WINNER OF WW2
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USAFAUX2004
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speaking of not coming thru on a deal, stalin also hoped that if he goes any farther he could snatch it also
godofthunder9010
Active member
removed
As far as the Yalta agreement, isn't it interesting that Stalin did indeed come through on handing over the agreed portions of Berlin to UK, USA and France.
As far as the Yalta agreement, isn't it interesting that Stalin did indeed come through on handing over the agreed portions of Berlin to UK, USA and France.
Doppleganger
Active member
godofthunder9010 said:
A big reason for that may have been the fact that the Soviets hadn't developed their own nuke at that time. I also happen to believe that Stalin did not want any further war - he had wanted to end the war with the Nazis as early as January 1943.
Duty Honor Country
Active member
Keep on topic
All posts that were off topic have been removed.
All posts that were off topic have been removed.
USAFAUX2004
Active member
It is believed by russian historians that while D-Day relieved pressure russia could take germany alone
godofthunder9010
Active member
"Believed" by Russian Historians? No, its completely obvious to any historian. The USSR could have done it without D-Day. It simply ended the war more quickly by opening the extra front.drilldownmaster2004 said:
Now whether they could have done it without any help at all -- supplies shipped to Archangel, bombing campaign and production focussed on the Atlantic coastal defense and U-boat campaign -- that is another matter. It's doubtful.
USSR WON, SO ALL U RUSSIAN'S BE PROUD
U ask me who won WW2? Lol. it was pretty obvious that the USSR did all of the major parts. Think back when the allies were being crushed, Germans send most of their army to the USSR front, the Germans knew that they can hold of the UK and French fronts so tehy switched to attack the USSR. It was an unexpected attack which cause the USSR to lose a lot of their army.
1. USSR didnt have the weapons like the Germans (Machine guns, chlorine gas, panzer tanks) and were unprepared to fight.
2.The USSR side didnt have any tanks or weapons to fight with right away.(so most of it fell under German control)
3. Stalin believed that Hitler would keep his promise and his treaty, althought the USSR intelligence told them that there will be an attack upcoming.
4. After the first launched attack , Stalin couldn't believe wut has happened, and went to his private home and stayed there for a week before getting his mind together and went to Moscow.
When the Germans were coming up to Stalingrad, this was the battle of all ages. If they took control of it, then the supply lines would be destroyed on the Stalingrad river, and it would be an attomatic loss for both the allies, because after they had USSR under control they could do anything in a big area such as USSR had.
Another thing USSR intelligence did was they stopped the Germans from making the A-Bomb, by stealing the files from the German scientist, and i believe they killed him as well. It would have been an even worse masacure if they didnt prevent them from such a thing.
Plus the German panzer army were to take Moscow and were 50 km before reaching the city. When they got attacked by surprise by Snipers and regular Men from Sebir. there were 8 of them that survived, and guess wut? Only eight of them stopped the German panzer tanks from reachin the Moscow city. (think about it 8 men destroyed a panzer tank army).
Also after the an elite army was fromed in the North, the USSR's drove the Germans back to where they came from. and where were the UK FRENCH and USA then?? They were barely recovering from wut they had to go through, and barely held that one front. after the USSR's got to Germany they all rushed to get to Berlin first, but wut were they doing before when USSR needed help on their front. 3 countries couldn't hold off one front, which makes it pathetic. This proves that USSR lost its men and women to crush the Germans and take the WHOLE EUROPE BACK.
One more thing . why didnt anyone like French or Uk or USA say some when Germans took over Poland, where were their fu|<in treaty then, if they would have said some maybe it would be so bad as it was.
WE LOST OVER 28 MILLION SOLDIERS AND U FU<ING CRY THAT U LOST 100 THOUSAND, WELL HOW WOULD U FEEL IF UR COUNTRY LOST 28 FU,IN MILLION SOLDIERS, AND HALF OF UR COUNTRY WAS DESTROYED. IT WOULD COST A LOT TO REBUILD RIGHT? DID USA SUFFER COMPLETE DESTRUCTION?? NO SO THEY SHOULDNT BE TALKIN SHIT IF THEY WERENT IN A POSITION LIKE THE USSR'S(RUSSIAN'S).
