Victory in Iraq
Whispering Death
Active member
Pretty much the only real victory in Iraq at this point is when the vast majority of our troops are no longer in-theater.
We've already won the major combat, now it's just a matter of pacification. But full pacification can take generations to complete. In America we still have people flying the Southern Rebel Flag from their pick-up trucks and other guys blowing up the Oklahoma building because they think the government isn't the way it should be.
We've already won the major combat, now it's just a matter of pacification. But full pacification can take generations to complete. In America we still have people flying the Southern Rebel Flag from their pick-up trucks and other guys blowing up the Oklahoma building because they think the government isn't the way it should be.
Damien435
Active member
Smooth move, you pissed of the Brit, now you gone dun it.
Well, for starters we could get rid of this defeatist attitude in the media, this war needs to be won at home, not in Iraq. In Iraq itself time is our best ally, the insurgency, I am willing to bet, has less endurance and capacity to keep fighting than the Amer.... Coalitition forces in Iraq. If only we could get these dumbasses in the media to understand that they can tilt this war either way. (Actually, I think they understand that and realize that they will make more by reporting a loss than victory.)
Well, for starters we could get rid of this defeatist attitude in the media, this war needs to be won at home, not in Iraq. In Iraq itself time is our best ally, the insurgency, I am willing to bet, has less endurance and capacity to keep fighting than the Amer.... Coalitition forces in Iraq. If only we could get these dumbasses in the media to understand that they can tilt this war either way. (Actually, I think they understand that and realize that they will make more by reporting a loss than victory.)
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Damien435
Active member
Bory said:
How so?
Besides, still part of the Empire, just because it has evolved doesn't mean it has disapeared all together. I believe it is called the Commonwealth now, or I could just be saying random stuff that barely fits into a sentences because it is 3am and I had a 12 hour shift today, something like that.
AussieNick
Forum Digger
When terror attacks cease in Iraq. Simple.
As for US troops being there for many years, I'd agree with that.
Australia has just agreed to stay on for at least another year, so I'm sure we'll be in it till the end (as long as the damn Labor party doesn't get in, Bomber Beazly won't live up to his nickname).
As for US troops being there for many years, I'd agree with that.
Australia has just agreed to stay on for at least another year, so I'm sure we'll be in it till the end (as long as the damn Labor party doesn't get in, Bomber Beazly won't live up to his nickname).
5.56X45mm
Milforum Mac Daddy
I my humble opinion. Victory is already there. We just have to stop the defeatist attitude within our peoples, media, and government. If we suuport our troops. The terrorist will have little support. Everytime someone anti-war hippie opens his/her mouth. They give the terrorist another chance to recruit another murder bomber.
Iraq is just like germany after WWII. The troops are there helping create a new government. Those that once held power to not want to loose it. And there are those that believe that they can fill in the vacum of power. So as long as our boys and girls fight the good fight, and we support them. WE WILL WIN. BECAUSE WE HAVE ALREADY WON.
Iraq is just like germany after WWII. The troops are there helping create a new government. Those that once held power to not want to loose it. And there are those that believe that they can fill in the vacum of power. So as long as our boys and girls fight the good fight, and we support them. WE WILL WIN. BECAUSE WE HAVE ALREADY WON.
godofthunder9010
Active member
Our numer one objective has been a success. Saddam Hussein is no longer in power, and any potential threat that his regime posed to the United States and the rest of the world is eliminated.
Secondary objective of keeping the peace while a new government is created isn't done yet. We'll see on that one. But since this was not the primary objective, it doesn't change that fact that the operation has already been a success and a victory.
Secondary objective of keeping the peace while a new government is created isn't done yet. We'll see on that one. But since this was not the primary objective, it doesn't change that fact that the operation has already been a success and a victory.
US won the actual war against Saddam Hussain and his redicals but victory over IRAQ is questioned by active insurgency and rising toll in casualties on daily basis.
It can be best described as a settlement, in case US troops start to leave IRAQ in coming years after installing a functioning Iraqi regime. But it is still a long challenge.
It can be best described as a settlement, in case US troops start to leave IRAQ in coming years after installing a functioning Iraqi regime. But it is still a long challenge.
