Discussion about Palestine

[MontyB]

Palestinians clearly couldn't get into israel any more. However there are 1.2 million israeli arabs. some of whom I assume would be willing to act on behalf of the palestinians ( the failure of the palestinians to get the israeli arabs to identify with more with the palestinians than israel and act as well is another interesting issue)

I don't think it is all that difficult to understand, I would suspect that should they start rocking the boat they are more than likely going to find themselves in hot water and if you have a family to look after I imagine keeping quiet would be a priority, further to this I imagine a number of them support the Israeli cause which is not unusual when you look at the number of Jews, Russians, Dutch etc. that fought for the Germans during WW2.

All of things you mentioned - the torture, the military courts do happen, but I am not sure you can compare them to nazi germany.

What would you compare them to then, perhaps a third world dictatorship?

Another strand - what stops a rich arab billionaire buying up vast tracts of the privately owned land in israel as it comes on the commercial market in the same way that jewish american billionaires buy arab house in jerusalem?

The law stops them.

And I am also aware that the semi non violent demonstrations in the west bank haven't always worked and have frequently resulted in people going to jail, especially when people are protesting are land being seized.

which leads me back to suing in foreign courts regarding the fact that the military courts are clearly unfair to palestinians.

If they are not going to take notice of the hundreds of UN resolutions concerning their behavior then what do you reckon the chances are they will listen to foreign courts?

List of resolution:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

I can certainly see some advantages in a non-violent program being adopted along side the existing resistance as it would serve to disrupt Israeli foreign relations which would translate through to economic pressure and lets face it the USA just can't write cheques like they used to but I do not see any reason for the combat side of the Palestinian movement to do anything but improve because in the end the only way peace will eventually arrive is when the casualty rate of both sides becomes unsustainable.

 

[senojekips]

Yes, when you say Palestine is occupied, you have to show it's even a country.
else It's not occupied and whoever controls the area can do whatever they want.

The only place that may apply is possibly Antarctica. This was answered below.

Simply because the inhabitants of a region choose not to call it a country or nation does not negate the rights of the inhabitants to claim ownership.

Many of the former colonial states, New Zealand, Australia, Canada etc. are working toward addressing these issues constantly to come up with workable compromises."

The thought that Palestine was an empty land has long been known to be false.

Shimon Peres, President of Israel, in a May 1998 La Monde Diplomatique editorial titled "Why Israel needs a Palestinian state," wrote:
"When Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism, spoke of 'a people without a land' looking for 'a land without a people', he was not aware of the presence of an Arab population in Palestine or its future evolution."

 

[johnmacadam1]

you can sue in foreign courts for assets of a country. obviously this would have far more repercussions happening in the usa, than in a small minor country.

Also there are no restrictions on the sale and ownership of private land in israel. however private land represents only 6.5 % of land in israel. 80% of land is state owned and can only be leased

The reluctance of arab israelis to get involved may be related to their disadvantages status in society. However whilst the courts can be biased against them, large non violent demonstrations which are disruptive would gather attention both from internal and external peace groups and lawyers. 1000 people lying down chained in front of the knesset would be result in attention. the individuals would be arrested, but the ability to prosecute and give large sentences would be diminished

Israel perceives itself to be a western state with rule of law. Whilst they palestinians are really subject to it, israeli arabs are.
There is also political failure of israeli arabs to use their votes. They represent 20% of voters and israel's parliament generally correlates votes to seats - they (arab MKs don't have 20% of seats

 

[Peaceful]

The only place that may apply is possibly Antarctica. This was answered below.



The thought that Palestine was an empty land has long been known to be false.

Shimon Peres, President of Israel, in a May 1998 La Monde Diplomatique editorial titled "Why Israel needs a Palestinian state," wrote:
"When Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism, spoke of 'a people without a land' looking for 'a land without a people', he was not aware of the presence of an Arab population in Palestine or its future evolution."

I've just read that the Arabs said no to the 1947 2 stats proposal.

Peace can't be made with them.

 

[VDKMS]

I agree simply because the inhabitants of a region choose not to call it a country or nation does not negate the rights of the inhabitants to claim ownership.