MOST OF UR COUNTRIES HAS NO HISTORY , ONLY SMALL BULSHIT THAT IS USELESS TO LEARN. THE REAL WINNER ARE USSR'S ALL OTHER COUNTRIES PUT TOGETHER DIDNT LOSE AS MANY SOLDIERS AS USSR SO SIT TIGHT AND DONT TALK.
U ask me who won WW2? Lol. it was pretty obvious that the USSR did all of the major parts. Think back when the allies were being crushed, Germans send most of their army to the USSR front, the Germans knew that they can hold of the UK and French fronts so tehy switched to attack the USSR. It was an unexpected attack which cause the USSR to lose a lot of their army.
1. USSR didnt have the weapons like the Germans (Machine guns, chlorine gas, panzer tanks) and were unprepared to fight.
2.The USSR side didnt have any tanks or weapons to fight with right away.(so most of it fell under German control)
3. Stalin believed that Hitler would keep his promise and his treaty, althought the USSR intelligence told them that there will be an attack upcoming.
4. After the first launched attack , Stalin couldn't believe wut has happened, and went to his private home and stayed there for a week before getting his mind together and went to Moscow.
When the Germans were coming up to Stalingrad, this was the battle of all ages. If they took control of it, then the supply lines would be destroyed on the Stalingrad river, and it would be an attomatic loss for both the allies, because after they had USSR under control they could do anything in a big area such as USSR had.
Another thing USSR intelligence did was they stopped the Germans from making the A-Bomb, by stealing the files from the German scientist, and i believe they killed him as well. It would have been an even worse masacure if they didnt prevent them from such a thing.
Plus the German panzer army were to take Moscow and were 50 km before reaching the city. When they got attacked by surprise by Snipers and regular Men from Sebir. there were 8 of them that survived, and guess wut? Only eight of them stopped the German panzer tanks from reachin the Moscow city. (think about it 8 men destroyed a panzer tank army).
Also after the an elite army was fromed in the North, the USSR's drove the Germans back to where they came from. and where were the UK FRENCH and USA then?? They were barely recovering from wut they had to go through, and barely held that one front. after the USSR's got to Germany they all rushed to get to Berlin first, but wut were they doing before when USSR needed help on their front. 3 countries couldn't hold off one front, which makes it pathetic. This proves that USSR lost its men and women to crush the Germans and take the WHOLE EUROPE BACK.
One more thing . why didnt anyone like French or Uk or USA say some when Germans took over Poland, where were their fu|<in treaty then, if they would have said some maybe it would be so bad as it was.
WE LOST OVER 28 MILLION SOLDIERS AND U FU<ING CRY THAT U LOST 100 THOUSAND, WELL HOW WOULD U FEEL IF UR COUNTRY LOST 28 FU,IN MILLION SOLDIERS, AND HALF OF UR COUNTRY WAS DESTROYED. IT WOULD COST A LOT TO REBUILD RIGHT? DID USA SUFFER COMPLETE DESTRUCTION?? NO SO THEY SHOULDNT BE TALKIN SHIT IF THEY WERENT IN A POSITION LIKE THE USSR'S(RUSSIAN'S).
MOST OF UR COUNTRIES HAS NO HISTORY , ONLY SMALL BULSHIT THAT IS USELESS TO LEARN. THE REAL WINNER ARE USSR'S ALL OTHER COUNTRIES PUT TOGETHER DIDNT LOSE AS MANY SOLDIERS AS USSR SO SIT TIGHT AND DONT TALK.
Doppleganger
Active member
Kirrill K you are right that the Soviet Union contributed the biggest part in defeating Nazi Germany. But a cold hard fact is that they could not have done it without the USA/UK Lend-Lease agreement.
However, a lot of your information is incorrect. The Red Army did have machine guns and they had *more* and *better* tanks than the Wehrmacht at the start of Barbarossa. The Germans had nothing to compare with the Soviet T-34 and KV-1 tanks in 1941. I'm not aware also that the Germans used chlorine gas in WW2, at least not on the battlefield. A link to back up this claim would be appreciated.
Stalin was so sure that Hitler would never attack him and of course he was shocked when Hitler did. His Armies were collapsing and shattering under the German onslaught and who can blame him for being initially paralaysed - your whole country was. But never forget Stalin saved Moscow and therefore your nation in 1941 with his stirring speech on November 7th and his decision to move Zhukov's 25 Siberian Divisions west that drove the Wehrmacht back and very nearly shattered them.
