Wood.....Bullets.....???

mdvaden

mdvaden

Active member
One book I was reading - twice - the past few years was MARINE regarding General L. B. Puller.

In that book, within chapters covering combat on Gualdalcanal, is mention of wood bullets.

The book indicates that the wood bullets were used by the Japanese agaiinst the US front lines, with a purpose to reduce injury to Japanese soldiers that infiltrated US forces.

Are any of you familiar with this?

Do any samples survive in collections?

Would wood tipped ammunition still have a purpose now?

Thanks.

M. D. Vaden of Oregon
http://www.mdvaden.com
 
I would like to see sources about that two. My brain tells me that the wood would not survive the firing...
 
It may depend on the wood.

I know cedar (Thuja) like western red cedar is fairly soft and delicate.

On the other hand, wood like dogwood was crafted with wooden threaded parts according to a Saturday morning wood craft show - the one where the guy uses all the old hand tools.

I think the sample was a stool seat that spun to raise and lower.
 
They use those wooden riot control bullets. But they are fired from a 40mm grenade launcher and meant to be bounced off the ground.
 
SHERMAN said:
I would like to see sources about that two. My brain tells me that the wood would not survive the firing...
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I would think so to the amount of force aplied when the bullets fire would shatter the would but thats what i think anyway
 
Found this on a gunsmithing forum - I think regarding a Swedish Mauser:

And there is ammo loaded with wooden bullets (for training) available cheap..
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Then I found another web site advertising "Wood Bullets" - guess what - it's an ad for wood screws by that name.

This came up on a google search as a listing:

Later, in Richard Tregaskis's Guadalcanal Diary, he talked about the fact that troops
believed the Japanese used wooden bullets,
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But the posting was no longer available.

Found this link:
http://www.trailblazersww2.org/wooden_bullets.htm

This was unique from a geneological data site:

[Notes of visit with Lawrence Estes on August 31, 1997]

Was in the 7th Army Division. Called "Corlet Long Knives." Served at Aleutians, Hawaii, New Guinea.. A general wanted to make me a Lieutenant after the battle with Japanese at hospital but I wouldn't take it. Flew with "Jolly Roger" air crew to Australia. Went ashore in the Aleutians in a rubber boat; could see Japanese in compound; radioed information to landing troops; had an Apache Indian to talk to ship, he was killed after the landing. Was on shore three days before the landing. Was at Kwajalein, Philippines, Okinawa, and wounded three times, with wooden bullets,
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mdvaden said:
Found this on a gunsmithing forum - I think regarding a Swedish Mauser:

And there is ammo loaded with wooden bullets (for training) available cheap..
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Wooden bullets does indeed work.
I've tried the wooden Mauser bullets you've mentioned myself some years ago.
But plastic bullets have taken over as cheaper and more reliable short range training ammo now.
 
there would have to be little muzzle energy not to shatter the bullet most likely not a very powerfull gun.
Think of a 50cal with wooden bullets you'd have alot of sharpnel
 
It would be interesting to know what wood bullets are made of.

I cut a lot of trees in my work, and some wood is incredibly hard.

I'm not sure that all wood will splinter if shot - at least up to a certain velocity.

I'd imagine if some kind of buffer or wad was placed at the back to the bullet - it could make a difference.

I wonder how the effects would differ from a typical slug to a boat tail bullet.

A boat tail shape should have a pressure pushing not only outward on it, but inward on the tail end from all directions which should keep the base compressed.

Any theories on that idea?

I could see a wood bullet doing nasty filthy wounds if it did fracture when it struck someone.
 
Aaron said:
there would have to be little muzzle energy not to shatter the bullet most likely not a very powerfull gun.
Think of a 50cal with wooden bullets you'd have alot of sharpnel
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I think that most of these type rounds would carry a lighter load than metal bullets. There are all sorts of wood that would stand up to those pressures. Desert Ironwood, Bois D`Arc, Rose woods, Ebony, and many other rainforest woods. Most of these are so dense that they sink in water.The wood portion could also be made into sabots which would shatter on impact causing terrible internal wounds.
 
As far as I understand here the use of wooden projectiles was suspected but not confirmed.