Many of the former colonial states, New Zealand, Australia, Canada etc. are working toward addressing these issues constantly to come up with workable compromises.

And where are their official borders so one can know when to enter their territory? How far does the Palestinian "ownership" goes? Does it include Jordan, or parts of Lebanon or Syria or even Egypt? Who is the representative of that people? If he's chosen through democratic elections who is then entitled to vote when there are no clear borders?

But I'll make it easy for you. It's not about borders, nor is it about ownership it is about the jews (non muslims) who govern muslim land and that is not allowed. Every radical cleric teaches that in his mosque. The covenant of Hamas says so. It is written all over the place. It is even written in the Koran.
The Arabs don't care about the Palestinians, otherwise they would have helped the refugees who btw left because the Arabs told them to do so. Ever wondered why Turkey with a secular government supported Israel and now that they have an islamic government are anti Israel?

Wrong,... or have you never heard of the Palestinian National Authority.

You can deny the truth, but you can't disprove it. You are merely a Zionist stooge making up lies as you go along. You main problem being, that they are so easily disproved.

First you say there is no Palestine, then you say Palestinians are not a nation, irrespective of the fact that this has no bearing on the debate you have been shown to be wrong on both occasions.

Then why did the Palestinians call themselves Syrians until Arafat told them to use the word Palestinians? Thanks to Israel there is a PA and it's first leader was....a foreigner. An Egyptian is allowed to lead the Palestinians but a Jew is not. But the Egyptian was a muslem, so that is not a problem, the jew is not that's a big problem. It's a religious thing. Also the Oslo accords clearly state what both parties are allowed to do.
No one in the region of Palestine called themselves Palestinians until the arrival of the British who gave everyone living in the British mandate a Palestinian citizenship.

Bullsh!t!!! Don't talk drivel.
Many Jews and persons of Jewish descent (such as myself) and even Holocaust survivors can see the similarity between Zionism, particularly in Israel, and the policies of the Nazis. The one thing Zionists learned from the holocaust was how to emulate Nazi ethnocentric policy.

Hajo Meyer - Zionist Policy is Nazism

Of the 9 million Jews, 6 million were murdered during the holocaust and 3 million survived. One out of the 3 million is anti and you accept that as proof. I accept as proof the other 2.999.999.

And how far has that got them?


I think you are being somewhat naive I doubt a 5 year old Palestinian could ride a skateboard in Tel Aviv without either being arrested or shot.

Peaceful protests only work if the people you are protesting against need you in this case however all they want is you off your land and if they can achieve that without a fight all the better.

Essential the Israeli war is little more than a controlled land grab by a people who believe they are racially superior what could be more Nazi than that?

Wrong!

Ultimate Peace is a non-profit organisation teaching Ultimate Frisbee to disadvantaged children in areas of conflict - they visited Tel Aviv to teach the sport to over 140 Israeli and Palestinian children [MARC ALTMAN 2009 marcaltman.com]

Because you are a certifiable idiot I actually quoted the material,.... but if you want the link, here it is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

So Palestine exists,... Now what?

......but it had no Palestinians up until recently. Here's a good description of your Palestine : "Palestine was simply an outpost of the corrupt and decaying Turkish Ottoman Empire, a part of Greater Syria. It was not a country or a state in the manner of, say, an England or Germany at that time. It was simply a collection of villages that happen to exist within the geographical region known as Palestine. Although many Arabs did own their own homes, the majority were the poor "fellahin", who worked as hired hands for the landowners. There was no nationalism in the land, no feeling of belonging to a "people", loyalty was to the local clan or village. Arabs did not see themselves as "Palestinians" and often referred to their homeland as Southern Syria." (Layman's Guide to the Middle East Conflict)

Well,... Holocaust survivors can see it, I guess you just don't have enough knowledge on the subject to have an informed opinion.

correction, Holocaust survivor, without the "s"

The only place that may apply is possibly Antarctica. This was answered below.



The thought that Palestine was an empty land has long been known to be false.

Shimon Peres, President of Israel, in a May 1998 La Monde Diplomatique editorial titled "Why Israel needs a Palestinian state," wrote:
"When Theodore Herzl, the founder of Zionism, spoke of 'a people without a land' looking for 'a land without a people', he was not aware of the presence of an Arab population in Palestine or its future evolution."

