it differently... And not like we do.

There is a communication problem somewhere...
Most likely.
But if Muslims cannot do something about these extremists, others will. And when they do, don't ***** and moan about how it's being done.
And, in case you forgot, Muslims seem to do a grand job of quite indiscriminately slaughtering each other. At least the US and allies go to great lengths to reduce civilian deaths, not just as some kind of "feel good" move but as a key component of wartime strategy (one part I believe is absolutely correct).
 
I won't argue with you on the most of what you've written, but concerning corruption in Europe...do you really think that a member of the parliament or government can make his/her decisions without bias if he/she is, at the same time, a part of the corporate management in a major enterprise? I don't know about Sweden/Scandinavia in general (though I imagine it isn't all that different from our country), but here in Germany most of the ministers (and many members of the parliament) have jobs in multiple enterprises, they are either part of the management or of a supervisory board.
From what I know, in the UK it's even worse, not to mention Italy and the like...
Corruption is everywhere, and there's little that can be done about it.

Do you really believe that a member of parliament or the government will make decisions favorable to him or the company where he is on the board without someone in the parliamentary system would wonder why he took such a decision?

In addition to legislating, the members of the Danish parliament have the task of controlling the government. This happens primarily by members of parliament and committees who ask questions to ministers. It is inherently particular the opposition in parliament, who see it as an important task to monitor the government.

In Denmark, citizens have the opportunity to complain to the Parliamentary Ombudsman if they consider that an authority has violated the law or made other mistakes in the handling of a case. The Ombudsman is elected by parliament, but is not subject to the parliament, and has the task of controlling state, municipal and other public authorities. The Ombudsman can also initiate a case on its own initiative and make a study of an authority's decisions.

You also have the free press as public watchdogs that are not accustomed to failing to pursue a case if they believe that there is something that stinks.

I suspect that there is also a parliamentary monitoring of the Bundestag.

I'm not naive; I know corruption is taking place. But it divides on whether there is one rotten egg in the basket or whole chicken farm is contaminated. Fact is that corruption at the level LeMask claim does not take place in our part of the world.

I don’t agree with you there's little that can be done about it

More openness, transparency procedures, monitoring mechanisms, evaluation and revision of our politicians are the key words behind the fight against corruption. And it works in most countries in Europe.


But I am no oracle. I have studied politics in college so that is why I believe that this is so.

//Micha
 
LeMask; your statements in bold.

First, information has a value. Some information have a ridiculous value, like if I told you that tomorrow the sun will rise. This is useless information...

Yes, all information has a value. If you now tell me that the sun raises on Christmas Island at 6:06 no value? And if I take a walk on the beach and I meet one of the locals who tells me that there are almost always many people on the beach until about 3:00 pm tomorrow. It may well be said to be harmless information? But if I pass these two innocent information’s to my intelligence service, Then I know now that if I want to insert a seal team at Christmas Island it's best after 3:00 pm and before 6:06 pm. Oops! Information of no value was put together and suddenly the information got intelligence value.

Maybe that he sent them everything he could leak, and that some useless/classified materials got out... but the journalists are professionals, they know their job and they know what have value for the public they are trying to inform.

The intelligence officers are professionals, they know their job and they know what have value for the soldiers' safety in the Field.

And yes, everybody in the US army is a volunteer. But the will of a human being rises and drops with time... After a tour or two, I'm not sure if it's always true.

Just ask them to volunteer before every mission... Is it too much to ask for?

So if there's a fire in your house and you call the fire brigade then the Fireman is allowed to say there are too many flames in the fire so I will not help you? You still don’t get it; do you? For the third time the military is not a democracy. You do what you have been told. It’s either their way or the highway. You can not just pick the cherries and then just leave when it suits you.

I admit taht I dont know much about Europe and Eastern Europe...

Self-knowledge is a good thing. Then you should probably not make such statements as..

And Western countries are well aware of this situation, in fact, they built it. They give money to these governments to fight "fundamentalists"... And these governments jail the people who ask for more justice and less corruption...

And then finally…

There is a communication problem somewhere...

It must be damn shame since you have a four years education in information and communication.