The Battle of Stalingrad was not as decisive a battle as once believed, although it was (along with Kursk) a true turning point of WW2.
Which Panzer Army was destroyed by 8 men? I find that hard to believe and again a link would be nice.
The West does indeed owe a huge debt to the Soviet Union for defeating Nazi Germany but the other Allies did contribute as well.
However, a lot of your information is incorrect. The Red Army did have machine guns and they had *more* and *better* tanks than the Wehrmacht at the start of Barbarossa. The Germans had nothing to compare with the Soviet T-34 and KV-1 tanks in 1941. I'm not aware also that the Germans used chlorine gas in WW2, at least not on the battlefield. A link to back up this claim would be appreciated.
Stalin was so sure that Hitler would never attack him and of course he was shocked when Hitler did. His Armies were collapsing and shattering under the German onslaught and who can blame him for being initially paralaysed - your whole country was. But never forget Stalin saved Moscow and therefore your nation in 1941 with his stirring speech on November 7th and his decision to move Zhukov's 25 Siberian Divisions west that drove the Wehrmacht back and very nearly shattered them.
The Battle of Stalingrad was not as decisive a battle as once believed, although it was (along with Kursk) a true turning point of WW2.
Which Panzer Army was destroyed by 8 men? I find that hard to believe and again a link would be nice.
The West does indeed owe a huge debt to the Soviet Union for defeating Nazi Germany but the other Allies did contribute as well.
USAFAUX2004
Active member
1. USSR didnt have the weapons like the Germans (Machine guns, chlorine gas, panzer tanks) and were unprepared to fight.
Russian had weapons and they were ready to fight
2.The USSR side didnt have any tanks or weapons to fight with right away.(so most of it fell under German control)
Russia was ready to invade germany if france had held on for a few more weeks
3. Stalin believed that Hitler would keep his promise and his treaty, althought the USSR intelligence told them that there will be an attack upcoming.
It was british intelligence and he knew he could not trust hitler (thats why he planned to invade first)
4. After the first launched attack , Stalin couldn't believe wut has happened, and went to his private home and stayed there for a week before getting his mind together and went to Moscow.
He believed it because he anticipated it all along
Russian had weapons and they were ready to fight
2.The USSR side didnt have any tanks or weapons to fight with right away.(so most of it fell under German control)
Russia was ready to invade germany if france had held on for a few more weeks
3. Stalin believed that Hitler would keep his promise and his treaty, althought the USSR intelligence told them that there will be an attack upcoming.
It was british intelligence and he knew he could not trust hitler (thats why he planned to invade first)
4. After the first launched attack , Stalin couldn't believe wut has happened, and went to his private home and stayed there for a week before getting his mind together and went to Moscow.
He believed it because he anticipated it all along
godofthunder9010
Active member
Re: USSR WON, SO ALL U RUSSIAN'S BE PROUD
Good post. I agree with much of what your saying, but there's some inaccuracies. Whether the rest of the world wants to admit it or not, the rest of the world owes a tremendous debt to the Russian people and their sacrifice in World War II.
The German Wehrmacht may have been only a fraction of the size of the Red Army in all categories at the beginning of Barbarossa -- but being outnumbered was nothing new to them. They were an incredibly effective military force that only one country managed to stop -- Russia.
Not only did everyone else get beaten like a red-headed stepchild against Germany in 1939-1940, they got beat BAD and FAST. Poland had a very strong military, and it was ripped to shreds almost effortlessly. When Germany invaded France, they were outnumbered in both manpower and tanks, but it took only 40 days. Britain did manage to stop the Luftwaffe, but that only 1 card in the Wehrmacht's deck -- and not the best one at that. The simple truth of it -- the seemed to be completely unstoppable on the ground. The were unstoppable -- until Russia. The USSR was better prepared in terms of mobile warfare, but it still took a tremendous toll in Russian blood to stop Germany, push them back and eventually crush them.
The USA and the UK got off easy, plain and simple.
Another correction: There was never any agreement between France and the USSR. Stalin had thusfar benefitted from friendly relations with Nazi Germany. He was a little too trusting.