It was empty. Read the reports of people who visited the land in the 19th century. You must know it because one of your ancesters lived there at that time. Read "The Innocents Abroad" by Mark Twain about his trip over there. It's on the internet.

 

[MontyB]

And where are their official borders so one can know when to enter their territory? How far does the Palestinian "ownership" goes? Does it include Jordan, or parts of Lebanon or Syria or even Egypt? Who is the representative of that people? If he's chosen through democratic elections who is then entitled to vote when there are no clear borders?

But I'll make it easy for you. It's not about borders, nor is it about ownership it is about the jews (non muslims) who govern muslim land and that is not allowed. Every radical cleric teaches that in his mosque. The covenant of Hamas says so. It is written all over the place. It is even written in the Koran.
The Arabs don't care about the Palestinians, otherwise they would have helped the refugees who btw left because the Arabs told them to do so. Ever wondered why Turkey with a secular government supported Israel and now that they have an islamic government are anti Israel?

You know in many ways your argument always cracks me up, you remind me of a 1950s Sci-Fi series where the aliens always have Western values, American ascents and always look like people in a mask.

You are fixated on ideas of borders, ownership and control yet this is not the way all nationalities or races work in fact in many parts of the world nationalities are a new concept to you this means that the land is up for grabs (A very colonial view but you are Belgian so not unexpected) and in the 1700-1800s this was seen as the way to grow empires but this is no longer the way it works.
What is now recognised is that people who have lived off a land and used it to provide for their own needs for generations "own" the land even without having "title" to the land.

So please try and move out of the age of empires and into the modern world.

As for the rest I don't care why people do or don't like Israel anymore than I don't care whether you do or don't like ice-cream, Arabs, Islam, Judaism, Christianity or Puppies it is an irrelevance to the discussions and in no way mitigates the fact that the right thing should be done by the Palestinians (and before you start I don't care what they call themselves we all know what is meant by the term Palestinian) to stop what is little more than modern European colonialism.

Here is a question for you, if tomorrow the UN decided to partition Israel to form a Christian state after all Christians have a historical tie to the region would Israel fight it or would they just accept a two state solution and give up the land they believe they "own"?

In the end you do not have to agree with the Palestinian cause or even support it to understand why they fight.

 

[senojekips]

I've just read that the Arabs said no to the 1947 2 stats proposal.

Peace can't be made with them.

You only just read it? Obviously you've never done any serious research into the matter or even looked at it.

Why should they agree to it?
If I stole everything you owned would you agree to just sign it all over to me, and allow me to treat you like an animal? I know that i wouldn't and I'll guarantee that you wouldn't either.

......but it had no Palestinians up until recently.

It was called Palestine in Roman times and similar names prior to that. By default people who live in Palestine are Palestinians, but,.... There were no certainly Israelis until 1948.

correction, Holocaust survivor, without the "s"

You really need to ask for a new Zionist controller, your present one is an idiot.
"Hedy Epstein is what some might see as a contradiction in terms: a survivor of the Holocaust and also a staunch advocate for the Palestinian people". I certainly doubt that they are the only two, taking into account the large number of Jewish Anti Zionist groups out there.

It was empty. Read the reports of people who visited the land in the 19th century. You must know it because one of your ancesters lived there at that time. Read "The Innocents Abroad" by Mark Twain about his trip over there. It's on the internet.

Well, if it was empty, who were the Palestinian neighbours that my Gt Grandfather lived with and employed, who were the inhabitants of all the towns and cities? Not withstanding the fact that the quote by Shimon Peres (and thousands of other people) acknowledges that fact.

You are a complete idiot, do you realise that?

 

[VDKMS]

You know in many ways your argument always cracks me up, you remind me of a 1950s Sci-Fi series where the aliens always have Western values, American ascents and always look like people in a mask.

You are fixated on ideas of borders, ownership and control yet this is not the way all nationalities or races work in fact in many parts of the world nationalities are a new concept to you this means that the land is up for grabs (A very colonial view but you are Belgian so not unexpected) and in the 1700-1800s this was seen as the way to grow empires but this is no longer the way it works.
What is now recognised is that people who have lived off a land and used it to provide for their own needs for generations "own" the land even without having "title" to the land.

