Ela as i said before i will not convince you, these discussions with Israeli Jews are pointless, you guys made your choice, you will pay the price just like you paid the price for helping communists.

There's always a piper to pay Ela if you think you will be allowed to live peacefully the way you are you're wrong, Israel is going to become a mass grave of your people and its going to be the consequence of your choices.

You cannot take away and hope for a peacefull life, history of other nations who had much greater stability then you should have thought you this.

You have no right nor moral background for any of the claims you made just like Americans dont have any claims to the Indian land, the difference is that Indians wont kill Americans, Arabs will kill you, they're unforgiving people with long memories and your country will fall into a crisis at some time, you're not there to stay regardless of what you chose or want.

Thats my last post on the topic, its clear enough we're not going to convince each other so lets each hold on to our respective views and time will show which one was right.

Originally Posted by EladBell

for a fact yes i do.go ahead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXq57XK2L0A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRQcTPIaETE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sdnyAgR4bo

There's plenty more if you want them.

I think it's the Egyptians, they operate a much better armored force than the Syrians, and seem to be better trained. I'm not sure about the politics between Israel and Egypt, but i was under the impression things where quite well compared to older times.

The Syrians have to get past the Goland heights to attack Israel directly, and Israel proved the Syrians are no match for it on those mountains when two takes knocked out the cream of the Syrian tank force.

Now with the Israelis sporting even better armor the Merkava 4s one of the best tanks in the world- Syria doesn't have a chance to break the Israeli lines on that mountain range.


The Jordan's im not sure about, i dont know much at all about it's military capabilities, but im confident that they are no match for the IDF. The IDF are just so experienced and well equipped compared to it's enemies- its never lost a war and was only pushed back significantly once in it's histroy.

They won with hardly any weapons at all against massive odds the day it became a nation. I'm sure these countries have no chance to defeat them in open battle. Thats why they are using the Cowards way of terrorism and striking indirectly.

The Israel enterprise was always about land and water.
Palestine was already inhabited by a variety of folks including Jews.The Zionoist plan was a Palestine for Jews only.All pretext for Israel's wars ended in the explusion on Non Jewish populations.
Water bieng the scarcest resourse in the middle east,Israel's ploicy makers eyed the headwaters of the Golan as well as south Lebanon's Litani river for decades.Below is an excerpt from a UN observer that served in south Lebanon under the 18 year Israeli occupation that resulted in over 20,000
deaths at the hands of the vaunted IDF.

