It's going to be interesting in the coming decades...

03USMC said:
You don't understand the issue with Columbia or the history of La revolution in Latin America, if that is your position.

Chavez was won't attack with his military he'll simply continue to support FARC with funds and safe haven and take the fight into Columbia using Columbians to do it. It's called victory from within using local forces.

As far as comparing militarys. Columbia is geared toward COIN Chavez has steadily geared his toward a more conventional force recently. Chavez is using Castros game plan.

Before calling anyone an old fart there slappy you might wanna take the time to appraise yourself of the intel of the theater your speaking about.
Click to expand...

Then why is Chavez rapidly expanding his Army? He's just concluded a deal for MiGs, Tanks, and infantry small arms from Russia. Those are not all going to the FARC, I think Chavez has a bigger game going on than just Columbia.

and George, at issue isnt communism. I think MontyB was on the ball when he said Communism was a guerenteed failure of a political system, after all its failed in all places its been tried. Whats at issue is peoples right to self-determination. Its the very reason why we fought to seperate ourselves from Great Britian, the right to choose our own destiny -sink or swim. If people in South America want to go for communism thats on them. We cannot claim to believe in freedom while denying others the right to choose their own path because it displeases us. That makes us no better than King George III.
 
Chavez is expanding his military for two reasons. One he has convinced himself that he is going to be attacked by Columbia, the US, the Dutch, the evil moon monkeys or somebody.

Two it's to keep the people in line at home. Not too much good tank country in the Columbia border country.

Communism in Latin America has always been backed by outside forces too. Its no different than our evil evil form of running dog capitalism that backed other regiemes in the region. Chavez is is just the new face to an old game thats gonna end with the same results.
 
No, 03USMC. Columbia spends three times as much annually as Venezuela on their military. And that is not counting the vast amount of military aid that the U.S. gives to Columbia.

If you look at the capabilities of the Venezuelan military, it's got ancient weapon systems for the most part. What we are observing is a modernization of that military to meet its defense needs.

And if that really upsets you, then you need to write your Congressman and ask them to explain the $57,100,000 in U.S. military aid that we provided Venezuela from 1999 to 2004. But that is a drop in the bucket compared to the $3.6 billion the U.S. gave to Columbia in the same period.
 
They are the process of getting SAM Systems from Russia as well as Tanks, IFV's and aircraft from Russia and China. And talk is they are expanding their Naval force with deep water as opposed too coastal craft via oil trade offs. Vessels coming again from China and Russia. They already have recieved shipments of more modern small arms from both sources to arm up the regular as well as reserve forces.

99 was the last aid package that went there before Lt Col Chavez cut ties with the US. Moot point.
 
Mmarsh, the one difference would be that an effort against Communism in South America would be an attempt to avert total disaster. But I suppose you're right. They do have the right to vote in the Communists as much as the Germans had the right to vote in Hitler. We just have to remember that we're going to have to pay for their sh!t one way or another.

As for Venezuela's game plan, they want to play the role of big brother in a Communist South America. They need to be able to conduct a little show of force to "encourage" Communism along the way. I'm sure there are many reasons why Chavez would want to have a strong military. Pissing off much of the world would be one reason.
But remember that we can't always assume that it's a right to self determination thing here. These "people power" folks are really good at bullying the public into voting for their own folks. Or they terrorize the voting areas so that people who are not likely to vote Communist would be too afraid to show up.
Why do you think Manuel Zelaya wanted the military to conduct the survey regarding whether or not he should be allowed to stay a "few" more extra terms?
But I suppose the argument gets too complicated then.
Anyways if you think there are too many people coming to the US from Latin America right now, wait until Communism hits them.
 
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The "aid" package your refering to is actually the cost of running the small military advisory group that we maintained in country the worked mainly with El Caribes and BIN.

Actual aid stopped in 99 when Chavez was elected and begin his slide into a Castroesque persona.

Columbias aid package is a two fold package that includes equipment tech support, and other items that have dual missions of COIN and ERAD.

That is the disparity in the figures. It's hardly rocket surgery high speed. But here it is.

Pre 99 there were aid packages similar to Columbias going to Caracas.

99 Chavez gets elected starts his commie yapping about the evil US. Aid is curtailed except for a small USMAC in Country. That USMAC remained in Country until 2004 doing a whole lot of nothin.

Advisory groups are considered military aid for budgetary concerns.

Hence the money used to maintain and operate it is considered Military Aid.

Think ya got it yet?
 
Actually, the bulk of military aid to Venezuela was counter drug related with the Department of Defense in the period I referenced. The link I provided itemizes the aid by specific program.
 