Doppleganger and I are likely to disagree on one point -- Stalin was 99% liability and 1% help in the whole matter. The Russian People won the victory in spite of his absolutely terrible leadership; his blantant disregard for the masses of Russian men dying for the cause; his completely unnecssary establishment of killing squads behind the lines to execute anyone trying to retreat. His secret police even murdered the genius that developed the T34! I'm not willing to give Stalin one shred of credit for much of anything -- credit belongs to the people of the USSR and Russia.
Good post. I agree with much of what your saying, but there's some inaccuracies. Whether the rest of the world wants to admit it or not, the rest of the world owes a tremendous debt to the Russian people and their sacrifice in World War II.
On the European side, you're absolutely right. As far as the Japanese side of the war ... that's another matter entirely.Kirill K said:
The Red Army was something of a headless dragon (with most of its officers dead courtesy of Stalin). They also were not the fine-tuned, experienced machine of war like the German Army was. Still, they so greatly outnumbered the Germans in Tanks, Combat Aircraft, and sheer numbers that its miraculous that the Germans did as well as they did. The USSR has a lot of tanks, many of which (T-34's) were better than anything Germany could put in the field. Their aircraft were inferior, but they had a LOT more of them than Germany did. Neither side was as well equipped as they ought to have been, but both sides were better equipped than any other army on the planet.
The German Wehrmacht may have been only a fraction of the size of the Red Army in all categories at the beginning of Barbarossa -- but being outnumbered was nothing new to them. They were an incredibly effective military force that only one country managed to stop -- Russia.
Not only did everyone else get beaten like a red-headed stepchild against Germany in 1939-1940, they got beat BAD and FAST. Poland had a very strong military, and it was ripped to shreds almost effortlessly. When Germany invaded France, they were outnumbered in both manpower and tanks, but it took only 40 days. Britain did manage to stop the Luftwaffe, but that only 1 card in the Wehrmacht's deck -- and not the best one at that. The simple truth of it -- the seemed to be completely unstoppable on the ground. The were unstoppable -- until Russia. The USSR was better prepared in terms of mobile warfare, but it still took a tremendous toll in Russian blood to stop Germany, push them back and eventually crush them.
The USA and the UK got off easy, plain and simple.
Another correction: There was never any agreement between France and the USSR. Stalin had thusfar benefitted from friendly relations with Nazi Germany. He was a little too trusting.
Doppleganger and I are likely to disagree on one point -- Stalin was 99% liability and 1% help in the whole matter. The Russian People won the victory in spite of his absolutely terrible leadership; his blantant disregard for the masses of Russian men dying for the cause; his completely unnecssary establishment of killing squads behind the lines to execute anyone trying to retreat. His secret police even murdered the genius that developed the T34! I'm not willing to give Stalin one shred of credit for much of anything -- credit belongs to the people of the USSR and Russia.
USAFAUX2004
Active member
Thunder i agree that we, the russians were VERY helpful, but did not help on japan.
We did fight off an invasion plan and we were almost ready to go in after the german fall.
My G-Grandfather was a LtCol at the time and he would have commanded pity crime troops from siberia, but the US "dropped the bomb" (and it wasn't the F-bomb)
We did fight off an invasion plan and we were almost ready to go in after the german fall.
My G-Grandfather was a LtCol at the time and he would have commanded pity crime troops from siberia, but the US "dropped the bomb" (and it wasn't the F-bomb)
Doppleganger
Active member
Re: USSR WON, SO ALL U RUSSIAN'S BE PROUD
Stalin was a brutal, megalomaniacal, cruel sadist with little regard for the lives of his subjects but his speech on November 7th in many observers eyes really did stir the spirits of the average Soviet citizen. It was a speech to compare with Winston Churchill's Battle of Britain speech. Stalin was a monster but you can't take away what that speech did for his nation.
His ruthless control of STAVKA too meant that the sheer panic gripping the USSR in 1941 was in many ways expunged. It was a desperate time for the Soviet Union where its very existence was on the line. IMO not many leaders would have recovered the situation the way Stalin did. Whether you like him or not and very few did, he did what any leader must do in a crisis. He motivated and stirred his citizens and soldiers and he brutally crushed any opposition or dissent so that the whole nation was focused on one thing - to repel the fascist invaders.
godofthunder9010 said:
Stalin was a brutal, megalomaniacal, cruel sadist with little regard for the lives of his subjects but his speech on November 7th in many observers eyes really did stir the spirits of the average Soviet citizen. It was a speech to compare with Winston Churchill's Battle of Britain speech. Stalin was a monster but you can't take away what that speech did for his nation.