The use of wooden projectiles would cause the following problems:
- Wood, due t its specific weight would loose very soon velocity and energy and so with limitings its use
- Since wood is a natural "product" it is never growing homogenous, means there are different densities in different parts of one piece of wood. This will cause the point of gravity of the projectile to be different from projectile to projectile, making it very difficult to keep a shot grouping on an acceptable level. Beside this it will be near impossible to get a constant projectile weight what will increase the effect above
- Additionaly wood is absorbing water, even from humid air, this will cause it to swell and give different friction characteruistics inside tha barrel and also increase the weight leading again to even worse shot groups

One of the very few that ever used wood to shoot in terms of a projectile were the Fins on their short range 7.62x39 (AK-47, AKM caliber) cartridge.
It was a projectile jacket that contained a wooden core that's upper half was not covered by the jacket. This design was not very successfull and was abandoned very soon after adoption likely for reasons mentioned above.
The others that ever used wood in projectiles were the Danes in the early 1900s with their Schuboe pistol in 11.35mm. Their projectiles had full metal jacket projectiles with wooden cores and also with aluminum cores. The pistol and its ammo never became famous and are some odd thing in history.
The last design being really used is the British 1.5 inch baton round for riot control but this is more a unstabilized "thing" (cylinder) that is accellerated and has no real characteristics of a projectile.

Not to be confused with real projectiles are the old style blank rounds and grenade propelling cartridges which are hollow wooden projectiles which break apart upon firing. The wooden projectiles were used with these rounds to assure proper feeding of the cartridges.
The US did not use this system in the last 70 years and I'm not sure if they did before.

So far I have never seen real working cartridges with wooden projectiles which were meant to be fired at a target and I would be surprised if it will ever happen.
 
EOD said:
So far I have never seen real working cartridges with wooden projectiles which were meant to be fired at a target and I would be surprised if it will ever happen.
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As I mentioned in an earlier post, I've tried wooden bullets on a rebuilt M98 Mauser rifle (7.62x63mm) some years ago, and they did indeed work on short ranges (50-100meters).
But the accuracy wasn't too great over 50 meters, and they were especially affected by strong wind.

The bullets were meant for safe training in areas where you couldn't risk that they missed their targets, and could hit people objects behind the target area...
I believe they didn't pose a (serious) threat over 150-200 meters.
 
The US and a few other countries used teak wood as a riot round called a baton. It was meant to be skipped in front of the crowd and hit at knee level. I also saw where they had caused damage and death when some skipped head high. The chunk of wood looked to be about 5 inches long. Hard and even soft rubber took their place.
Per the History Channel. Here is a source for gas fired wooden bullets. Check out their product list while you're there.


http://www.ozarkmtns.com/less-lethal/products/als3705W.htm

http://www.samcoglobal.com/ammo.html

See "all's fair in war?" close to the bottom.
http://www.skylighters.org/memories/reunion99/

More wooden bullets in war.
http://www.trailblazersww2.org/divisionhistory/wooden_bullets.htm

Another.
http://www.usafa.af.mil/dfsel/sl3/stalag/bullet.html
 
"One of the very few that ever used wood to shoot in terms of a projectile were the Fins on their short range 7.62x39 (AK-47, AKM caliber) cartridge.
It was a projectile jacket that contained a wooden core that's upper half was not covered by the jacket. This design was not very successfull and was abandoned very soon after adoption likely for reasons mentioned above."

We use excersise cartridges "paukkupatruuna" (Platzpatrone in german) wich have blue wooden bullets and while using them crusher must be attached to barrel's muzzle to stop and crush bullets and give enough power for weapon to get loaded. They are not live rounds and can't be used as combat rounds.
 
I remember hearing some comments on history channel regarding German SS troops using wooden bullets - to inflict nasty wounds on enemies. A disabled enemy soldier is worth 3 soldiers total. Can't find sources though.
 
Who ever stated that wrote his own history.
I'm a member of the European Cartridge Research Association and additionally know pelnty of guys dealing with particular German WWII SAA ammo 24 hrs a day and there are 2 books on that subject and nobody ever has seen something like that. Sounds much like propaganda.

The reasons aginst wooden projectiles mentioned above are still valid.

Think there is a fair chance that some guys beeing wounded in combat (regardless where) were hit by wooden splinters from trees or barricades and basing on their little knowledge on the subject they start telling stories about what they think what happened.
 
EuroSpike said:
"One of the very few that ever used wood to shoot in terms of a projectile were the Fins on their short range 7.62x39 (AK-47, AKM caliber) cartridge.
It was a projectile jacket that contained a wooden core that's upper half was not covered by the jacket. This design was not very successfull and was abandoned very soon after adoption likely for reasons mentioned above."

We use excersise cartridges "paukkupatruuna" (Platzpatrone in german) wich have blue wooden bullets and while using them crusher must be attached to barrel's muzzle to stop and crush bullets and give enough power for weapon to get loaded. They are not live rounds and can't be used as combat rounds.
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Yes, I know what you mean but I wrote that they have a jacket and they are no blue or red wood blanks that are fired with a blank firing device. The one I described is a short range training round which has an unpainted wooden core protruding from the jacket.
The one I mean has seen service for an extreme short time and there will be very few Finnish army members that have ever seen them.
If someone likes to see a photo post your e-mail and I will send it.
 
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