Nice try but counter narcotics for DOD is still part of the mission tasked to advisory commands.

Barney style one more time.

You are dealing with an advisory group in South America

Most South American militaries have a CN function

In the time frame most narco was controlled by insurgent groups hence COIN and CN go hand in hand in that area.

Advisory groups and other enties in that arena recieve the funds and distribute it as earmarked by DOD.

It still counts as military aid due to the fact that it's end purpose is military in nature be it training CN forces or a new chow hall for the general it's military aid.

So no matter how you try to spin it military aid.

In this case or the case of any advisory group involved in CN part or most of that money is used for up keep of the group and equipment. Or the up keep of the host countries equipment. It's not a check handed to the country its contolled mission oriented funds.
 
I don't really understand why Americans feel so inclined to criticize the foreign policy's of other nations to the extend they are doing it.
 
In any case i dislike Chavez and any ruler who rules for as much as he has , and his "Big bad USA" publicity stunt is done for various reasons that have to do both with foreign policy and his local policy.


Nevertheless , the foreign policy even far worse people than Chavez follow should not be so easily singled out , instead it should be compared with the foreign policy of other powers of the region , and one should judge the consequences of such policy with no bias.
 
Sounds like Paranoia to me and another attack on genuine democracy. Just because the population wants freedom from greedy Western interests doesn't give us the right to interfere, providing they don't interfere with us that is.

Leave South America alone, enough damage has been done elsewhere!
 
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Going down that road now are we?
I believe we had a conservative member who many of us criticized for using similar tactics, regardless of whether we agreed with the message or not.
Not everyone who is pro-Capitalism or pro-Democracy or anything will agree on why they are for or against something. In this case, it's not a very well thought out argument against Communism. Certainly, they do not address the real issues as to why Communism is so dangerous.
My bet is that the person who wrote this article didn't understand it himself but was probably convinced of it anyway. In a sense, someone who does't understand but managed to get the right overall answer. Kind of like getting the right answer to a complex math problem while getting all the work (aka proof) wrong.
Or another explanation: the person who wrote it wrote it for stupid people who are likely to fall for Communism and couldn't possibly understand a real explanation for why Communism is actually a bad thing.

The text itself is blurry but I'm thinking the year says 1955?
Back then, though Communism had been around for a few decades and had cost millions of lives, it was still a very new thing and there was still much promise in achieving the dream of an egalitarian society. It's possible that folks who were against Communism did not truly know the dangers of it and those who were for it didn't understand what they were really signing either.
This is 2009, every Communist experiment on the face of the earth has failed and we now know for certain that this is something that is just not going to work, at least anytime in the forseeable future. There is an almost inexhaustible supply of evidence against Communism and an unbelievably small supply of evidence for it.

Let me ask you a few questions Perseus.
How do you rate according to the BMI?
Do you own a refrigerator?
How many pairs of shoes do you have?
How do you wash your clothes?
What kind of soap do you use?
You don't have to tell me. I'm sure you know the answers and the answer points to one thing: not even you can stick to your own beliefs. So how are you going to get the REST OF THE WORLD to follow them?
 
MontyB said:
The Soviet Union is dead and buried and it doesn't matter whether Putin wants a return to the "good ole days" or not the fact is that the Soviet Union will never be resurrected.
Click to expand...


"Whoever does not miss the Soviet Union has no heart, whoever wants it back has no brain" - Former President of the Russian Federation, Vladimir Putin
Click to expand...


The Soviet Union is long gone.
 
Well yeah. Putin was a KGB agent that worked in East Germany.

Even though Putin is now the PM, not President, Medvedev is Putin's little puppet.
 
well that is the word on the street (Russian streets) anyway...
although the word on the street was that medvedev would retire early (or get sick or something that would make no longer be able to fulfill his role as president) and back come Putin because technically he hast breached the constitution then but as you can see that didn't happen ...
 
Yeah in the point of view of Russians, Putin has done a very good job of bringing a country that was on the verge of falling apart back together again.
Regardless of what title he goes by, we all know Putin is the guy who is really running the show. A bit like Singapore's Lee Kwan Yew. Singapore has a President and a Prime Minister but the man in charge is Lee Kwan Yew. Don't know how active Lee Kwan Yew is now though... he was Senior Minister until 2004 but don't know after that. He's in his 90's now.
But same deal I think.
Read: dictator. ;)
 
Russia is now the worst of both worlds, laissez-faire and effectively a dictatorship via the media. Shows the two concepts are not intrinsically related!
 
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