Best Army Commander of the WW2 Allies - Page 2




View Poll Results :Which Allied General/Field Marshall Outshone the Rest??
Field Marshal Bernard Law Viscount Montgomery (United Kingdom) 5 13.16%
General George Smith Patton (United States of America) 14 36.84%
Marshal of Soviet Union Georgii K. Zhukov (Soviet Union) 9 23.68%
Field Marshal Gustaf Mannerheim (Finland) 2 5.26%
General of the Army Dwight David Eisenhower (United States of America) 8 21.05%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

 
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December 9th, 2004  
A Can of Man
 
 
Monty, I think was pretty good, but I feel that Patton was simply exceptional.
December 9th, 2004  
Bellerophon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiejohn
George Patton really worried the Germans.

He had more flair and flexibility in attack than Monty.

Sorry Monty fans.
<Patton really worried the Germans>Says who?I've seen this in hollywood movies,but do you have a source?
December 9th, 2004  
Doppleganger
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaggydog
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiejohn
George Patton really worried the Germans.

He had more flair and flexibility in attack than Monty.

Sorry Monty fans.
<Patton really worried the Germans>Says who?I've seen this in hollywood movies,but do you have a source?
I think the Germans were far more worried about what was coming from the East to be honest. Patton was a very good operational armor commander but then so was Bradley. I think Patton's influence is often overstated.
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December 9th, 2004  
Anya1982
 
 

Topic: good leader


Intelligence and timing is the best force on attack and defence.........you can't just barge in and take..........you need to do back up history work.

Any good leader will know this.

This is what winston was good at.................plus he was a real leader fighting for what the real cause was at the time.

I don't think any one can be compared to good old winston
December 9th, 2004  
Anya1982
 
 

Topic: leaders


The aggressors

Adolf Hitler - Nazi dictator of Germany (1933-45), planned and started world war 2, committed suicide at the end of the war

General Hideki Tojo - Prime minister of Japan (October 1941 - July 1944). With a long militarist tradition, Japan became extremely militarist and aggressive in the 1930s and was practically governed by military leaders. Tojo, an aggressive army general, became minister of war in July 1941 and prime minister in October 1941. After a short attempt to improve relations with the US failed, he ordered to go to war and attack Pearl Harbor in December 1941. He gradually took more ministerial roles, and in Feb. 1944 also made himself the commander in chief, like Adolf Hitler did. When he realized that Japan was going to lose the war he resigned. The military continued to control Japan until the end of world war 2, which came when the emperor Hirohito which was until then passive, ordered to surrender in order to prevent further inevitable destruction of Japan. After the war Tojo was executed for his responsibility to Japan's war crimes.

Benito Mussolini, was the prime minister of Italy (1922-1943). A former journalist, he went to politics and formed the fascist party, whose ideology, Fascism, called for a one-party state, total obedience, patriotic nationalism, and aggressive militarism. The ideology and its implementation in Mussolini's Italy influenced Adolf Hitler's own ideology, Nazism, which was a combination of fascism with extreme racism. Initially Mussolini led a right-wing coalition, but later Italy became a one party state. His treatment of unemployment made Mussolini popular, but the military aggression of fascism led to its failure. Mussolini was eager to demonstrate the "strength" of his regime by invading weaker neighbors. In 1935 he invaded and occupied the peaceful Ethiopia from Italy's nearby colony in east africa. In 1936, the two fascist dictators, Hitler and Mussolini, signed an alliance. In 1939 he invaded and occupied his small neighbor Albania, and Mussolini then enhanced his alliance with Hitler to a full military alliance. Mussolini knew that his military was not very effective, but when the germans defeated the french and british forces in mid 1940 he thought it was safe enough for him to attack Britain and the collapsing France too and declared war, and in October 1940 he also invaded Greece, and was repelled. Mussolini had a million soldiers in Libya, and he sent them to attack the small british force in Egypt. The italian navy and air force attacked british ports and shipping in the Mediterranean, from Gibraltar in the west to Haifa (Israel) in the east. Despite its numerical strength and the fact that british forces in the mediterranean were greatly outnumbered and very stretched, the italian military could not defeat them anywhere, and was severely beaten by the british, and simply had to call for the help of the much more capable germans. Even with german help, the british forces only lost their positions in Greece and kept fighting fiercely from their island bases in Malta, Gibraltar, and in north africa. Mussolini's italy became a german puppet, and even sent troops to participate in Germany's invasion of Russia. Eventually, british and american forces eliminated the italian and german forces in north africa and followed in July 1943 with an invasion of Sicily in south Italy. It was clear that Italy was losing the war, so several days after the invasion Mussolini was replaced and arrested in a remote mountain castle. Hitler sent commandos to rescue his friend from captivity. In april 1945, when german defence in north Italy collapsed, Mussolini was captured by italian partisans and executed .
December 9th, 2004  
Anya1982
 
