Whoever thought that the novel "1984" would come true?

[A Can of Man]

The problem in this case are the parents. Precisely the kind of home where spanking goes wrong and the reason why it got outlawed (wrongly) in the first place.

 

[The Other Guy]

The problem in this case are the parents. Precisely the kind of home where spanking goes wrong and the reason why it got outlawed (wrongly) in the first place.

I agree completely. This is why this became messed up to begin with was lousy parenting. Before we had abusive parenting, now we have the opposite.

 

[5.56X45mm]

Got any original ideas yourself on how to tackle the problem.

Yes I do....

Allow parents to properly punish their kids. Spanking is not abuse. Kid acts up in public, screams, talks back, etc... giving a good slap across the rear. It'll do wonders. Worked in the school system.... the paddle wasn't a desk ornament.

 

[BritinBritain]

Yes I do....

Allow parents to properly punish their kids. Spanking is not abuse. Kid acts up in public, screams, talks back, etc... giving a good slap across the rear. It'll do wonders. Worked in the school system.... the paddle wasn't a desk ornament.

In addition to my previous post, when I was a boy the local copper would give kids a clip around the ear if they were up to all manner of mischief. If I told dad I got a clip around the ear, he'd give me another one.

 

[MontyB]

Yeah the "just spank em" theory is fine but that is not what this issue is about, because in this case it is the parents that are failing not the kids.

So we come back to the previous question, do you have any original ideas on how to handle half arsed parents?

 

[pixiedustboo]

Whatever happened to plain old common sense parenting and a follow-thru of disicipline from parents?

Honestly from today's children I can see why the government is wanting to get involved, but it certainly isn't their place.

 

[The Other Guy]

Whatever happened to plain old common sense parenting and a follow-thru of disicipline from parents?

Honestly from today's children I can see why the government is wanting to get involved, but it certainly isn't their place.

I'm with you here. Even my own parents have gotten lazy; they were pretty good with me but my younger brother is turning into an attention seeking brown nosing slimeball and they listen to him like he's the second coming of Christ.

I'm thinking about moving out, just so I'll be treated better.

 

[A Can of Man]

The problem is the incompetent few who screw it up for the rest of us.
Spanking should be legal, but why is it illegal? Because in disfunctional homes, like the ones here who are potentially going to be put under surveillance, they don't spank for reward and punishment, they literally beat their kids to a pulp because they had a bad day at work. That's how spanking really got ammunition for becoming illegal.
It's unfortunate that the government is getting involved in this but crap, maybe this is a first step towards making spanking legal again.
If you can't act like an adult, you don't deserve the freedom that comes with being one.

 

[George]

The problem is the incompetent few who screw it up for the rest of us.
Spanking should be legal, but why is it illegal? Because in disfunctional homes, like the ones here who are potentially going to be put under surveillance, they don't spank for reward and punishment, they literally beat their kids to a pulp because they had a bad day at work. That's how spanking really got ammunition for becoming illegal.
It's unfortunate that the government is getting involved in this but crap, maybe this is a first step towards making spanking legal again.
If you can't act like an adult, you don't deserve the freedom that comes with being one.

you mean like the small number of criminals who use guns & gives the Govt an excuse to disarm everybody? Like the guy in Tazmania?

 

[A Can of Man]

That's a bit of a stretch.

Some societies with total or near total gun bans are very safe (Korea and Japan) but I've yet to be convinced that societies can raise kids without any sort of physical punishment. I've taught for a while and the kids who haven't been spanked and have been given the whole "you are so special" treatment make me puke.

 

[George]

That's a bit of a stretch.

Some societies with total or near total gun bans are very safe (Korea and Japan) but I've yet to be convinced that societies can raise kids without any sort of physical punishment. I've taught for a while and the kids who haven't been spanked and have been given the whole "you are so special" treatment make me puke.

i have seen refrences that Japanese & Korean background Americans have low rates of "gun violence", perhaps they are just more layed back as a group.

 

[A Can of Man]

It's so off topic that I'll just PM you about this.

 

[Ted]

Wow.... what to say? I am all for government help when it comes to dysfunctional families. There are simply too many people who do know how to make a child and are utterly clueless on raising them.

I don't agree that social Darwinism is that answer. Firstly it is based on coincidental mutations which should be the same nation wide. Since no country is a isotropic plane the mutations will not be evenly spread and leave loads of others in the dark. Secondly we live on a planet with nearly 7 billion souls. Leaving the regulation of all these people up to mother nature will not work.