So please try and move out of the age of empires and into the modern world.

Unfortunately your wish (because that's what it is) is not realistic and untrue. It is also very easily disproved.

When I want to sell something to someone in that part of land that he lived of for generations, how in the hell can I know to whom I have to pay import taxes or VAT. When there are no borders how in the hell can I know if I'm going from one piece of land to another?
There's another problem, only nations can join the UN, and nations have borders.
Borders are needed so someone knows where he is. So that he knows who is in charge. So that he knows what rules apply. And so that the nation (group of people) know where they have jurisdiction.
The Kurds live in four different nations (Turkey, Iraq, Iran and Syria). They can think or wish a Kurdish nationality but the reality is that all these Kurds have to abide by the laws of the country they live in. And those laws are not the same in every country. And a Kurd traveling from Iraq to Iran must cross a border even within the Kurdish community.
Without borders no jurisdiction, and without jurisdiction no law and order and without law and order you create chaos.

As for the rest I don't care why people do or don't like Israel anymore than I don't care whether you do or don't like ice-cream, Arabs, Islam, Judaism, Christianity or Puppies it is an irrelevance to the discussions and in no way mitigates the fact that the right thing should be done by the Palestinians (and before you start I don't care what they call themselves we all know what is meant by the term Palestinian) to stop what is little more than modern European colonialism.

Then I suggest we agree to disagree.

Here is a question for you, if tomorrow the UN decided to partition Israel to form a Christian state after all Christians have a historical tie to the region would Israel fight it or would they just accept a two state solution and give up the land they believe they "own"?

That's an hypothetical question because the UN can't do that.
When the UN partitioned the region Palestine they had jurisdiction over it, they don't have jurisdiction over Israel.
Christians don't claim land, Islam does. Christians are satisfied when they are able to visit their holy places. Muslims are not, they want to own it.

In the end you do not have to agree with the Palestinian cause or even support it to understand why they fight.

They fight because they are told to do so by radical clerics and even in school. That's the problem. There's to much religion involved. Religion and logic don't go hand in hand. Take away religion in that area and the case can be solved. What have they achieved in the last 100 years? Misery for their people, nothing else. I was born in Belgium and now live in Spain and maybe some day in Panama (I'm told it is a good country to retire to). So why won't Palestinians have a good live in a nation called Palestine? They already have control over most of their people. Stop fighting the Jews make a new peace agreement as stated in the Oslo accords and get a life. Tell the refugees to integrate (Jews and everyone else did), they are all born there. But no one is telling you that the refugees are not allowed to integrate in the Arab countries. Palestinians can have peace whenever they want it. They only have to drop their guns, stop listening to the rioters, roll up their sleeves and start building at their country. No whining or blaming but working.

It was called Palestine in Roman times and similar names prior to that. By default people who live in Palestine are Palestinians, but,.... There were no certainly Israelis until 1948.

Correction, the Romans called it province of Syria Palaestina but the people who lived their kept calling it Syria or Southern Syria. It was just a name change because two provinces were merged together. Jerusalem also got another name.

1209 BCE : The hieroglyph accompanying the name "Israel" indicates that it refers to a people, most probably located in the highlands of Samaria.

You really need to ask for a new Zionist controller, your present one is an idiot.
"Hedy Epstein is what some might see as a contradiction in terms: a survivor of the Holocaust and also a staunch advocate for the Palestinian people". I certainly doubt that they are the only two, taking into account the large number of Jewish Anti Zionist groups out there.

He's a minority among his peers.

Well, if it was empty, who were the Palestinian neighbours that my Gt Grandfather lived with and employed, who were the inhabitants of all the towns and cities? Not withstanding the fact that the quote by Shimon Peres (and thousands of other people) acknowledges that fact.

There were no Palestinian neighbours. The land your Gt Grandfather went to was "Wilayat Soorya" meaning "Province of Syria" in the Ottoman Empire.