His ruthless control of STAVKA too meant that the sheer panic gripping the USSR in 1941 was in many ways expunged. It was a desperate time for the Soviet Union where its very existence was on the line. IMO not many leaders would have recovered the situation the way Stalin did. Whether you like him or not and very few did, he did what any leader must do in a crisis. He motivated and stirred his citizens and soldiers and he brutally crushed any opposition or dissent so that the whole nation was focused on one thing - to repel the fascist invaders.
Doppleganger
Active member
drilldownmaster2004 said:
I've heard this theory that the USSR were planning to launch a pre-emptive strike. IMO there's just not enough evidence that this was the case.
Also, it wasn't just British Intelligence who told Stalin that Hitler was about to invade. His own trusted spy Richard Sorge told him too. I really believe that Stalin was taken totally by surprise when Hitler invaded. I mean, if he had anticipated it, he would not have had his armies deployed the way they were along the German-Soviet border and he would have dispersed his front-line aircraft into forward positions. Also, Red Army commanders begged STAVKA to allow them to put their troops onto heightened alert but Stalin refused until midnight June 21 '41 which was of course far too late. So the Red Army were not ready to fight.
godofthunder9010
Active member
The theory of a pre-emptive strike seems unlikely to me. After securing the Non-Aggression Treaty with Germany, he was focussing on purging the Red Army of its officers because he saw them as a threat to him. There was likely a conspiracy on some level -- tends to be very difficult to tell with Stalin's cronies rewriting the history and erasing a lot of evidence -- but Stalin went too far with it.
In his favor, he managed to build the Red Army into an enormous fighting force, the likes of which had never been seen before on Earth. They had modern equipment and generally were well trained. The truth be told, they were more up to date on the concepts of mechanized warfare than anybody other than the Germans. He built up Soviet Industry and transportation.
The speech was lovely, but I don't agree that the iron fist of the NKVD and STAVKA really helped the war effort. Once the Russian people saw the types of attrocities the Germans committed in the Ukraine, I think they fully realized that they had to win the war or suffer either slavery or death at Germany's hands. They were more than willing to fight to the death to protect Mother Russia.
In his favor, he managed to build the Red Army into an enormous fighting force, the likes of which had never been seen before on Earth. They had modern equipment and generally were well trained. The truth be told, they were more up to date on the concepts of mechanized warfare than anybody other than the Germans. He built up Soviet Industry and transportation.
The speech was lovely, but I don't agree that the iron fist of the NKVD and STAVKA really helped the war effort. Once the Russian people saw the types of attrocities the Germans committed in the Ukraine, I think they fully realized that they had to win the war or suffer either slavery or death at Germany's hands. They were more than willing to fight to the death to protect Mother Russia.
Young Winston
Banned
The "Don't take one step back" policy (1942 I think) was a rather ruthless policy to try and stop any more retreats by the Soviets.
Have you guys read about the "Blocking" & "Punishment" Battalions used by the Soviets as well.
The Germans were amazed at these tactics!!
Anyway the winner of the war was the US, the military and economic No.1 superpower.
Have you guys read about the "Blocking" & "Punishment" Battalions used by the Soviets as well.
The Germans were amazed at these tactics!!
Anyway the winner of the war was the US, the military and economic No.1 superpower.
USAFAUX2004
Active member
there is another thread for postwar winners, its the profiteers of WW2 thread
godofthunder9010
Active member
I know that the USSR was ready to jump in and help with Japan, but the fact remains that they were not a major player on that side of the World War II. They did repel a Japanese invasioninto Siberia in 1939 but the USSR and Japan pretty much left each other alone from that point on.drilldownmaster2004 said:
The 2 most import Allies vs Japan were the USA and China IMO.
USAFAUX2004
Active member
godofthunder9010 said:
yes thats true, but the major player in WW2 was germany and they could do alot of bad things if they won
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