Smart concrete

Wow that was rather a whiny response still I guess you cant remove a national trait no matter how many years you spend overseas.

What's the matter Monty, don't you like being corrected? Now that certainly shows your national trait.:smil: Never mind, keep taking the tablets.

We don't whine, we leave that to the kiwi's. Isn't whining your national sport?

What I would suggest is that you pay close attention to that "Tongue in Cheek" break down and see if you can find another post in this thread it may apply to.

So you can learn what it actually means? I'll see what I can do.:lol:
 
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Wow, how many enemy I have!? If you think target the function or the inhabitants of the bunker is a way because you can’t target the structure, so we have a lot of ways to deal with your stealth planes or your other advanced weapons. As well as that we are completely ready for worst conditions and we have suitable plan for any scenario.
Well, as I can understand from your posts you are too confident to your politicians and militaries decisions. So it is better to have a look to their decisions results in ME.
In 2006 Israel-Hezbollah, Israel wanted to destroy Hezbollah military power in one day but what happened? If you want to know, read winograd commission report.
11/9 gave a good excuse to attack to Iraq to have another puppet in the region. WMD excuse was just for demagoguery. Well what was the result?
In Arab spring west lost some of their friends because they couldn’t support them. On the other hand Iran is increasing her influence in the region. For example now we have good plans for Yemen.
They attack to Afghanistan for 11/9 but they couldn’t destroy Al-Qaeda network and I think Al-Qaeda is stronger than before.
Aren’t these examples enough?
 
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Wow, how many enemy I have!? If you think target the function or the inhabitants of the bunker is a way because you can’t target the structure, so we have a lot of ways to deal with your stealth planes or your other advanced weapons. As well as that we are completely ready for worst conditions and we have suitable plan for any scenario.

Plans are good to have - the problem is that the enemy rarely follows these plans and it is dangerous to overestimate one's own potential.
You can never be sure of the things you don't know. Your opponent may have something up their sleeve that you didn't see coming.
 
You mean something like this? One error, it's not the biggest ever made. At the Eglin AFB Air Armament Museum there's a 44,000 lb bomb on display.
 
What's the matter Monty, don't you like being corrected? Now that certainly shows your national trait.:smil: Never mind, keep taking the tablets.

We don't whine, we leave that to the kiwi's. Isn't whining your national sport?

To be corrected would require at least one of two things:
A) That you were superior.
B) That you were right.

Unfortunately in this case you are neither and your attack on the original poster is the one thing in this thread that needs correction.

To back this up compare the two following quotes.

To be honest guys, this bloke is a moronic pillock, ignore him and he will eventually go away.

3. The following are not accepted in posts, but not limited to; Flaming, Baiting, Name Calling, Country Bashing, Spamming, Hate or Racism

Now since you asked our national sport is rugby union at which we are both world champions and have been ranked number one for 10 of the last 13 years, interestingly enough it is a sport that you guys invented but just don't seem to be any good at.

Thanks for asking.


Plans are good to have - the problem is that the enemy rarely follows these plans and it is dangerous to overestimate one's own potential.
You can never be sure of the things you don't know. Your opponent may have something up their sleeve that you didn't see coming.

Exactly in this case I would assume the plan to deal with any "indestructible" facilities would be to isolate it initially and then destroy it at a time when it can be focused on.


You mean something like this? One error, it's not the biggest ever made. At the Eglin AFB Air Armament Museum there's a 44,000 lb bomb on display.

But as pointed out weapons are built to deal with the known, it is the unknown that causes the problems you only have to look at the history of warfare to see that one side builds a weapon and the other counters.
The reality is that at this point we don't know what counter measures Iran has come up with who knows maybe they have found a miracle concrete or maybe they haven't.
 
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This is my take on this issue. What I see is two sides of this...