//Micha
 
Well Micha,
I spoke about the value of information for a reason. What you said is absolutely true, but it's not the point I was heading to.

I said that the journalists have a right to know... Maybe not everything, but A LOT. Because they have an important role in a democracy. Their role is to inform the people.

Now, the journalists will have access to a lot of information. Some of this data have a value for the public and a value for the enemies of the concerned parties.

The good thing is that the value the public gives to this data is often not the same value the "enemies" (let's say the Taliban) give...

So, in a few words... The public dont need or want the information the Taliban wants/needs...
Example: These "mission templates" whatever they are... I dont think that this kind of information have any value to the public in his mission to preserve democracy... Even if it's very valuable to the terrorists...
So, the journalists should have destroyed this data... As their mission is to inform the public and not inform the public and the Taliban.

The government is hiding some facts to preserve moral etc... And this is wrong. If there is 1000dead soldiers, dont report 25... If civilians are killed, dont say that every body is happy enjoying ice cream... etc...

Because if you do that, you treat the public as just taxpayers... Cows giving milk to the man...

The government have to care about the public, his money, safety, his informed decisions too... Everything...

The will of the government is the will of the public. If it's the will of the government controling the information to not let the public develop his own will... We have a name for this, it's called a dictatorship...
 
I'm reading now an article where they say that Wikileaks leaked the names of some informers in Afghanistan (local afghans collaborating with the Coalition)...

And this is a good example of information with no value to the public and endangering the war effort.

I hope they are working on this... It's bad journalism work here, I know that the amount of data is huge, but this is wrong...
 
LeMask, my old friend.

This article was published in one of the major Danish newspapers some years ago. It was written by a journalist who had interviewed the Danish soldiers in Iraq.

I quote from the newspaper.

“The Danish politician sends us to Iraq to perform a task without giving us the equipment which we need to do our job; says the soldier. Among other things, we lack some electronic equipment. The soldiers will soon be equipped with a sort of radio transmitters in their vehicles, known as jammers that can block radio waves around the vehicles. These jammers will cost the Danish taxpayers 40 million. which the military would not use if there wasn’t a need for the equipment.”

If we now imagine that you are sitting at home in your armchair and reading this article in the newspaper, what do you think? Do you understand what is written and if you have to evaluate the text, then what is your conclusion?


To all of you, who read this post, please do not respond. I only wish LeMask's comments.

//Micha.
 
Originally I was on the fence about the Wikileak situation. I was originally angry at the pentagon for trying to hide or cover up many of the not-so-nice things that goes on in Iraq and Afghanistan concerning US forces and the Wiki leaks was their comeuppance for keeping for its policy of CYA.

I feel I was wrong and I have since changed my mind.

While I still think the DOD still plays the country for a bunch of idiots, the release of names of Afghan informants was a serious breach of military protocol. It puts people trying to help us at very severe risk and makes others who might be willing to help much more reluctant to do so.

And sure enough, today the Taliban threatened to behead anyone they caught on that list. A direct result of the irresponsible behavior of both the leaker and the website operators.
 
And sure enough, today the Taliban threatened to behead anyone they caught on that list. A direct result of the irresponsible behavior of both the leaker and the website operators.

And that´s why classified information is classified
 
And that´s why classified information is classified

Not always. Sometimes things are classified because its embarrassing or politically damaging, not because they pose any real security risk. The previous administration was infamous for classifying its dirty secrets.

But in this case, while some of the information was hardly a big secret (like Pakistani ISI actually helping the Taliban...like duh!) other bits like specific US tactics, and the names of informants etc, had no business in the public eye.


The founder of Wikileaks is a radical left-wing crackpot crusader who views his anti-establishment war as a crusade, and he its Messiah. He actually has a good point on many issues including Afghanistan but like all radicals he thinks the ends justify the means and if that means putting people into extreme danger then he thinks its absolutely justified to do so as long as it serves "the cause". Like all megolmanics that have power, He's very cavalier with other people's lives, but very protective of his own. This guy optimizes the word "megalomaniac".

In this guys's head posting the Normandy Invasion plans a few days before D-DAY would be justifiable.
 
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