Poland is considering to hand over 12 Leo2s without German consent .And 12 Leo2s will not help Ukraine .
Thoughts on the Russo-Ukranian War?
Poland is considering to hand over 12 Leo2s without German consent .And 12 Leo2s will not help Ukraine .
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Strangely I feel Chamberlain is a much maligned character largely without cause, his crime was to attempt to avoid war, something that I am not sure should be a crime.
Many forget that he was the guy that drew a line in the sand over Poland (which he couldn't defend anyway) and he was the one that declared war, he was also responsible for the rearmament of Britain in the late 30s.
We learned that appeasement doesn't work but doing all you can to avoid conflict isn't a bad thing.
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I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
Poland is really building up its armed forces. They have a well trained military and they are on a shopping spree. Their ground forces will increase to be the largest in Europe, they are well integrated in NATO's command structure and use a decentralized command structure.
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
He was politically naive and naive politicians are dangerous. The German gov is quite naive. I understand why Germany doesn't want to disarm itself to arm Ukraine, but it is naive to not allow others with Leo2 to give them to Ukraine.
The British opened the door for tanks, Poland will most likely ignore what the Germans do and give some of their Leos to Ukraine. Especially when they get more K2s and Abrams to replace the Leos. There are a lot of Leo2 A4/A5 in Europe so if Ukraine gets let say ten from each, they will get a significant force. The Ukrainians ask for 300 MBTs, they will probably get about 100 MBTs
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
I have been watching/listening to this news conference. The US chief of staff looks a bit like Leslie Nielsen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e-pH1D7y5I
Ukraine gets a lot of systems. We are talking a lot about the Leo2s, but it is important to remember, tanks are only one system. Ukraine gets the M2 Bradleys and they will be useful for the Ukrainians. The sensors and the AT capability of Bradleys are pretty good. They get Strykers too. There are several different kinds of Strykers so I wonder which types they get. The CV90 will be useful as well, when all these systems work together in battalion battlegroups will help Ukraine to defend itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e-pH1D7y5I
Ukraine gets a lot of systems. We are talking a lot about the Leo2s, but it is important to remember, tanks are only one system. Ukraine gets the M2 Bradleys and they will be useful for the Ukrainians. The sensors and the AT capability of Bradleys are pretty good. They get Strykers too. There are several different kinds of Strykers so I wonder which types they get. The CV90 will be useful as well, when all these systems work together in battalion battlegroups will help Ukraine to defend itself.
Neville was the least naive British politician before the war .Otherwise he would not have become PM . Blair was naive ,very naive, and very ideologised:his ideology decided what he did .
He knew very well what Hitler represented, but as long what Hitler did was not a danger for Britain, he would not react .
That they are integrated in NATO's command structure and use a decentralized command structure in not a proof of their strength :Belgium also in integrated in NATO's command structure and uses a decentralized command structure,but it is military a dwarf .
Economically Germany is a giant compared to Poland .
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I struggle to understand why western MBTs are so important to Ukraine given that by many accounts the fleet they have is comparable to their opposition and they have captured enough to have more than the Russians in the area.
I don't think MBTs are critical to Ukraine's chances of success in comparison to missile, artillery and air defense systems, personally I think longer range missiles would be more useful than tanks.
Having just looked at the German thinking behind not sending tanks it has to be the most shortsighted nonsense I have seen in a while, are they competing with Russia for the title of dumbest thing said by a politician?
Basically we are looking into it but as Ukraine is not attacking right now we have time to talk it over.
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MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I found this interesting, I think the west needs to take a more decisive role in ending this war and I don't believe a "ceasefire" is the way to go, Russia needs to be defeated in Ukraine.
https://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/11223
https://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/11223
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
Yes, it is. How do you know? You have never been in the Belgian military.