Historians are divided on the size of the population on the eve of the British conquest of Palestine. The views range from 100,000 to 400,000, but most think the rate of the Arab-Muslim population was about 250,000.
Not exactly crowded is it. Belgium had, for almost the same area, more than 4 million people at that time. 250.000 people for 28.000km2 equals about 9 people per km2 (Now it is 421/km2), Belgium had 136! (now 341/km2)

You are a complete idiot, do you realise that?

I only realise that what you are saying is wrong.

 

[senojekips]

There were no Palestinian neighbours. The land your Gt Grandfather went to was "Wilayat Soorya" meaning "Province of Syria" in the Ottoman Empire.

That's really odd, as the few (two) letters we have, all refer to, "our time in Palestine".

So it was certainly recognised as Palestine by it's Jewish settlers, and it was most certainly occupied by a large native population, regardless of Zionist revisionist history.

 

[VDKMS]

That's really odd, as the few (two) letters we have, all refer to, "our time in Palestine".

So it was certainly recognised as Palestine by it's Jewish settlers, and it was most certainly occupied by a large native population, regardless of Zionist revisionist history.

The Jewish settlers called it Palestine (and Eretz Yisrael), but not the native population, they called it South Syria and called themselves Syrians.

Where do you get your informaton that "Palestine" (Province of Syria for the locals) had a large native population? Or is it another fabrication of you.

From "Encyclopedia of the Ottoman Empire" page 452/453 : "Palestine did not exist in the geographical imagination of the Ottomans. But due to its biblical association Christians continued to use that name for the land that today comprises the state of Israel and the Palestinian Territories. Jews referred to the same territory as Eretz Yisrael or the land of Israel."

 

[senojekips]

The Jewish settlers called it Palestine (and Eretz Yisrael), but not the native population, they called it South Syria and called themselves Syrians.

Where do you get your informaton that "Palestine" (Province of Syria for the locals) had a large native population? Or is it another fabrication of you.

From "Encyclopedia of the Ottoman Empire" page 452/453 : "Palestine did not exist in the geographical imagination of the Ottomans. But due to its biblical association Christians continued to use that name for the land that today comprises the state of Israel and the Palestinian Territories. Jews referred to the same territory as Eretz Yisrael or the land of Israel."

You have been told all of this before haven't you?

You are trolling again. One minute there has never been a place called Palestine then there is, but only when you chose it to be so.

Look, Just give up you constant lying.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just a few quick details about the "empty land" of Palestine. The table does not display well here, but you can see the original here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Palestine

According to Alexander Scholch, Palestine (that allegedly mythical place that has never existed)in 1850 had about 350,000 inhabitants, 30% of whom lived in 13 towns; roughly 85% were Muslims, 11% were Christians and 4% Jews[8]


Qazas Number of
Towns and
Villages Number of Households Muslims Christians Jews Total 1 Jerusalem
Jerusalem 1 1,025 738 630 2,393
Countryside 116 6,118 1,202 - 7,320 2 Hebron
Hebron 1 2,800 - 200 3,000
Countryside 52 2,820 - - 2,820 3 Gaza
Gaza 1 2,690 65 - 2,755
Countryside 55 6,417 - - 6,417 3 Jaffa
Jaffa 3 865 266 - 1,131
Ludd . 700 207 - 907
Ramla . 675 250 - 925
Countryside 61 3,439 - - 3,439 4 Nablus
Nablus 1 1,356 108 14 1,478
Countryside 176 13,022 202 - 13,224 5 Jinin
Jinin 1 656 16 - 672
Countryside 39 2,120 17 - 2,137 6 Ajlun
Countryside 97 1,599 137 - 1,736 7 Salt
Salt 1 500 250 - 750
Countryside 12 685 - - 685 8 Akka
Gaza 1 547 210 6 763
Countryside 34 1,768 1,021 - 2,789 9 Haifa
Haifa 1 224 228 8 460
Countryside 41 2,011 161 - 2,171 10 Nazareth
Nazareth 1 275 1,073 - 1,348
Countryside 38 1,606 544 - 2,150 11 Tiberias
Tiberias 1 159 66 400 625
Countryside 7 507 - - 507 12 Safad
Safad 1 1,295 3 1,197 2,495
Countryside 38 1,117 616 - 1,733

Note: these figures list "Muslims" who I think we can safely say are Palestinian Arabs seeing the figures given are for Palestine. (Which has never existed)

 

[Peaceful]

You have been told all of this before haven't you?