Over the years the Israeli government has successfully cloaked their continued interest in South Lebanon in terms of security. But, for those who have been really paying attention, the bigger issue has always been about water. Jerusalem’s sustained vitality coupled with the Israelis’ continued encroachment of Palestinian land depends at the most basic level on future water access. Thus the attraction of South Lebanon, the Litani River and finally the retention of the Golan.
For a couple months in 1979-80 I was an unarmed military observer assigned to the multinational UN observer group assisting the recently-deployed, larger, and armed UN force in South Lebanon, UNIFIL. One of our priority patrol tasks as we cruised around the hard rock hills within the UN security zone was reporting on suspected or possible Israeli water diversion efforts. When I returned some six years later as the then chief of the same UN observer group in South Lebanon, the important patrol tasks again focused on protecting Lebanon’s water resources. Discussion of what the UN then knew regarding Israel’s water diversion and encroachments remain contentious even today and probably best not tabled here.
An interesting aside was the rather dramatic shift in the population within the UN area of operation largely as a result of the Israeli incursion during the intervening years. Simplistically the security challenge we confronted in 1979-80 was protecting the native Lebanese Shia from the fairly pervasive and certainly better armed Palestinian crowd who’d moved in having been displaced from Jordan during the dark days of September 1970, Black September. By my 1986 return the Palestinians were largely corralled and the restive native Shia were getting ever more militant with the oppressive Israeli occupation. I want to be clear: Israel’s ham-handed conduct in their illegal protracted occupation contributed significantly to the Shia threat now faced.
Watching 2006 summer’s dust-up with the latest Israelis move North was simultaneously remarkable and tragic. I noted how few factors had changed and how many more had simply stayed unmoved. I was mildly impressed (although hardly surprised) with HB’s ability to hand the IDF their kosher backside more than once. One great leveler to IDF superiority remains the inhospitable terrain found almost immediately across the ADL. Fighting success in South Lebanon demands dismounted infantry; the most inimical form of combat for the Israelis population. I did reaffirm my previous conviction that HB has broken the code on success against Israel.
Another outcome of this past summer’s shoot-em-up should have been the definitive debunking of the outside world’s long-held myth of the seeming invincibility of IDF prowess. Israel’s key defense is their air force. Unfortunately what drew world opprobrium was use of their use of that force. The IAF’s core competency of air-to-air superiority will probably never be tested again and bombing housing areas simply is no longer acceptable. The IDF is a good ground force made better by usually fighting an ill-organized group of rock throwing kids in the occupied areas. Up against a better armed more conventional opponent, the IDF is seen as no great shakes. An analogous NATO force, for example the Norwegians, would go through them like corn thru a goose. The IDF should thank God they have Arabs for enemies.
Further my conclusions of living within the Promised Land on three occasions remain constant: specifically that Israel must sustain external enemies for their own purposes. The central theme of Israel’s very existence has always been “the enemy at the gates”. The worst of all outcomes for Tel Aviv would have to respond to the outbreak of general regional peace. Inflation could not longer be rationalized by maintaining a marshal posture. US support in the form of our vital security assistance may well dry up. Public clamor to end conscription would result in spikes of unemployment, and the ingrained glue of being “besieged” which holds the diverse tribe together may quickly melt. No, Israel needs turmoil and regional conflict to breathe

The Jordanian Army is probably the best trained of all three. However, its king Abdullah(?) is very unlikely to stray from his father's (Hussein) peace pact with Israel. Jordan has learned better irrigation techniques from Israel and is making their desert bloom too.

The Egyptian Army is partially American trained. That is, if the officers will share the information that is imparted to them by their American trainers. The Arab mindset is that knowledge if power. The more information an officer has, the more important he becomes. Thus, information sharing is a cultural weak point for any Arab army. However, their equipment includes American hardware including the export version of the Abrams tank.

Easily, the most dangerous enemy is the Syrians. Why? Because of the three the Syrians are the most likely one to fight. The Syrians have ties with Iran and will, like the Russians did during the Cold War, use a proxy to fight Israel. In this case, it would be Hezbollah which in and of itself is funded by Iran. The Syrians can be beaten, as they were in '73, '67', '56 and '48, but at what price? Israel abhors casualties.

Explanation? The Syrians are about the only one out of that three that I'd take half-way seriously at this point in time.

In response to previous statements against Israel. Almost every nation in the world has been founded by taking land that doesn't or hasn't ever belonged to your people.

Whats wrong with taking land back that did belong to you at one time or another?
Here's an example....

A guy comes onto your property and builds some houses, then he tells you that he and the people living in those houses don't want you there anymore. You would fight back, but there are so many of them and they are armed so you just leave. Later on in your life you come back there with your family and drive the guy off his/your land. However the guy goes to the news and says "Oh no these horrible people came in and drove me off my land, now I have no where to stay." The media runs the story and somehow everyone believes the man, even though only years before you owned the land, it was yours and yours alone. So you put a fence around it, get some guard dogs, and perhaps hire some people on to help guard your property. One day the Man comes back to your land, and he fires rifles off in your properties direction, it kills several cows, and wounds one of your children. So, in retaliation you fire yours back, it kills one of his kids, that just so happened to be holding a rifle and shooting at you the day before. Again the man goes to the news, "Oh they killed one of my poor innocent children", "Oh my child never hurt anyone, nor would he". Again, the media spreads the story of how the child was killed, in "Cold" blood. Never mentioning that he in fact was just as guilty as his father who had attacked your land. The man starts all sorts of things with you, he is all the time killing your goats and cows. He says that is my land! I built a house and so did my families and friends their, therefore it is mine. You mention to him, "well didn't you originally come from north of here"? "Why don't you move back there, its only just a few miles from here anyways"? The man tells you then that you must die for insulting him in such a way, and that he will never give up till you are off his land!