 

Topic: leaders 2


The defenders
Winston Churchill kept warning of the nazi danger in pre-war years. He was elected prime minister of Great Britain after the total collapse of the appeasement policy of his predecessor Neville Chamberlain. Chamberlain failed to understand that aggressors like Hitler can not be appeased. Churchill became prime minister on May 10, 1940, at the same day when the german blitzkrieg invasion of France began. After the quick collapse of the french military, Britain itself was under a threat of a german amphibious invasion, and was attacked by the full force of the german Luftwaffe. It was also under a maritime siege by the german U-boat submarines. At these very difficult and dangerous times, Churchill, "the british lion", excelled as a wartime leader. His fighting spirit raised the morale of the british people. He also forged a strong alliance with the US. Churchill is one of the main world war 2 leaders, and one of the most prominent national leaders in history.

Joseph Stalin was the very brutal communist dictator of Russia (1928-1953). In the years before world war 2 Stalin murdered or imprisoned almost all of Russia's senior military officers, and millions of other russian citizens, in a paranoid and unprecedented wave of political terror. This clearly weakened Russia and further encouraged Hitler to attack it. The pre-war pacifist strategy, military weakness, and anti-communism of Britain and France led Stalin in august 1939 to decide that making a deal with Hitler is a better way to protect Russia from Hitler than making an alliance with Britain and France against him. As part of the deal Russia invaded half of Poland after Hitler started world war 2 by invading Poland. In june 1941, after conquering the rest of europe, Hitler did what he promised for 18 years and invaded Russia. In addition to the great weakness caused by the absence of experienced senior officers because of Stalin's political murders, Stalin further damaged the russian military's ability to fight by first obsessively ignoring all the intelligence warnings of the incoming german invasion, and later by obsessively enforcing a rigid and very wasteful defensive strategy which helped the german military to achieve tremendous victories in the summer of 1941 and brought the germans all the way to Moscow. Only then Stalin realized that he must allow his generals to fight the war more professionally, not obsessively. He made the brilliant general Zhukov his top military advisor and also sent him to command the forces directly in key battles. This finally allowed the huge russian military to exploit its full potential and succeed. After the war ended, Stalin's horrible political terror quickly returned and continued until his death

Anecdote: In 1975-2003 the brutal iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein used Stalin as his role model of "a successful dictator". Saddam said he read many books about Stalin and learned from them.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt, president of the United States of America (1933-1945) initially followed a very strong political demand to remain neutral and isolate the country from foreign wars, but he realized that the nazi aggression was a global threat and the total opposite to the values of democracy and freedom, and persuaded the Congress to allow selling weapons to Britain and France, later declaring that the US will become the "arsenal of democracy". In may 1941, when german expansion and its attacks on british shipping to the US increased, he declared a state of national emergency, and realistically assumed that US forces will eventually have to participate in fighting against nazi Germany. When germany invaded russia, he extended the military aid to russia too, and enormous amounts of american military equipment and material were transferred to Russia during the war, allowing the russian military industry to focus on mass production of the main weapon systems and ammunition

Despite the strong sympathy of the american public in support of Britain and against nazism, only an attack on the US could persuade the american public to go to war. The attack eventually came from the opposite direction when Japan surprise attacked the US naval and air bases in Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, in December 7, 1941. The destructive surprise attack ended american isolationism and the US joined the war and allied with Britain and Russia to defeat the aggressors axis of nazi Germany, militarist Japan, and fascist Italy. The mighty american industry went into full war production effort which dwarfed those of both allies and enemies, allowing the relatively small US military forces to rapidly grow to a mighty force, and defeat Japan and help Britain and Russia defeat Germany and Italy. President Roosevelt died in april 1945, shortly before the end of the war, and was succeeded by vice president Harry S. Truman.
December 9th, 2004  
Anya1982
 
 