Side 1
Iran- this is one country with a long history and WAS a superpower in ancient times. Unfortunately, some people tends to forget that that was in the past... Iran has long been known to proclaim many things but thats what it does- proclaim. Yup, it does produce all those things that it claim, like planes and ships and vehicles, but if you look closely, those are old technologies rehashed. They clam to have made improvements, but that is what they claimed, and it remains as that. To add further to the complication, they have these theologians who thinks that by saying verses from the Holy Book, things will be done according to their desire...

Side Two
West (I will focus on the US for this)- Many people seems to have the idea that becasue Americans are chaotic in their politics, therefore they lack willpower to carry out military activities against their adversaries. Many people like to quote Vietnam War as a failure on the American military- I will tell you now, they did not lose that war from a military standpoint. They did what they had to do, and they did exactly that. The first Gulf war showed what they really can do, and I suspect that is only a portion of what they are really capable of.

Hamid, there is an old saying- there is more than one way to skin a cat. Believe me, that saying is indeed true. You can take down an advesary in many ways you can imagine- the question is simple- what are you prepared to do to achieve that?

In today's concept of defence, the static defence is no longer a viable option. As the Americans would say, you can run, but you can't hide...
 
Side 1
Iran- this is one country with a long history and WAS a superpower in ancient times. Unfortunately, some people tends to forget that that was in the past...

One day if the U.S.'s financial burdens overwhelm military spending we to , just like the Soviets, just like the British, just like the Romans will utilize our glory days as a selling point for political agendas. People like to relive good times, from college dropouts to prison inmates. Especially if you don't have a bright future laid out before you.

And we all know how America likes to sell things.

Iran has long been known to proclaim many things but thats what it does- proclaim. Yup, it does produce all those things that it claim, like planes and ships and vehicles, but if you look closely, those are old technologies rehashed.

Politically motivated, and showing off to other Iranian party members, just grabbing straws. Typical Amatuers.



They clam to have made improvements, but that is what they claimed, and it remains as that. To add further to the complication, they have these theologians who thinks that by saying verses from the Holy Book, things will be done according to their desire...

This isn't David Versus Golaith,

This is getting thrown out of a bar in front of your drinking buddies by a huge bouncer.

Side Two
West (I will focus on the US for this)- Many people seems to have the idea that becasue Americans are chaotic in their politics, therefore they lack willpower to carry out military activities against their adversaries. Many people like to quote Vietnam War as a failure on the American military- I will tell you now, they did not lose that war from a military standpoint. They did what they had to do, and they did exactly that. The first Gulf war showed what they really can do, and I suspect that is only a portion of what they are really capable of.

Unfortunatley for one man he unleashed his highly trained and well equipped military to run all over a continent. Then he ran it ragged and bit off a whole lot more than he could handle.

Reason being is that war entails more than the military of any given soceity, especially today.

Buying power in modern war against a uniformed adversary is king, not necessarly having the best stuff, but the money to buy the batteries.

Patience by adversaries is the biggest threat to the U.S., not direct action,

Which Iran seems to have no concept of.

Asymetrical warefare is another volume of another series however.

Hamid, there is an old saying- there is more than one way to skin a cat.

Your saying it wrong, it's pronouced "Der Iz more dan wun way of skinninz a kat"

An you cun take dat to that char bank.

Believe me, that saying is indeed true. You can take down an advesary in many ways you can imagine- the question is simple- what are you prepared to do to achieve that?

Iran is prepared, to try, not to do anything that would achieve their goals but to jump the gun and screw the pooch right out of the gates.

Thats what they are unknowingly shooting at... Once again, Amatuers.

In today's concept of defence, the static defence is no longer a viable option. As the Americans would say, you can run, but you can't hide...

Exactly, they don't have to run, nor hide. Because if they where half sane, or at least trying they would calm down, make more international partners to depend on them for resources.

Gain their support and wait for America's replacement as the world's ecnomic leader.

Once that happens you use your new freindships to help achieve by finacince a new future where Iran is on the road to be the leading player in the Middle East.

If they had the say and what on ecnomic flows in this region than I garuntee you that other players in the region would come to them for economic matters. Which is a statement in itself.

