Originally Posted by RayManKiller3

There is no circumstantial excuse for killing 24 civillians (with rifles).... If he did it out of rage then he should still be prosecuted for killing them and 90 months is NOT fair judgement. In U.S if you did that you would face life sentence/death penalty depending on state, even if the lawyers convinced them you were "insane".

All they did was slap his wrist and said "be on your way. Good job out there soldier". Do you know how that makes the U.S looks to foriegners? How can accuse others of atrocity and not handling problems, if we don't do it to our own?

Are you saying that if Iraqis did that to us you would be fine with this?

Forget all of that, just answer this; What do you think his (and all those involved) punishment should be? This way I will know if you are specifically defending this incident or are just generalizing that circumstances must be taken into account.

Sure the guy "lost control", but that does not lift him from holding responsibility for his actions.

Right but, as others in this thread and I already have said, they may be "civilians" but they also may have been contributing to the insurgency through other means than direct fighting.

Also as I've already said, yes it is a crime, but I would rather have a lenient sentence than see another one of our men added to the 100,000+ already homeless on our streets. I'm not specifically defending this incident, I am merely an advocate of taking care of our own.

The way I see it, Not taking care of our own after all they've been through for our sakes would be the bigger crime. They did after all volunteer to fight for us, something most of American society would not do.

Originally Posted by lolwhassup

Right but, as others in this thread and I already have said, they may be "civilians" but they also may have been contributing to the insurgency through other means than direct fighting.

Also as I've already said, yes it is a crime, but I would rather have a lenient sentence than see another one of our men added to the 100,000+ already homeless on our streets. I'm not specifically defending this incident, I am merely an advocate of taking care of our own.

The way I see it, Not taking care of our own after all they've been through for our sakes would be the bigger crime. They did after all volunteer to fight for us, something most of American society would not do.

My hasn't the world come a long way from the days of "I was just following orders".

I take it your justification for this is that:

Saba Younis Salim, age 10, female
Noor Younis Salim, age 13, female
Asia Younis Salim, age 3, female
Zeinab Younis Salim, age 5, male
Mohammed Younis Salim, age unknown, child, male
Abdullah Waleed Abdulhameed, age 4, male.

Were supporting the insurgency?

Originally Posted by MontyB

My hasn't the world come a long way from the days of "I was just following orders".

I take it your justification for this is that:

Saba Younis Salim, age 10, female
Noor Younis Salim, age 13, female
Asia Younis Salim, age 3, female
Zeinab Younis Salim, age 5, male
Mohammed Younis Salim, age unknown, child, male
Abdullah Waleed Abdulhameed, age 4, male.

Were supporting the insurgency?

I was speaking generically in a war like this, not specifically on this incident.

The last thing I am going to say in this thread is that, It is easy for you to condemn from the stump when you haven't been in their boots. We should take care of our own before we worry about others.

Originally Posted by lolwhassup

I was speaking generically in a war like this, not specifically on this incident.

The last thing I am going to say in this thread is that, It is easy for you to condemn from the stump when you haven't been in their boots. We should take care of our own before we worry about others.

Here go take a look at their handy work...
http://haditha.org/photologue/galler...ims/index.html

Then come back and tell me these are people you want walking your streets or even flying your countries flag.

Originally Posted by MontyB

Here go take a look at their handy work...
http://haditha.org/photologue/galler...ims/index.html

Then come back and tell me these are people you want walking your streets or even flying your countries flag.

It ranks right up there with the worst atrocities of WWII. Atrocities for which men were hung.

People who would try to excuse it are little better. End of story.

One does wonder how those that did this, especially to the children are able to personally cope with their memories?

Watched a documentary on the whole incident last night and it is not nearly as clean cut as one would think.

And worst atrocities of WWII? Really? The only people who were hung were those of the axis forces. Not one person in Allied bomber command was hung during WWII and they WERE deliberately targeting civilians on many of their missions...AND...THEY KNEW IT! It seems we can pick and choose who is a bad guy for killing civilians when the media isn't there to broadcast it...yet these guys took a KIA, DID recieve fire, and "cleared the house" according to the intent that the SSG's PL directed. They acted within the ROE when they opened up on the car. Still, they should have stopped once they realized they had killed women and kids in the first house...at the same time there was still a threat that they had to deal with...To continue the assault or to stop and lose momentum....hard decision to make for anyone.

Easy to judge after the fact from behind a keyboard. I wish this was black and white...it's simply not. Yet, it seems that some on here prefer to speak in absolutes so...here goes...anyone who has no context for the situation these guys were in has no idea what they are talking about...end of story.

Originally Posted by che

One does wonder how those that did this, especially to the children are able to personally cope with their memories?

It is significantly easier than you think.

The fog of war now involves a blurry distinction between enemy fighters and civilians, and daily operations - house-to-house searches, roadblocks and vulnerable convoys, among others - in which soldiers anxiously encounter civilians. Nowadays, soldiers do several tours of duty in these difficult circumstances.

Originally Posted by che

One does wonder how those that did this, especially to the children are able to personally cope with their memories?

Ever watched the BBC documentary series on Auschwitz?
They interviewed members of Einsatz Gruppen and people who had worked in the camp.
The scary thing is, despite knowing what they did was wrong in every sense of the word, they still appeared "comfortable" with what they did, explaining that they were dealing with enemies of the state and "following orders".
Maybe this is how they cope with their memories, because if they accept they murdered innocents, they would no longer be able to cope.