India, China seek to resolve boundary dispute - Page 3




 
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Boots
 
April 12th, 2005  
rajkhalsa
 
Yikes, I just realized I made a big typo in my post, which may have confused people. I meant:

...the Chinese claim to what later became Arunachal Pradesh (the area northeast of Bangladesh) is completely preposterous. At no time in history has that area fallen under control of, has ever been suzeran to, has ever paid tribute to, or even had cultural contact with any Chinese empire, ever.
April 12th, 2005  
MadeInChina
 
i agree, but why would we need that piece of land

anyways i never heard of chian claiming such land
April 12th, 2005  
Xion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by godofthunder9010
Xion or anyone, I'm curious about one thing. China claims a pretty sizable chunk of land just north of Bangladesh. One thing I would like to clarify: Has the PRC ever controlled that territory or are they just claiming it based on some old extinct Dynasty that control that territory? What is the basis of China's claims?
its none of those neither did they ever had control over that territory nor any extinct dynasty did. what happened was when india got independence in 1947, all the regions under british control came automatically india's territory, arunachal pradesh was under british rule. it was never under any chinese control or influence. their claim to it was a part of their expansionist policy. this was the reason that led to the 1962 border skirmish, the chinese did not have the capacity to attack the british as they were much powerful back in those days, as soon as they left india oppurtunistic china invaded


Quote:
Originally Posted by rajkhalsa
While the Chinese claim to Aksai Chin is somewhat makeable while making the great assumption that their claim to Tibet pre-invasion was legitimate
aksai chin was gifted to china by pakistan, india won't ever ever ever .. get aksai chin back as an extremely important tibetan highway passes through the region which is the heartline of that region
i completely agree with rajkhalsa's post, both aksai chin and arunachal pradesh were a part of india and never belonged to any chinese dynasty or control as they were under british control and when the british left, all the british territory was given to india
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Boots
April 12th, 2005  
rajkhalsa
 
Aksai Chin is not the part of Kashmir gifted by Pakistan. Aksai Chin is the area north and west of Leh district in Kashmir.

Click to maximize


The red part seperated from Aksai Chin is the territory Pak gifted
April 12th, 2005  
Xion
 
rajkhalsa i knew that the small area to the left of aksai chin was gifted by pakis to china, but i said that the entire region was gifted as i saw a news agency reporting it on TV yesterday
nice map btw, thanks for correcting me anyway

I edited the above map to indicate clearly what part was given by Pakistan to China

April 13th, 2005  
MadeInChina
 
ooo i thought u were talking about the area near burma

cool, didnt no china owned that too
April 13th, 2005  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadeInChina
ooo i thought u were talking about the area near burma

cool, didnt no china owned that too

Not quite right. That is the monster chunk of land that China says is theirs, but India controls it. That is what I was puzzling about more than anything. I don't see any basis for China to claim Arunachal Pradesh, and yet they do. If Made In China has no idea either, can we assume that this is a completely groundless claim?
April 13th, 2005  
Xion
 
Quote:
If Made In China has no idea either, can we assume that this is a completely groundless claim?
It is a baseless claim if they are claiming it on the basis of the extinct dynasty thing or some other crap
but, thats not the reason, from a strategic point of view Aksai Chin and the arunachal pradesh areas are extremely important regions, this was the same reason that lead to the 1962 skirmish
China's strategy has been to contain India on the south of himalayas and keep it engaged with pakistan, it doesn't want india to get an entry into the sensitive northern regions, especially because it is wary of indian influence in tibet might lead to an uprising there, and eventually breaking up of china (like U.S.S.R.), sinkiang to the north of tibet is an unstable region too
secondly, the madeinchina guy does not live in china and i don't think he's very well informed about that issue
If you see China's map recognised by chinese govt (not maps made by westerners), they show Arunachal pradesh as part of China
During wen jiabao's visit to india in the last 4 days, he presented the new boundary map to the indian PM which showed the state of Sikkim as a part of india and he accepted that Sikkim was a part of india. however the aksai chin and arunachal pradesh were still shown as part of china.
this dispute is the longest running border dispute in the world.
April 13th, 2005  
rajkhalsa
 
It's not even that. The Chinese claim to Arunachal was concocted to put pressure on India's claim to Aksai Chin, which is strategically important to China as a transportation corridor between E Turkestan and Tibet. That whole region is among the harshest climates in the world, and that's the only area China can build a road throguh.

The ostensible basis for the Chinese claim was that the McMahon line which makes the international border between India and Tibet from the Bhutan to Burma was formalized with the Tibetan government during the Simla conference. China, though she was part of the conference, later claimed that the demarcation was invalid, because Tibet was never independant.

(That Tibet acted as an independent state during the three-country India-Tibet-China conference with full knowlege and acceptance for China -- and that further, that the boundary demarcation was for the border between India and Tibet and had nothing to do with China are facts the Chinese conveniantly 'overlook' in their official pronouncements.)

The Chinese logic is, since Tibet was never independent, all treaties made with Tibet were invalid, and therefore the boundary with India was never made and China can claim as much as she wants, so she picked a random river and said 'this land up to this is in dispute'


Unlike Aksai Chin which is ethnically Tibetan, Arunachal Pradesh never was in contact with China, it indigenous inhabitants are Hindu and an offshoot of Tibetan Buddhist and have always been a part of India since time immemorial.

Similarly, the (now apparently former) Chinese non-recognition of Sikkim's merger with India is likewise completely out-of-their-mind bogus. Sikkim was subsidiary kingdom, like other Indian kingdoms, during British rule. After independence it became an Indian protectorate.

Massive grass-roots democratic movements in Sikkim demanded from the King that they join India as a full-fledged state, and a refferendum was held where they overwhelmingly (99.8%) voted to join with India, and they did.

BUT the Chinese refused to recognize India's "annexation" of Sikkim Why?? Well, the Chinese never exactly said.


In both cases, they know they have no right to claim it; the whole thing was a political ploy manufactured so that their forcefull invasion of Aksai Chin could be in the future bargained for against India.


An analogy: Your neighbor steals your lawnmower when you were away on vacation. You come back, realize its stolen and now are in a position to take it back. However, he then claims the shovel and snowblower in your posession that he is no position to take.

Months go by, and you see your neighbor using your lawnmower. Finally, in a gesture of "goodwill" he says he'll stop claiming your snowblower and shovel if you stop claiming the mower he stole.

Voila, his theivery is exchanged for his claims.

-Raj
April 13th, 2005  
Xion
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajkhalsa
An analogy: Your neighbor steals your lawnmower when you were away on vacation. You come back, realize its stolen and now are in a position to take it back. However, he then claims the shovel and snowblower in your posession that he is no position to take.

Months go by, and you see your neighbor using your lawnmower. Finally, in a gesture of "goodwill" he says he'll stop claiming your snowblower and shovel if you stop claiming the mower he stole.

Voila, his theivery is exchanged for his claims
simply awesome rajkhalsa, an awesome comparison, perfect!!! , man you should be the National Security Advisor for India!

On a different note have you heard about a guy called Brahma Chellaney?, he's a Professor of Strategic Studies at the Centre For Policy Research, New Delhi

I have seen him speak on News Channels in India, he's the best!, I always completely agree with his views and they are always the same what I think about. If you have some free time just check out this chat transcript with him http://www.rediff.com/chat/trans/0824brah.htm , its an old one when the BJP Govt. was in power, but anyways I completely comply with his views, let me know what you think.

Some of his other reports -
http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/may/31brahma.htm
http://www.rediff.com/news/2000/oct/11spec.htm
or just do a google search ... check out the results here >> Click Here