On a larger scale, this is how the U.S. undercut the Soviet Union.

America saw all those Soviet tanks and planes, knew the numbers, and knew that victory would mean the end of civilization.

Administrations from Truman onward went strait to work, because the U.S. knew time was on it's side.

So what did they do? Carefully under cut, and buy out economic channels for their economy and eventually pushed the ecnomically isolated USSR into internal turmoil.

Then almost over night, all those T 72s, and BMPs, and millions of Soviet Soldiers over the wall became irrelevant.

America's "problem" was solved, without firing a single round over the wall.

China seems to be understanding this for it's goals in East Asia.

You'd think Iran would learn about this method sooner or later as well.

Cause America can spend a whole lot, but obviously this can't go on forever.

And obviously force will become a very attractive option when they instead build nuclear facilities and launch submarines in Iran. Which both are A.K.A "military targets". All that is needed afterwards is "justification".
 
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To be corrected would require at least one of two things:
A) That you were superior.
B) That you were right.

Unfortunately in this case you are neither and your attack on the original poster is the one thing in this thread that needs correction.

So you are saying the RAF didn't sink the Tirpitz or destroyed the Bielefeld Viaduct? Then there are the U Boat pens with concrete 23 feet thick that was destroyed. OK Einstein show me where I was wrong. I suggest that you get your history books out and start reading, because quite frankly you are wrong................again. If you wish I can post sites that contain all the above information. Just let me know, I'll be happy to oblige.:smile:

Yes I am proud of serving in the RAF, I am very proud of my cap badge. By the way, what cap badge do you have to be proud of?

"My attack" (your words not mine)on hamidreza the man is a trouble maker and needs to be treated as such. However, I did not insult his country OR nationality, neither did I infer that ALL Iranians are moronic pillocks.

To back this up compare the two following quotes.

The following are not accepted in posts, but not limited to; Flaming, Baiting, Name Calling, Country Bashing, Spamming, Hate or Racism.

Ah the pot calling the kettle black.

Just to remind you and I quote

“Wow that was rather a whiny response still I guess you cant remove a national trait no matter how many years you spend overseas.

No country bashing or name calling???? Aren't you implying all Englishmen are whiners as a national trait? Isn't that name calling and country bashing? Are you saying its OK for you to name call and start country bashing? You need to get over yourself and heed your own advice sunbeam.

As for NZ being ranked number one for the last 10 years in Rugby. Who gives a toss? I don't. Yes we invented rugby, we also invented a lot of other sports we are not particularly good at. So what? Do I care, am I heartbroken, will I lose sleep over it? Nope, quite honestly I couldn't care less.

You really don't like being proved wrong and being corrected Monty, isn't that one of your national traits? Just asking, not implying anything of course.:smile:

Oh by the way, did you look up what "Tongue in cheek means?"

Keep taking the tablets, I hope you get well soon.
 
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Wait a sec I think there is a jet landing in the back yard...
Nope sorry the whining was you my bad.
 
I really thought you were more intelligent then that Monty, but I guess I should have expected such a silly response from you.

How odd you didn't refute any of my post, maybe its because you know you can't so you have to revert to insults again. Remember your own post?

"3. The following are not accepted in posts, but not limited to; Flaming, Baiting, Name Calling, Country Bashing, Spamming, Hate or Racism."

Now stop being a childish silly Billy or you'll go to bed with no supper.:-P
 
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This is my take on this issue. What I see is two sides of this...

Side 1
Iran- this is one country with a long history and WAS a superpower in ancient times. Unfortunately, some people tends to forget that that was in the past... Iran has long been known to proclaim many things but thats what it does- proclaim. Yup, it does produce all those things that it claim, like planes and ships and vehicles, but if you look closely, those are old technologies rehashed. They clam to have made improvements, but that is what they claimed, and it remains as that. To add further to the complication, they have these theologians who thinks that by saying verses from the Holy Book, things will be done according to their desire...