You are trolling again. One minute there has never been a place called Palestine then there is, but only when you chose it to be so.

Look, Just give up you constant lying.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just a few quick details about the "empty land" of Palestine. The table does not display well here, but you can see the original here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Palestine

Note: these figures list "Muslims" who I think we can safely say are Palestinian Arabs seeing the figures given are for Palestine. (Which has never existed)

Before Islam and Jesus Christ, there was Israel..

2000 years before 'palestine' was invented.

 

[VDKMS]

You have been told all of this before haven't you?

You are trolling again. One minute there has never been a place called Palestine then there is, but only when you chose it to be so.

Look, Just give up you constant lying.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just a few quick details about the "empty land" of Palestine. The table does not display well here, but you can see the original here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Palestine

Note: these figures list "Muslims" who I think we can safely say are Palestinian Arabs seeing the figures given are for Palestine. (Which has never existed)

Even a higher estimate of 350.0000 (I told you the views range from 100.000 - 400.000) is not "crowded", it is still 10 times less than Belgium had around the same period.

You seem pretty confused by the term Palestine. It is very simple though. The locals didn't use it. For the muslims who lived there it didn't exist it was Southern Syria. And it is exactly the (so called) locals who now use that name.

 

[senojekips]

Even a higher estimate of 350.0000 (I told you the views range from 100.000 - 400.000) is not "crowded", it is still 10 times less than Belgium had around the same period.

You seem pretty confused by the term Palestine. It is very simple though. The locals didn't use it. For the muslims who lived there it didn't exist it was Southern Syria. And it is exactly the (so called) locals who now use that name.

We all know that you are lying again or just being deliberately obtuse. You exact statement was:

It was empty. Read the reports of people who visited the land in the 19th century. You must know it because one of your ancesters lived there at that time.

One minute you state that it is "Empty" next minute it has a population of 350,000 people. Make up your mind,.... and incidentally he population of Belgium has nothing to do with whether Palestine was empty or not.

Palestine was then, and Palestine is now, regardless of who called it what, at whatever stage. What did the Eskimos call it?

Bye bye Troll

 

[Peaceful]

Palestine was then, and Palestine is now

Please provide a proof there was a 'palestinian' nation.

Else, 'palestinian' was invented in 1964 by the Arabs.

 

[senojekips]

Please provide a proof there was a 'palestinian' nation.

Else, 'palestinian' was invented in 1964 by the Arabs.

Read the posts it's all already there. It might also pay you to read what a "nation" is.

But,... seeing you are asking,...

Palestinian population is the same pre historic population that lived in that land for thousands of years. Both science and history proved that. While Jewish stealth of land was based only on some biased religious scriptures which do not count as reliable historical sources. Until our day there is no real evidence of the so called kingdom of Israel on Palestinian lands.

There have been Palestinians for at least 2500 years. They were first mentioned by the Greek historian, Herodotus. Certainly they did not suddenly appear just before Herodotus visited.
What is also important from his writings is he mentions no people who could conceivably be the Biblical Jews. He also lists peoples practicing circumcision. There is no one resembling Hebrews, Judeans, Israelites or anything remotely resembling the biblical Jews.

Results of a DNA study by geneticist Ariella Oppenheim appears to match historical accounts that Arab Israelis and Palestinians, together as the one same population, represent modern "descendants of a core population that lived in the area since prehistoric times", religiously first Christianized then largely Islamized, and all eventually culturally Arabized.

There is no single evidence from reliable sources that any Jewish civilization existed on Palestinian land. There is also no Archeological evidence! The only source Jews rely on is from religious scriptures. Israel has been desperately digging for the so called temple under Muslim mosque for over 40 years without finding one single trace! They were even caught trying to fake it: (Now isn't that so typical)?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6753063/
http://www.cbc.ca/arts/story/2004/12/27/…

Judaism is religion. The followers of Judaism can accept or leave Judaism. If any Jew converted to another religion he will no longer be a Jew! Does that mean he lost this "historical right" to the land? If any person from any origin converted to Judaism, does that mean he magically developed this "historical right" to Palestine? It should be noted that many Jewish tribes converted to Christianity and Islam! Could Palestinians reclaim their looted homes if they all made a mass conversion to Judaism?