Such goes with the story of the Jews and the Man of course would be the Palestinians.

I will not respond to any supposed videos of Israeli's killing children.
I will not respond to any propaganda.
I will not respond to any un-educated guesses into the matter.
I will not respond to any bigot comments.

Unless anyone has actually seen something with their own two eyes, please do not comment on it. Some of the comments I have seen on this page have been down right anti-semetic, and bear little truth to actual events.
Some of the other posts point to nothing other than someone saying, "I don't like Jews"! If you don't like us so be it, go brag about it on a Nazi Skinhead forum somewhere.

I may sound a little bit pissed, and yes you guessed totally right I am. I don't like it very much when people start to slander my People, my Homeland, or our Right to be there.

If anyone here honestly has a problem with that, then pack your bags and move out of your own country, before bashing another country. Especially those of us who are American, we chased the Native American's off and killed them by the thousands, and the most we can do is say "Oh sorry about that, here's a casino". We all live in land that has been someone's at one time or another.

However don't spread lies to support your cause, whatever it may be. If you actually posted a video you took, then hey more power to you.

I am just purely trying to understand why and how this is allowed to go on?

Oh lets bash Israel and the Jews....

You don't see me bashing Muslims, or even atheists for that matter, ask Seno. I may not agree with him on views of beliefs, but it's not like I hate atheists. However people clearly express hating Jews and Muslims and....every one is okay with it.

Something to think about.

__________________________________________________ ______________

Back to the topic however, I think Israel's biggest enemy is unseen. The same enemy that caused the nations in the west to dislike Arabic nations.

Hate.

Originally Posted by senojekips

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXq57XK2L0A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRQcTPIaETE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sdnyAgR4bo

There's plenty more if you want them.

Okay maybe I will respond to this because it is easily proven fake as all heck!

I guess the police officer that pulled me over one time committed a war crime, when he told me to stand in front of his vehicle too. It's standard precedure, to have someone being detained to stand in front of the vehicle, whether it's in the states or overseas. That way the officer or soldier has a good view over them while he calls in the information, or fills out something, or anything.

So what are soldiers and police officer just not supposed to have them stand anywhere now???

Perhaps the soldier should have asked them if they wanted in his pants.... since they have no where to stand.

Oh no......

Then it would have been sexual harassment.

Originally Posted by usinfantryMOS11c10

In response to previous statements against Israel. Almost every nation in the world has been founded by taking land that doesn't or hasn't ever belonged to your people.

Whats wrong with taking land back that did belong to you at one time or another?

On point one I agree but that does not justify the action of taking someone else's land and for the most part those nations have found ways of living with the people they dispossessed in equality.

As for part 2:
Based on your argument you have to:
1) Determine that Judaism was a racial entity and not a religion, if you only believe it is a religion then you are saying you would support the worlds Catholics moving to the Vatican and then evicting the citizens of Rome because they need more room.

2) If you believe Judaism is a racial identity then you need to be able to prove that the Jews that rolled into Palestine since the 1940s have a genetic link to those that were there thousands of years ago (which I understand via other links is not the case).

Further to this we have already discussed the problem of selective histories because even the territory that became the ancient kingdom of Israel was not always so, as history records that it was Canaanite land prior to Israel and who the hell knows what tribes and empires stomped through the region before that all would have a superior claim to the region using your logic.

Now as far the argument "Whats wrong with taking land back that did belong to you at one time or another?"

Does that mean you believe Hitler was right invading Poland as much of that land was Prussia aka part of Germany post 1873, was Hussein right to invade Kuwait after all that was part of Iraq prior to it being partitioned by the British?

As you can tell I am not a religious person I believe that all religions are nothing more than fairy tales dreamed up to control the masses through fear therefore the argument that "god gave it to you" carries no more weight than an IOU from the tooth fairy in my opinion (but of course that is only my opinion yours may differ).

Why doesn't anyone question all of the nations in the world then? It seems everyone's only interested in Israel doing it.