The War of 1812

Who won?

  • Great Britain won

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • The United States won

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Nobody won

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    0
G

godofthunder9010

Active member
Who won the War of 1812? Some say that the United States won. Some say that the British won. Most people call it a draw. But what is the truth?

The United States had its capital burned to the ground ... and yet Washington D.C. in those days was nowhere nearly as important as Richmond, Boston or New York City. Unlike Europe, this was no game of capture the flag. The rule that "if you take my capital, you win" just simply didn't apply. The Americans fought on without any pause without their capital city. It was a new capital, and its hard to say how central D.C. to the United States. It could be argued that its destruction helped solidify its importance, like a slain hero in battle or such.

At the Battle of New Orleans, the Amercians butchered the Britsh. The war was over but neither side at New Orleans was aware of this fact. Despite not having occurred during the war, it added greater strength to the United States position while negotiating the peace.

To my knowledge, the only losses were that England agreed to leave the Ohio River Valley completely. Previously, they had some degree of disputed access. Also, the northern border with Canada was clearly defined and agreed upon ... farther north that the British had previously claimed. There were no territory gains made by the British.
 
I wish I could dive into this topic, but my time is short. I say no one. Here is a post of mine from a different thread that states my view.

The Revolutionary War may have been the war that gave birth to the United States, but the War of 1812 proved we were here to stay. Militarily, the Revolutionary War was horrible. Washington spent most of this time running from the British. His only major victory came at Yorktown with the aid of French fleet and the French Army. After the war ended, the military was reduced to a meager size. The War of 1812 did not start well for the Americans. Although the Americans won a few single ship engagements, the entire east coast was blockaded. The first invasion into Canada failed in 1812. We invaded and burned York, but the British did the same to Washington DC. Captain Perry won a decisive battle on Lake Erie by rowing to another ship in the middle of battle, saving the day. The invasion of Canada in July 1814 proved that American regulars could stand muzzle to muzzle with British regulars. The American Regulars were dressed in cadet uniforms since the US government had no other uniforms available. The British first thought these soldiers were militia. They quickly changed their minds after seeing the soldiers perform under fire. The British were routed at Chippewa, but they were able to hold the Americans at Lundy Lane. The official outcome is a draw. This engagement may seem small, but it proved that Americans could hold their ground on even terms. The American military was here to stay.
 
The US declared war to stop the British from screwin' with our merchant ships, right? They agreed to stop after the war? Then mission accomplished USA.

But if you want to talk damage, then the British wins that with the whole DC thing and pillaging all those villages, damn.
 
Even from your first post you don't really understand how this war plays into the creation of Canada. It wasn't just a war fought by Great Britian, in fact most of land battles were fought by Canadian militia and Natives( in 1812 and 1813), who were out numbered by their American foe. This war also plays into nationalism whos view of history you want to believe more. For Americans its that you won or that it was draw. For Canada it was win because a small group of armed colonial troops kept you have invading and taking over the Canadian colonies. many American fail to remember that was part of war, to put of North American under the US flag... the US lost. British never had a goal of expanding Upper and Lower Canada, just keeping what had, and in that they succussful.

As a Canadian National, I know that Canada won this war. Americans just have a hard time at looking at the facts and realizing that yes indeed they lost to a handful British Regulars, Canadian Militia, and Canadian natives. Just by being able to get a treaty signed and the war stopped is a victory, because theUS was over 10 times larger than Canada and was unable to take over. The Battle of New Orleans, doesn't factor in this because it was fought after the peace treaty and its effects therefore didn't play into the treaty, as the war over by 1815.

The war ended in a stalemate with, the Treaty of Ghent, signed in Belgium on December 24, 1814, returned all conquered territory, so that the situation was the same as it had been in 1812. The big difference was that the people in the British colonies, especially Upper and Lower Canada, had gained a sense of nationhood. Together, they had fought to repel an invader, and this gave them a new pride and caused them to think of themselves as Canadians, identifying with the land in which they lived rather than in the countries they had come from. THis why from a Canadian view point the war was won by Canada.

Here is quick list of the battles

1812
JUne 18 US declares war on GB including Upper and Lower Canada.
JUly 12 US forces cross Detroit river
July 17 capture of michilimackinac ( US lose)
Aug 16 Siege of Detroit by 600 Can and Native forces, it surrenders with out a fight.
Oct 13 The British, and Can Militia led by Brock and General Roger Sheaffe, repulse an American invasion at Queenston Heights. Brock is killed

1813
Apr27 American fleet on Lake Ontario captures York [Toronto], burning the Parliament Building

May-DEc Americans take Fort George but are driven back at the battles of Stoney Creek (June 6) and Beaver Dams (June 24)
Sept 10 American navy defeats British at Put-In-Bay on Lake Erie
Oct-NOv American advance on Montreal defeated at Châteauguay (Oct 26) by Colonel Charles de Salaberry, and at Crysler's Farm (Nov 11) by Colonel Joseph Morrison

July US forces again invade Niagara peninsula but defeated at Lundy's Lane (July 25)
Aug British troops land near Washington, D.C., and burn the White House and Capitol building
Sept The British, led by Sir George Prevost, strike south, but are defeated at Plattsburg on Lake Champlain
Dec 24Treaty of Ghent ends the war and restores the boundaries to their positions at the beginning of the war
 
I didn't know we declared war on Canada, I just thought it was Britian. I thought that by declaring war on Britian, it's an auto-go for the colonies in Canada. I never really thought of it as two allied countries against the US.