Muslims and Arabs never expelled any Jew from Palestine and there never was any Jewish population transfer during the Islamic and Arabic rule of Palestine. Not even one single Arab or Muslim replaced any Jew! So if it is true that Palestinians invaded Palestine or "Israel", where were the Jews when that happened then?

Prior to the establishment of Israel, Muslims, Christians, and Jews referred to themselves as Palestinians and not Israelis. At that time no one claimed any exclusive right to Palestine.

Before Jewish immigration was financially encouraged by Jewish agency, Jews made 1.7% of population in Palestine. Non-Jewish percentage was 98.3 %
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsou…

Many Jewish historians like Arthur Koestler in his book "The Thirteenth Tribe" traced the origin of majority of Jews today which turned out to be from Khazaria. They are new convert Jews who for political purpose chose Judaism:
http://www.khazaria.com/

An invention called 'the Jewish people: http://www.haaretz.com/an-invention-called-the-jewish-people-1.240298

Even Jewish "historians" mention Palestine a long, long time before your imaginary 1964 guess. Note the date,..... (you can get Cartman to translate the rest of it for you)

Had the Zionist leadership admitted the existence of an indigenous people, then they would have been obliged to explain how they intended to displace them. To disprove this baseless myth, let's quote Ben-Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister) who stated as early as 1918 that "Palestine is not an empty country". According to Shabtai Teveth (one of Ben-Gurion's official biographers), Ben-Gurion stated in an article published in 1918 that:

"Palestine is not an empty country . . . on no account must we injure the rights of the inhabitants."​

​

The problem with Jewish revisionist history is that too many have written too much trying to claim as much as they can, and it just falls apart under anything but the most cursory examination?

Like many religions, Jews have looked at the existing evidence and written their scriptures to fit around it.

 

[BritinBritain]

Please provide a proof there was a 'palestinian' nation.

Else, 'palestinian' was invented in 1964 by the Arabs.

What a load of bollocks, my Dad was in Palestine just after WW2, he was asked to join the Palestine Police, and Britain was mandated to govern Palestine in, if I remember correctly, 1922.

 

[Cartman]

Read the posts it's all already there. It might also pay you to read what a "nation" is.

But,... seeing you are asking,... Even Jewish "historians" mention Palestine a long, long time before your imaginary 1964 guess. Note the date,..... (you can get Cartman to translate the rest of it for you)

[/INDENT]The problem with Jewish revisionist history is that too many have written too much trying to claim as much as they can, and it just falls apart under anything but the most cursory examination?

Like many religions, Jews have looked at the existing evidence and written their scriptures to fit around it.

haha oh my god you are so stupid
those "palestinians" arent palestinians! you are talking about Philistines which were our enemy during the tora wars. they have been gone from the world for along time, way before the islamic religion even existed. and please tell me how could there be any palestinians if the islamic religion wasnt even born? or the roman havent called the land palestine yet?

 

[senojekips]

haha oh my god you are so stupid
those "palestinians" arent palestinians! you are talking about Philistines which were our enemy during the tora wars. they have been gone from the world for along time, way before the islamic religion even existed. and please tell me how could there be any palestinians if the islamic religion wasnt even born? or the roman havent called the land palestine yet?

And exactly where did the name "Palestine" come from? If I'm so stupid why does a Jewish historian state that this text concerns Palestine? You also neglected Ben Gurion's mention of Palestine. As I said too many Jewish "historians" have made up too many stories and like all fairy stories they just don't concur.

You are making up lies again aren't you Truth minimiser? Not only are you a stupid and a liar, you have been caught out, numerous times.
You are not a very good Jew are you, I see you are not shy to desecrate your own Shabbat. LOL

 

[Peaceful]

What a load of bollocks, my Dad was in Palestine just after WW2, he was asked to join the Palestine Police, and Britain was mandated to govern Palestine in, if I remember correctly, 1922.

Yes, palestinian the land..

But it's not a NATION.