Topic: leader 3


The victims
Edouard Daladier was prime minister of France three times in 1933,1934, and again in April 1938. A supporter of the appeasement policy, he was not willing to go to war despite Hitler's series of pre-war aggression acts. In march 1940, already in world war 2, and with the french military passively deployed along the Maginot line of border fortifications, Daladier was replaced by Paul Reynaud, but remained in government as war minister. Two months later the german military shocked passive France in a surprise blitzkrieg invasion and quickly defeated the large french military which was not ready for this kind of war, neither in spirit nor in equipment and tactics. Shortly before the french surrender, prime minister Reynaud replaced war minister Daladier with Charles de Gaulle, which was just a tank division commander, but he was the only commander in the french military which had some success against the invading germans, and warned before the war of the weaknesses of the french military. de Gaulle's appointment was much too late to save France, and when France surrendered, de Gaulle fled to Britain and led the "free french" forces until the end of the war and later became post-war president of France. Daladier and Reynaud were arrested by the french puppet government established after the surrender and were handed to the germans and imprisoned until the end of the war. Daladier shamelessly returned to french politics after the war for 12 more years and was a strong opponent of president de Gaulle.

King Zog of Albania - went to exile when Albania was invaded in 1939 by Italy. Albania remained occupied until the end of the war and then became a communist dictatorship

King George II of the politically unstable Greece and his dictatorial prime minister Ioannis Metaxas insisted to remain neutral in world war 2, and repelled an italian invasion which followed, but in 1941, shortly after Metaxas' death, the mighty germany military came to help the weak italian invaders and, despite support by a british military force, Greece was occupied by the germans until it was liberated by the british in 1944. After the liberation Greece fell back into political instability which resulted in a civil war

King Leopold III of Belgium - was imprisoned by the germans after the poorly equipped belgian military was crushed by german blitzkrieg invasion in May 1940. After the war Leopold was accused of collaborating with the germans and forced to remain in exile.

Queen Wilhelmina of Holland and her government ministers fled to London when Holland was invaded by the german military despite its neutrality. Holland surrendered after five days of german blitzkrieg.

King Haakon VII of Norway also fled to London when Norway was invaded by amphibious and airborne german forces despite its neutrality. The small norwegian military and british forces which landed in Norway to help them, failed to prevent the german occupation and Norway remained under german occupation until the end of world war 2. Persistent norwegian resistance and Hitler's worry of a second british landing, made him keep a huge garrison of 300,000 german troops in Norway until the end of the war, practically reducing this massive force from the german army's order of battle

Edward Rydz, the military dictator of Poland fled abroad when the obsolete polish army was crushed by the german blitzkrieg invasion in September 1939. Two weeks after the germans invaded, Poland was also invaded by Russia, following its secret agreement with Hitler. In june 1941, nazi germany occupied the russian-held part of Poland when it attacked Russia. Following Hitler's racist theory and orders, the nazi occupation of Poland was extremely brutal. The nazi plan was to gradually decimate the polish people and to reduce the remaining poles to slaves. The 3 million jews of Poland were to be killed to the last one, either by murder or by being worked and starved to death as prisoners in the nazi death camps. This organized genocide plan was gradually implemented by nazi germany during over five years of nazi occupation of Poland. It cost the lives of nearly 3 millions polish jews and millions of christian poles, destroyed the country, and deliberately caused tremendous human suffering. After world war 2 Poland became a communist dictatorship under russian influence

Dr. Edvard Benes was the elected president of Czechoslovakia between 1935 and October 1938 when he resigned when the appeasement policy of his french and british allies led them to support Hitler's demand to annex parts of Czechoslovakia. His successor, Dr. Emil Hacha, surrendered the rest of Czechoslovakia to Hitler in march 1939, under a threat of immediate german invasion, and was later arrested. Czechoslovakia remained under nazi occupation until the end of world war 2. Dr. Benes led the czech government-in-exile and after the war became president of Czechoslovakia again, but two years later, under strong russian pressure, the country became a communist dictatorship and Benes resigned and died shortly after.

King Christian X of Denmark remained in his country, which was occupied by germany in a surprise attack which required just one day. In 1943 he was put under house arrest. Denmark was liberated at the end of world war 2.
December 9th, 2004  
godofthunder9010
 
 
Am I missing something here or are all 3 of those very long back to back posts completely unrelated to the topic?? Good info but its got nothing to do with "Best Allied Army Commanders".
December 10th, 2004  
Young Winston
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaggydog
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiejohn
George Patton really worried the Germans.

He had more flair and flexibility in attack than Monty.

Sorry Monty fans.
<Patton really worried the Germans>Says who?I've seen this in hollywood movies,but do you have a source?

Check these out. There is more if you want it!!!!!!!!!