As others have stated, victory has already been won. I too believe that Coalition forces will remain for quite some time, but in a much smaller role. If the embedded reporters would start publishing positive news, instead of looking for any fault that the Coalitian and Iraqi military has, the draw down of troops could begin sooner.
As far as victory over IRAQ, the insurgency is slowing losing steam. Completely eliminate it? Realistically, that's out of the question. All societies have a criminal element that must be dealt with on a continuous basis. Regardless of laws, some bozo will always violate them.
Ron
As far as victory over IRAQ, the insurgency is slowing losing steam. Completely eliminate it? Realistically, that's out of the question. All societies have a criminal element that must be dealt with on a continuous basis. Regardless of laws, some bozo will always violate them.
Ron
Victory is not merely the termination of an invasion, especially when "Freedom and Democracy" is the war cry.
The insurgency or should I say, terrorism, is also a part of the the campaign.
Till that is over, the successful termination of the invasion is merely one part of the show.
If, at this moment, the US quits, then there will hardly be any "Freedom and Democracy".
The genie is out of the bottle. It has to be put back.
The insurgency or should I say, terrorism, is also a part of the the campaign.
Till that is over, the successful termination of the invasion is merely one part of the show.
If, at this moment, the US quits, then there will hardly be any "Freedom and Democracy".
The genie is out of the bottle. It has to be put back.
FO Seaman
Active member
IMO we've won. Now it's time to setup for a long occupation, as we did in Germany, Korea, and Japan.
What needs to happen is we need to have a set ammount of troops stay and rotate them out, while thats going we get the Iraqi Military/Police Force built and have them take care of the house cleaning duties like riots and such, while we take care of the large duties. Basically what we need to do is what we are doing, now all we've got to do is starighten out the media.
What needs to happen is we need to have a set ammount of troops stay and rotate them out, while thats going we get the Iraqi Military/Police Force built and have them take care of the house cleaning duties like riots and such, while we take care of the large duties. Basically what we need to do is what we are doing, now all we've got to do is starighten out the media.
lol... the T's aren't really a big threat. They're more like gang criminals just waiting to be :cen: slapped godofthunder9010
Active member
I'm not exactly a George W Bush enthusiast. I'm not going to go on and on about how great and wonderful he is as a president. But I just barely saw the speach he just made and one small bit of that struck me (I'm not going to get the exact words, cuz this is from memory): There is such a thing as productive criticism, that sees what is wrong and what could be done better. There is also such a thing as defeatism, that only ever sees the what's wrong and never sees anything right. George's speech writer makes a pretty good summary of what lost Vietnam and what can lose us Iraq. Defeatism in the reporting done by the media. We could argue forever about whether it was right or wrong to go into Iraq to begin with, but the one thing that is no help to anyone is the constant cry for immediate and hasty withdrawal from Iraq. Its reckless and stupid, and anyone must be able to piece together what insane bloody chaos we would leave in our wake leaving now.
Hello,
I've been away from the computer for a couple of days, and I'm just now getting caught up. If I may, let me elaborate on why I originally posed the question. In President Bush's recent speaches he often reffers to "when we achieve victory in Iraq". Now I agree with the majority of you that victory in the traditional sense has already been achieved, but this question reffers to the definition of victory that would allow the soldiers to come home. In my opinion the key is the Iraqi army. I beleive the insurgency needs to be subdued to a level that the Iraqi army can handle, while at the same time training said Iraqi army to handle any future heightened insurgency.
I've been away from the computer for a couple of days, and I'm just now getting caught up. If I may, let me elaborate on why I originally posed the question. In President Bush's recent speaches he often reffers to "when we achieve victory in Iraq". Now I agree with the majority of you that victory in the traditional sense has already been achieved, but this question reffers to the definition of victory that would allow the soldiers to come home. In my opinion the key is the Iraqi army. I beleive the insurgency needs to be subdued to a level that the Iraqi army can handle, while at the same time training said Iraqi army to handle any future heightened insurgency.
FULLMETALJACKET
MilForum Bad Apple
Thats why we Arent leaving. Now.
G
G Connor
Guest
One of the lessons of the Powell Doctrine was to establish the definition of "victory" before the engagement, not after. rationalizing victory after the fact harkens back to the "Declare victory and leave" tar-baby of the VietNam era.