Trump said that there was a mass fraud in the elections by the Democrats,much more than they did in 1960 in Chicago .
Trump never talked about cyber fraud by the Democrats ,he said that the Democrats did their usual tricks as making dead people voting .
What happened or did not happen was NOT the business of the Cyber Security and Infrastructure Security Agency .
The Democrats did not use Cyber criminality to falsify the outcome of the elections .
Thus the whole thing was not the business of CISA .
FYI : Cyber Security is about preventing things as hacking of computers, not about preventing the transformation of ballots for Trump into ballots for Biden .
What was the task of CISA was to prevent Iran from interfering in the US elections .Which it did not .

Originally Posted by lljadw

Trump said that there was a mass fraud in the elections by the Democrats,much more than they did in 1960 in Chicago .
Trump never talked about cyber fraud by the Democrats ,he said that the Democrats did their usual tricks as making dead people voting .
What happened or did not happen was NOT the business of the Cyber Security and Infrastructure Security Agency .
The Democrats did not use Cyber criminality to falsify the outcome of the elections .
Thus the whole thing was not the business of CISA .
FYI : Cyber Security is about preventing things as hacking of computers, not about preventing the transformation of ballots for Trump into ballots for Biden .
What was the task of CISA was to prevent Iran from interfering in the US elections .Which it did not .

I think you missed the "and" between the words "Cyber" and "Infrastructure" as it assigns them two separate tasks, now if you look at their mission statement it says...

Mission

Lead the National effort to understand and manage cyber and physical risk to our critical infrastructure.

it also points out the separation between cyber and pysical risk and what could be a greater risk to the infrastructure of a democracy than its citizens ability to vote without interference.


The reality is that it was a "clean" result that Trump lost, time to move on and if he wants to run again in 2024.


However, if he has "genuine" concerns about aspects of the election then he is well within his rights to question them but given the complete lack of evidence to support his claims and lets face it he was always going to get his panties in a bunch over postal ballots as that was his fall back plan for losing the election (stack the supreme court and then try and find something to get the case heard by them).



Personally, I think he should drop the petulent child act and start packing his bags.

Originally Posted by MontyB

I think you missed the "and" between the words "Cyber" and "Infrastructure" as it assigns them two separate tasks, now if you look at their mission statement it says...

it also points out the separation between cyber and pysical risk and what could be a greater risk to the infrastructure of a democracy than its citizens ability to vote without interference.


The reality is that it was a "clean" result that Trump lost, time to move on and if he wants to run again in 2024.


However, if he has "genuine" concerns about aspects of the election then he is well within his rights to question them but given the complete lack of evidence to support his claims and lets face it he was always going to get his panties in a bunch over postal ballots as that was his fall back plan for losing the election (stack the supreme court and then try and find something to get the case heard by them).



Personally, I think he should drop the petulent child act and start packing his bags.

In Georgia (Floyd county ) thousands of ballots (majority pro Trump ) have been found back : ''one '' had forgotten to count them . The responsible manager had to resign .
If this happens in Georgia, it happened also in other states, that proves that the director of CISA was wrong to call the 2020 elections the most save in history .

Originally Posted by lljadw

In Georgia (Floyd county ) thousands of ballots (majority pro Trump ) have been found back : ''one '' had forgotten to count them . The responsible manager had to resign .
If this happens in Georgia, it happened also in other states, that proves that the director of CISA was wrong to call the 2020 elections the most save in history .

2500 uncounted votes to date out of 145 million votes nationwide (5 million in Georgia) not all of which (perhaps not even the majority) were Trump votes, I am still prepared to accept that is a low margin of error.
Still lets not get bogged down in reality and I am allegedly a nice guy so let's give all 2500 to Trump now he only loses by 11000 votes, keep digging, who knows 5 more finds like that an he will only lose by a few hundred, hell 6 more finds and he will win the state but still lose the election by 50 electoral college votes.

To quote the Mayor of Philadelphia, it is time to put the big boy pants on and concede.

Originally Posted by MontyB

2500 uncounted votes to date out of 145 million votes nationwide (5 million in Georgia) not all of which (perhaps not even the majority) were Trump votes, I am still prepared to accept that is a low margin of error.
Still lets not get bogged down in reality and I am allegedly a nice guy so let's give all 2500 to Trump now he only loses by 11000 votes, keep digging, who knows 5 more finds like that an he will only lose by a few hundred, hell 6 more finds and he will win the state but still lose the election by 50 electoral college votes.

To quote the Mayor of Philadelphia, it is time to put the big boy pants on and concede.

It is not a question of who won, or if Trump lost because of fraud : it is a fact that there was fraud , What happens in Floyd county was fraud, thus the director of CISA was wrong to say that the elections were very safe ,meaning : that there was no fraud .
It was not an error in Floyd county, but fraud .Someone had decided not to count 25000 votes of which the majority were Trump votes .
Besides : CISA was created to prevent illegal foreign intervention,not to prevent fraud by US organisations .
There was foreign intervention in 2016 during the campaign, which was legal, not only by Russia, but also by France,UK, Germany ,but there are no proofs that Russian cyber criminals tried to falsify the 2016 election outcome by hacking government
computers .
The director of CISA had no business with what happened in Floyd county and Philadelphia, and in Nevada, etc...
The only thing he could say was that there were no attempts from outside the US to falsify the results . He can not say : the Democrats have not tried to falsify the outcome .