His 3rd Army was not used in the initial invasion of France, but it served a useful purpose in D-Day none the less. Hitler and the German intelligence feared Patton more than any Allied general. They expected him to lead a major invasion. Hitler knew that Patton was nowhere near France in June of 1944. Because Hitler believed that if Patton was not involved, then Normandy could not be the primary invasion site, the Germans held back critical divisions that could have opposed the landings and defended against the Allied invasion of France.

http://www.historyalive.com/essays/ha20cah/topic05.asp

In fact, the modern US version of blitzkrieg was developed by innovators like George S. Patton, Jr. Patton raised mechanized warfare to a level the Germans could only dream of. The Germans never successfully mechanized all of their divisions and most artillery and supply units remained horse-drawn throughout the war. Because of our industrial capacity and the general familiarity of Americans with trucks and automobiles, American ground forces - though slow to develop - would be entirely mechanized (even cavalry units gave up their horses in favor of light tanks and armored cars). Patton put this to good use in training exercises in Louisiana and California that stressed speed of movement and close coordination of armor, mechanized artillery, and air support. With a great sense of irony, Patton borrowed the motto of Hitler's beloved Frederick the Great: "L'audace, L'audace, Toujour L'audace" (Audacity, Audacity, Always Audacity). By the time the breakout from Normandy occurred in August, 1944, Patton's Third Army was ready to unleash the full fury of American-style blitzkrieg on the concept's creators. After Patton's success in the pursuit across France, in the Battle of the Bulge, and in the Saar-Moselle Triangle, it is little wonder that in the Germans' view he was the Allied general most to be feared.

http://www.longwood.edu/staff/hardinds/Blitzkrieg.html


Eisenhower said that Patton was “‘indispensable to the war effort—one of the guarantors of our victory’, and later by German Field Marshal Gerd von Rundstedt, what said, ‘Patton was your best’”(2). Everyone involved in the war knew that Patton was the greatest leader in the whole effort. The opposition quivered hearing his name, knowing his swift advancements and harsh fighting styles.

http://www.wowessays.com/dbase/ad1/keb269.shtml
December 10th, 2004  
Bellerophon
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiejohn
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaggydog
Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiejohn
George Patton really worried the Germans.

He had more flair and flexibility in attack than Monty.

Sorry Monty fans.
<Patton really worried the Germans>Says who?I've seen this in hollywood movies,but do you have a source?

Check these out. There is more if you want it!!!!!!!!!

His 3rd Army was not used in the initial invasion of France, but it served a useful purpose in D-Day none the less. Hitler and the German intelligence feared Patton more than any Allied general. They expected him to lead a major invasion. Hitler knew that Patton was nowhere near France in June of 1944. Because Hitler believed that if Patton was not involved, then Normandy could not be the primary invasion site, the Germans held back critical divisions that could have opposed the landings and defended against the Allied invasion of France.

http://www.historyalive.com/essays/ha20cah/topic05.asp

In fact, the modern US version of blitzkrieg was developed by innovators like George S. Patton, Jr. Patton raised mechanized warfare to a level the Germans could only dream of. The Germans never successfully mechanized all of their divisions and most artillery and supply units remained horse-drawn throughout the war. Because of our industrial capacity and the general familiarity of Americans with trucks and automobiles, American ground forces - though slow to develop - would be entirely mechanized (even cavalry units gave up their horses in favor of light tanks and armored cars). Patton put this to good use in training exercises in Louisiana and California that stressed speed of movement and close coordination of armor, mechanized artillery, and air support. With a great sense of irony, Patton borrowed the motto of Hitler's beloved Frederick the Great: "L'audace, L'audace, Toujour L'audace" (Audacity, Audacity, Always Audacity). By the time the breakout from Normandy occurred in August, 1944, Patton's Third Army was ready to unleash the full fury of American-style blitzkrieg on the concept's creators. After Patton's success in the pursuit across France, in the Battle of the Bulge, and in the Saar-Moselle Triangle, it is little wonder that in the Germans' view he was the Allied general most to be feared.

http://www.longwood.edu/staff/hardinds/Blitzkrieg.html


Eisenhower said that Patton was “‘indispensable to the war effort—one of the guarantors of our victory’, and later by German Field Marshal Gerd von Rundstedt, what said, ‘Patton was your best’”(2). Everyone involved in the war knew that Patton was the greatest leader in the whole effort. The opposition quivered hearing his name, knowing his swift advancements and harsh fighting styles.

http://www.wowessays.com/dbase/ad1/keb269.shtml
Thanks for that Aussie.Is'nt it true that Patton vs Monty 'hate thing' is a myth?Some historians claim they actually admired each other.