Side Two
West (I will focus on the US for this)- Many people seems to have the idea that becasue Americans are chaotic in their politics, therefore they lack willpower to carry out military activities against their adversaries. Many people like to quote Vietnam War as a failure on the American military- I will tell you now, they did not lose that war from a military standpoint. They did what they had to do, and they did exactly that. The first Gulf war showed what they really can do, and I suspect that is only a portion of what they are really capable of.

Hamid, there is an old saying- there is more than one way to skin a cat. Believe me, that saying is indeed true. You can take down an advesary in many ways you can imagine- the question is simple- what are you prepared to do to achieve that?

In today's concept of defence, the static defence is no longer a viable option. As the Americans would say, you can run, but you can't hide...

I know much better than you our weapons conditions. I know very well that most of our planes, ships, submarines, tanks and other weapons have old technology. I know very well than our space activities and our nuclear technologies are in it first stages.
But I know well we are in our first steps. I know for 34 years we are in sanction condition. I know our military budget is about 15 billion dollar while our population is 75 million and we are faced with a lot of threats. We have learned how to spend our money in these 34 years after revolution. We plan our defensive politics based on our requirements, our abilities and our budget. Not bad reading this text:
http://news.yahoo.com/us-quietly-prepares-naval-clash-iran-strait-hormuz-184223202.html
And we have good progress in our missile technology, radar technology, air defense systems, electronic war system, cyber systems, drone technology and many other things although we are in the beginning but we have found the way. In one statement we have learnt to be bold, have self-confidence and trust to ourselves.
Before Iran revolution, Iran Air force was forth in the world. But what happened after a war with Iraq for our air force. We almost lost our air force. Why? Because our air force was completely depended on to the US counselors and their auxiliary parts. Our air force was forth on paper but in fact it wasn’t even fortieth. It is the thing US wants from others.

But now in sanction condition it is not bad to know we were top of the world in science growth last year. And it is good to know 60% of our students in our universities are female!
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20291-iran-is-top-of-the-world-in-science-growth.html

As I can understand from your posts most of you didn’t hear anything about Iran’s concrete used in Frodo. Yes we may have some other things in our sleeve that you didn’t see coming. If we didn’t have, military attack would be the first choice for US not last one.
Let me tell you another thing. One month ago Kenya canceled one lucrative contract with Iran because of the US threat. Not because of US better contract suggestion or US financial help but because of US threat! Iran’s nuclear activity doesn’t have any effect on Kenya security. I would be so glad if they canceled the contract because of some economic privileges. We have a lot of country who scare from US and don’t dare to defense their right and it is because their people aren't brave. And when we criticize them they say: No it is a wisely decision you can’t understand. They think the God created them to be always obedient in their short time of life. At least live like a man for one time.
 
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Plans are good to have - the problem is that the enemy rarely follows these plans and it is dangerous to overestimate one's own potential.
You can never be sure of the things you don't know. Your opponent may have something up their sleeve that you didn't see coming.


No battle plan survives its first contact with the enemy. I don't remember who said it first.

All buildings have weak spots, normally the entrance, ventilations etc. Furthermore, there is no earthquake safe buildings; everything the humans have built can be destroyed by nature. Probably we haven't seen all the destruction power this planet can produce.

George; Perhaps its here if somebody wants to collect smart concrete, I don't know
 
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No battle plan survives its first contact with the enemy. I don't remember who said it first.
"No plan of operations extends with certainty beyond the first encounter with the enemy's main strength" (or "no plan survives contact with the enemy")
Helmuth Karl Bernhard Graf von Moltke
 
It was my mistake but I dont know how I move it to another section.

If you go to this link...

http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/questions-forum-suggestion-box-25/

and make a post saying that you put it in the wrong place with a link to the thread you want moved I am sure a mod will move it where it should go.

No battle plan survives its first contact with the enemy. I don't remember who said it first.