Reminds me a bit of the Korean war, and China's claim to victory.
 
Chocobo_Blitzer said:
The US declared war to stop the British from screwin' with our merchant ships, right? They agreed to stop after the war? Then mission accomplished USA.

But if you want to talk damage, then the British wins that with the whole DC thing and pillaging all those villages, damn.
Click to expand...

I think you'll find the real war aim of the USA was to drive the British out of North America.Time was running out,Napoleon was losing in Europe so somthing had to be done.

The merchant ship reason was only part of it,and it was legitimate for the British to blockade Europe.

So I guess the war aims of the USA failed as Britain remained in Canada and the Caribbean,but the British counterattack also failed(despite Washington burning)at the time of New Orleans the war was already over.

So lets call it draw.
 
One interesting point of the War of 1812(which was fought mostly in 1814).It nearly cost Britain the Waterloo campaign in 1815 by denying Wellington use of most of his invincible Peninsular Army.
At Waterloo he was very reliant on foriegn troops,but did win the day,just.
 
Whatever the aim of either side, neither side accomplished their goal. The United States lost no land and gained a bit of respect, so making the statement that they lost is a bit unreasonable. They did try to invade Canada, but frankly, it was never executed intelligently, nor was it attempted with any great enthusiasm. The US had enough troubles facing one of the most powerful natiions in the world at the time. The US was lucky to come out as well as they did.
 
"They did try to invade Canada, but frankly, it was never executed intelligently, nor was it attempted with any great enthusiasm"

Actually their goal was to take over the colonies and drive the british out of North America, and the US failed to do so. But you are right in that the US never went about the invassion in an intelligent manner and the war did have the enthusiam of other US wars in the 19 century. The way I see it, because the war was poorly planned and because US forces were forced out of out of Canada each and everytime, it makes it a victory for Canada... as far as the land war goes.

This war be debated for ever if you want, because stands people take have more to do with their national view of the facts. Doing a poll on this subject doesn't really matter much either because the majority of forum members are from the US, and I don't believe they make an educated choice on this subject. It would be same if this forum was full of Canadians... only the out come would be for a Canadian victory.
 
What I find interesting is that ONLY Canadians seem to universally claim victory. People from Great Britain most often call it a draw. I'm very interested in finding out why this is. Also, many Americans claim victory. I don't understand this either.

Actually their goal was to take over the colonies and drive the british out of North America, and the US failed to do so.
Click to expand...
I am familiar with the Monroe Doctrine, but I've never heard of this being the primary reason/goal for the War of 1812. I believe it had a lot more to do with the Brits doing so not so considerate things, etc.
Doing a poll on this subject doesn't really matter much either because the majority of forum members are from the US.
Click to expand...
Of course, that's irrelevant to me. I'm not putting forward the poll as a basis of proving anything via majority vote, I'm trying to get people to site facts to prove their points. If you can give me a compelling reason to believe that the British won the War of 1812, you just might force me to rethink my opinion of it.
 
Hm

The war of 1812 is barely known in Great Britain. The American Revolutionary war is much better known but seen as a civil war in many respects. Films like the ludicrious and racist "The Patriot" has seen revived interest but the events of 1812 remain obscured.
We did hold a function last June in the Mess where we burnt a model of the White House but one of the American officers got all upset and threw his teddy around so we didnt bother this year sadly.
A shame since we all attended the 4 July bash and didnt whine.
 
If the british arm had not had napoleon to deal with then the war of 1812 would probably of been costly for the US, but they did gain a lot of respect in the one-on-one ship combats and ships like the USS constitution proved themselves to be a big threat.
 
Shadowalker said:
If the british arm had not had napoleon to deal with then the war of 1812 would probably of been costly for the US, but they did gain a lot of respect in the one-on-one ship combats and ships like the USS constitution proved themselves to be a big threat.
Click to expand...

Amercan ships chose their battles well,they only fought smaller opponents.
No American ship in the War of 1812 did, after all, capture a British ship of the same force.
 
They even lied to show themselves being better, the USS constitution took on 2 sloops, cyane and levant and won, but the captain commissoned a picture showing him taking on 2 frigates which was published in america and regarded as being accurate.
 
Well, those of us who know more about history than that know one very important thing -- the United States was lucky that Great Britain was busy doing something else. Still, there is no reasonable basis for making the statement that "Great Britain won." Peace negotiations involved a more clear definition of borders and the Brits agreed to respect the sovereignty of the United States on the high seas. That's about it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top