I am also against the re-introduction of capital punishment. It sure looks nice but it doesn't do anything really. I got plenty of "correctional slaps" but they didn't change one thing. It was a trade off; I am willing to take a proper beating over this? If the answer was "yes" then so be it. If "no" then I didn't go through with my actions. For younger children, sure, that is a different matter while their cranial synapses aren't fully developed and can't oversee their actions. But for adolescents there are better ways to make them see differently.

The only trouble with this is that it takes a consequent parent, and I regrettably don't see many of those. Today a lot of parents want to be their child's best friend. But they should be a parent which supersedes being a friend. Oh... and it does help to say "no" and stick to this!

And since more and more parents don't do this, step aside for the government. It sounds scary, but I think the greatest problem with this is the hurt pride of the failing parent!

 

[A Can of Man]

Ted, you probably haven't had the sh*t kicked out of you on a regular basis, that's why. The "correctional slaps" we sometimes get are a joke. The only thing that makes them fearsome is, if you're a foreigner, it can lead to your early departure and if it can make finding a job very difficult.

The reason why Social Darwinism won't really work is because all it does is create more underclasses in society which will cause crime to skyrocket because even the "losers" in the social game will try to find a way. If they have nothing, they will resort to crime. Social Darwinism has nothing to do with mutation.

 

[Ted]

Ted, you probably haven't had the sh*t kicked out of you on a regular basis, that's why.

And you find this a good thing? And you're right, I haven't had the crap kicked out of me... at least not by my parents. And it made me an okay bloke; I do no crime and I have a honest job? So what does that make me according to social darwinists?

Social Darwinism has nothing to do with mutation.

If you say adaptation does not equal mutation, than you are right. If you do however, see a resemblance than you might agree that it has to do with mutation/ adaptation.

Social Darwinism is a belief, popular in the late Victorian era in England, America, and elsewhere, which states that the strongest or fittest should survive and flourish in society, while the weak and unfit should be allowed to die.
The concept of adaptation allowed him to claim that the rich and powerful were better adapted to the social and economic climate of the time, and the concept of natural selection allowed him to argue that it was natural, normal, and proper for the strong to thrive at the expense of the weak. After all, he claimed, that is exactly what goes on in nature every day.

And for all you people who think that this is the way to go:

Social Darwinism was used to justify numerous exploits which we classify as of dubious moral value today.

http://library.thinkquest.org/C004367/eh4.shtml
(I haven't checked if thinkquest is owned by a Democrat, because to some this might be reason as to doubt the thought and content and there for disqualify the initial statement in total)

 

[A Can of Man]

Ted, I don't think that's the way to go.
You should read the part where I said Social Darwinism wouldn't work. It would create a lot of "losers" in the social game but they would not go away, rather simply add to society's problems.

The part about penalties having no effect on you is why I added the part about you not getting beaten up pretty bad on a regular basis. Trust me, everyone who walks into those situations saying it won't affect them walk out changed. There are a few who aren't affected but they are actually really crazy (as in they actually have a mental disorder).

Again, not a big fan of Social Darwinism at all.

 

[Ted]

Okay, so we have the same starting point. And I agree that a sound thrashing changes a person, but I am quit certain not in a positive way. I can't get it in my head that in order to make an obedient child you have to beat him/her within an inch of his/her life!
The dictator Caligula said it best when he said: "I don't care if they hate me, as long as they fear me!" And showing your love through beating is an contradiction any which way you spin it. What ever happened to setting boundaries and staying consequent? You don't even have to hit your child this way...

 

[A Can of Man]

If it's systematic (as in you do it for a purpose) it can be constructive. You should not beat your kids to a pulp.
The problem always arises when it's done to satisfy a parent's emotional need.

 

[Avocadoism]

Corporal punishment is only okay if you also utilise the positive reinforcement of good behaviour. If you only give a child negative attention, they'll just take up that attention instead of seeking for postive attention, because they've given up. Postive reinforcement can come out of the else places apart from the parents/guardians, by the way.

Though if you can only fall back on corporal punishment, it probably means you don't know how to parent too well in the first place. Same for just screaming your head off. So giving those parents that qualify to be in the 'sin bins' the right to smack wouldn't change anything.

 

[A Can of Man]

Not really. If you know how to apply it and do so early on you don't have to use it very often later. at least that's the way I know it.