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
The Ukrainians were able to push the Russian back in the north and in the south without western MBTs. They are getting more artillery and modern ammunition to the howitzers, to get munition to the HIMARS and MLRS with longer range would most likely be more effective than MBTs. The French CEASAR and the Swedish Archer will make a dent in the Russian ability to supply the Russian forces.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Now it transpires that the South African Navy is joining the Russian and Chinese Navies in exercises, quite where these exercises will take part, I have no idea. Russia has supported the ANC for years, not because they thought Apartheid was wrong, they wanted a foothold in the region.
On frequent occasions Russia were hold training sessions in both the old Black homelands of Transkei and Ciskei. The Apartheid military carried out many operations on their borders.
As far as I am aware South Africa is part of the British Commonwealth, who in my opinion should be kicked out and all financial aid which is considerable, stopped.
On frequent occasions Russia were hold training sessions in both the old Black homelands of Transkei and Ciskei. The Apartheid military carried out many operations on their borders.
As far as I am aware South Africa is part of the British Commonwealth, who in my opinion should be kicked out and all financial aid which is considerable, stopped.
How do you know ?
Belgian manpower :24,676 ,mostly non combat soldiers and mostly non operational
Reserve :2,305 or 5000 ( no one knows )
Tanks :0
Self-propelled artillery : 0
Aircraft : 106 ,of which 69 operational
Fighters :29
Transports :4
Helicopters :13
Trainers : 23
The manpower shortage is that great that in 2030 the retirement age will be raised from 56 to 63 and eventually to 67 .
Source : Global Fire Power
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I think it is great that Russia and China are getting into Africa, the whole region is a giant black hole of corruption and they will both run out of money long before that continent sorts itself out.
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
So with your logic you must realize Poland is militarily stronger than Germany when poland has much more of everything than Germany.
Why don't you join the Belgian military, you would learn a lot if you do.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Umm the comment was that Germany is an economic giant compared to Poland and it is a good point that I have been trying to get my head around since reading Poland's purchasing.
Wanting all this equipment is one thing, paying for it is another.
So what do we have in the western arsenal that can deal with these ships at the range needed and why haven't we given it to Ukraine yet?
https://english.nv.ua/nation/five-r...-sea-says-ukraine-military-news-50299045.html
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I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
Yes, and I agreed to it, but Germany is not a military power when they let its defense decline for a very long time. The latest thing with tanks and not allowing other countries with Leo2s to deliver them to Ukraine makes Germany to loose credibility within NATO despite being the economic power house in the EU.
Poland is really increasing its military, how they are paying for all the stuff? I guess with technological transfers. They are producing the stuff and not only buying. Poland has a well trained military and I suspect they feel forced to pay when their history isn't a pleasant one. The German history puts restraints on the German government, the same history puts the Polish government in different spot and more or less force them to spend a lot more on the defense.
Ukraine got Harpoons a while back, a few Harpoons on a drone can threaten those ships or even the naval drones used against the Russian naval bases can do the trick
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
Ok but buying 1000 tanks is the cheap bit, the expensive part is maintaining and crewing them as that is a constant cost that I am not sure exports of coal and plumbers can cover.
Poland is talking about spending 5% of GDP on the military and I am not sure their economy can handle that.
I am guessing Medvedev will be threatening to nuke the world again soon if these things show up in Ukraine.
https://eurasiantimes.com/russian-military-will-run-for-cover-supply-deadly-glsdb/?amp
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I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
They aren't only buying MBTs, they are buying a lot of other things as well. South Korean MLRS, howitzers, planes. They are buying the F-35, I don't know how modern their F-16s are. But they are spending a lot. Can they afford all these stuff? I don't know, and i don't care. The Polish economy is pretty decent, so I assume they can afford it all.
Poland has been invaded quite often and they are very anti-Russian (wonder why) so they might feel forced to be militarily strong and having the spending pants on
I said that Germany is economically much stronger than Poland
oland has German tanks, Germany has not Polish tanks .The Polish industry can not built modern tanks .GDP of Germany :4260,0 billion USD for a population of 83 million people
GDP of Poland : 680 billion USD for a population of 38 million people
The GDP of Poland is 15 % of that of Germany. Its population is 45 % of that of Germany .