Well happy VE day folks...
I wonder what the war would have looked like if that German bomber crew didn't make that mistake on August 24 1940.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I doubt it would have made any difference, I think Churchill and co would have used any excuse to retaliate.
We learn a lot about German propaganda of the 1st and 2nd world war but if you look at how devious British propaganda was you will soon see that they more than a match for the Germans.
I can understand the dislike of the English after all Bomber Command was specifically targetting and killing civilians but the Americans seemed far more concentrated on military targets.
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Der Alte
Banned
@LeEnfield
It was the general perception among Germans back then. I, as a soldier accepts that such were the conditions of war. Equally terrible as the bombing of Coventry was in 1940, so was the the bombing of Hamburg in 1943.
@VDKMS
I believe as Monty that it would not have changed anything. Strategic bombing of Germany would come at some point.
@MontyB
The average German citizen at the time, did not differ.
It was the general perception among Germans back then. I, as a soldier accepts that such were the conditions of war. Equally terrible as the bombing of Coventry was in 1940, so was the the bombing of Hamburg in 1943.
@VDKMS
I believe as Monty that it would not have changed anything. Strategic bombing of Germany would come at some point.
@MontyB
The average German citizen at the time, did not differ.
LeEnfield
Active member
When Britain took a pasting in from the German Airforce in 1940/41 we did not have the aircraft to hit back. The German people seemed revel in the idea that they could bomb the hell out of Britain and not be hit in return. They cheered Hitler when when he told them how he was going destroy Britain by bombing, yet when the the newer four engine heavy bomber started to come on stream and pay you back then it was a different story. Also there was never a reported death of any German aircrew from the civilian population of Britain, but in Germany it was thought okay to kill the RAF crews any way they liked and many were beaten to death or hanged after they had bailed out.
Der Alte
Banned
Well, not all of your country men agree with you.
http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showthread.php?t=14635
And, as one says: "The fact that they remain unpublicised so long after the event is largely due to the fact that documented history tends to be the preserve of the victors."
LeEnfield
Active member
I wont disagree that some could have been hit but have you ever seen any record of them bing killed by a mob, or hung in the streets, or beaten to death. Also in 1940 some people were expecting a parachute invasion so if a farmer took the odd pot shot I can understand yet as far as I know NONE of them were ever killed, can you say that about the Allied aircrew in Germany
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Well since you ask...
On 15 Sep 40 a Dornier Do17Z of 1 Staffel, Kampfgeschwader 76 was shot down over London, it crashed on Victoria Station after some of the crew baled out. Oberleutnant Robert Zehbe (born 9 Dec 1913 Kiel) landed by parachute in Kennington, London. He was captured and beaten to death by a mob of civilians.
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There is an aside to this, Zehbe was not strictly beaten to death, he was beaten and died of his injuries the following day and some of those injuries were as a result of the crash but I have no doubt the same injuries would have occured to allied airmen over Germany.
Further to this Harris publically stated his aim was to kill civilians in 1943...
A BBC broadcast about a Bomber Command raid on Leipzeig on 25 October 1943 led to complaints from the public about its mealy-mouthed references to the targeting of marshalling yards. Harris's response was to demand that the Air Ministry issue a clear statement of, and justification for, his strategy:
The aim of the Combined Bomber Offensive and the part which Bomber Command is required by agreed British-US strategy to play in it, should be unambiguously and publicly stated. That aim is the destruction of German cities, the killing of German workers and the disruption of civilised community life throughout Germany.
It should be emphasised that the destruction of houses, public utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-products of attempts to hit factories.
He made similar statements more informally as well, for example telling 'his American counterpart' (Eaker) that It should be emphasised that the destruction of houses, public utilities, transport and lives, the creation of a refugee problem on an unprecedented scale, and the breakdown of morale both at home and at the battle fronts by fear of extended and intensified bombing, are accepted and intended aims of our bombing policy. They are not by-products of attempts to hit factories.
You destroy a factory and they rebuild it. In six weeks they are in operation again. I kill all their workmen, and it takes twenty-one years to provide new ones.
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