Originally Posted by lljadw

It is not a question of who won, or if Trump lost because of fraud : it is a fact that there was fraud , What happens in Floyd county was fraud, thus the director of CISA was wrong to say that the elections were very safe ,meaning : that there was no fraud .
It was not an error in Floyd county, but fraud .Someone had decided not to count 25000 votes of which the majority were Trump votes .
Besides : CISA was created to prevent illegal foreign intervention,not to prevent fraud by US organisations .
There was foreign intervention in 2016 during the campaign, which was legal, not only by Russia, but also by France,UK, Germany ,but there are no proofs that Russian cyber criminals tried to falsify the 2016 election outcome by hacking government
computers .
The director of CISA had no business with what happened in Floyd county and Philadelphia, and in Nevada, etc...
The only thing he could say was that there were no attempts from outside the US to falsify the results . He can not say : the Democrats have not tried to falsify the outcome .

And there currently there is no verification that the 2500 votes found are Trump votes, they might all be Biden votes so perhaps Republicans tried to falsify the outcome.

Alternatively and this I suspect is the most likely, they are 2500 missed votes that will be split between Trump and Biden and no one is trying to falsify the outcome.
Ockham's Razor strikes again.

No : 2500 votes(1650 Trump votes and 850 Biden votes ) disappeared in a state where Biden won with 12000 votes .
There have no 2500 votes (1650 for Biden and 850 for rump ) disappeared in Massachusetts,where Biden won with more than 60 % of the votes .
What happened in Floyd county is a clear case of fraud .
Trump did not protest against the outcome in Massachusetts,or New York, or California,where Biden won with 60 % of the votes .
Even the Democratic Snopes admits the case,and AP ( also Democratic ) said the following day that a second incident happened in another county of Georgia .
All US elections are swarming with fraud ,more than the European elections.
2,75 million voters are registered in several states and can thus vote twice,or more .
The 1960 elections were notorious frauding ,because everything depended on the outcome of Illinois,and the outcome of Illinois depended on the outcome of Chicago,where mayor Daley ordered the dead to vote . And Kennedy won .
In 2012 2 Iranians ,who were not US citizens,succeeded yet to vote 5 and 7 times in Illinois, were caught and condemned to prison .

I am sorry but your argument makes little sense and I suspect are based on blog journalism or Trumps twitter feeds but hey I am a reasonable guy lets give Trump 2000 votes in all 50 states to compensate for "missing" votes, it changes nothing.
There were 145 million votes cast if we assume every state has 2000 "dodgy" votes for Biden then it equates to 0.07% which is statistically unimportant when the margin of error in most cases is 3.5%.


Basically what you are arguing is that the Titanic wasnt sunk by the massive hole in its side after hitting an iceberg but rather someone left a shower running and forgot to take the plug out.

Originally Posted by MontyB

I am sorry but your argument makes little sense and I suspect are based on blog journalism or Trumps twitter feeds but hey I am a reasonable guy lets give Trump 2000 votes in all 50 states to compensate for "missing" votes, it changes nothing.
There were 145 million votes cast if we assume every state has 2000 "dodgy" votes for Biden then it equates to 0.07% which is statistically unimportant when the margin of error in most cases is 3.5%.


Basically what you are arguing is that the Titanic wasnt sunk by the massive hole in its side after hitting an iceberg but rather someone left a shower running and forgot to take the plug out.

The discussion is not about who won,not about if the fraud changed anything, but about the fact that there was fraud : in Georgia at least ,at least, 2 cases.At least,because the recount dodged the fact that there was fraud .
The recount in Georgia was needed ,not because the result was that narrow, but because there were,confirmed, claims that there was fraud .
And, the proposal to give Trump 2000 additional votes in every state,is wrong,
Because
there were no claims about fraud in every state,but about fraud in a few states that decided the outcome .No one has said that there was fraud in NY or in California or Massachusetts,where Biden won easily ,or in Wyoming where Trump won easily ,but there were claims about fraud in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Arizona,where 4 years ago Trump won narrowly and when these states had a GOP governor, now he lost ,while these states have a Democratic administration .
There has been anti-Trump fraud in Georgia, with a GOP governor, thus one should not refuse to investigate the claims that here was fraud in Michigan,governed by the Democrats : Detroit is since decades in the hands of the Democrats.So is Chicago ,and curiously (?)fraud happens always in such cities .
In 2004 the Democrats also claimed that they lost because of fraud, although there was a big GOP victory .

Originally Posted by lljadw

The discussion is not about who won,not about if the fraud changed anything, but about the fact that there was fraud : in Georgia at least ,at least, 2 cases.At least,because the recount dodged the fact that there was fraud .
The recount in Georgia was needed ,not because the result was that narrow, but because there were,confirmed, claims that there was fraud .
And, the proposal to give Trump 2000 additional votes in every state,is wrong,
Because
there were no claims about fraud in every state,but about fraud in a few states that decided the outcome .No one has said that there was fraud in NY or in California or Massachusetts,where Biden won easily ,or in Wyoming where Trump won easily ,but there were claims about fraud in Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Arizona,where 4 years ago Trump won narrowly and when these states had a GOP governor, now he lost ,while these states have a Democratic administration .
There has been anti-Trump fraud in Georgia, with a GOP governor, thus one should not refuse to investigate the claims that here was fraud in Michigan,governed by the Democrats : Detroit is since decades in the hands of the Democrats.So is Chicago ,and curiously (?)fraud happens always in such cities .
In 2004 the Democrats also claimed that they lost because of fraud, although there was a big GOP victory .

I think you are missing the point, IF and it is a big if there was any electoral fraud it was done on such a small scale that it made no difference to the outcome of the election.

So far other than a few Trump anecdotes about "massive" fraud there has been no substantial evidence to validate any fraud and given that most if not all state officials (both Democrat and Republican) seem happy to accept the result as do the courts I suspect the December 8th deadline to certify the results will be met everywhere except in Trump's mind.