All buildings have weak spots, normally the entrance, ventilations etc. Furthermore, there is no earthquake safe buildings; everything the humans have built can be destroyed by nature. Probably we haven't seen all the destruction power this planet can produce.

While I personally find it hard to believe there is an object that cant be destroyed I would point out that the same school of thought has existed throughout history, who would have thought 200,000 years ago the rock wasn't going to be all powerful, who would have thought in 1914 that within 25 years armoured monsters would be ruling battlefields or that the Battleship was a thing of the past.

The reality is that new weapons breed new defences which in turn breed new weapons and so on.

So to quote Lao Tzu - There is no greater disaster than to underestimate your enemy.
 
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If you go to this link...

http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/questions-forum-suggestion-box-25/

and make a post saying that you put it in the wrong place with a link to the thread you want moved I am sure a mod will move it where it should go.



While I personally find it hard to believe there is an object that cant be destroyed I would point out that the same school of thought has existed throughout history, who would have thought 200,000 years ago the rock wasn't going to be all powerful, who would have thought in 1914 that within 25 years armoured monsters would be ruling battlefields or that the Battleship was a thing of the past.

The reality is that new weapons breed new defences which in turn breed new weapons and so on.

So to quote Lao Tzu - There is no greater disaster than to underestimate your enemy.


Exactly , and why you don't want to try and out run who's best at this game right off the start.

global%20Hawk%20Block%2040.jpg



Technological advancment of armed conflict throughout history has been developed around breakthroughs in offensive capabilities.

The sword led to plate armor, the firearm broke this , the ballistics vest follows.

The Tank led to the Panzerfaust, the F 4 Phantom to the S 200.

The IED to the up Armor Hummvee and MRAP.

This chain is endless. All defensive systems hail in one way or another to a previously devised threat.

The bomb makes the bunker. Not the other way around.
 
Exactly , and why you don't want to try and out run who's best at this game right off the start.

Technological advancment of armed conflict throughout history has been developed around breakthroughs in offensive capabilities.

The sword led to plate armor, the firearm broke this , the ballistics vest follows.

The Tank led to the Panzerfaust, the F 4 Phantom to the S 200.

The IED to the up Armor Hummvee and MRAP.

This chain is endless. All defensive systems hail in one way or another to a previously devised threat.

The bomb makes the bunker. Not the other way around.

If we shared that view the world would never have gone anywhere, it is human nature to look at your neighbour and try and out do him no matter whether it be lawn mowers or bunker busting bombs.

As far as the bomb making the bunker you are right but in every case there is a point where the bunker out does the existing bomb, a good example of this is LeE and Brits insistence on discussing the British WW2 bombs such as the Tallboy but these bombs only became essential once there existing bombs became ineffectual so in that case the bunker made the bomb.
 
If we shared that view the world would never have gone anywhere, it is human nature to look at your neighbour and try and out do him no matter whether it be lawn mowers or bunker busting bombs.

I never said Iran nor any other power couldn't do it, it will happen, be it years or decades, it will.

Just it is a most foolish folly to let your stride ride out far ahead of your capabilities of the moment when blowing hot air about grand military ambitions in the region at the present.


As far as the bomb making the bunker you are right but in every case there is a point where the bunker out does the existing bomb, a good example of this is LeE and Brits insistence on discussing the British WW2 bombs such as the Tallboy but these bombs only became essential once there existing bombs became ineffectual so in that case the bunker made the bomb.

You stated one link in the evolution of offensive technology over defensive measures.

There will always be cases of defense blowing off offense, and a new offesnive system will be created to nullifiy that defense.

Iran's super hardened nuclear facilities will create the next generation of bunker busting weapons should they choose war as their next political option. If this genre of weapons is not already being researched.

Once it's busted new bunkers will maybe be built thicker or using other protective measures to counter this new threat.

Hell this has even put U.S. goverment bunkers out of commission due to vulnerability back in the 50's and 60's as weapon technology progressed.

This race is demostrated many times by our ancestors.

In battleships this led to torpedo bulges and thicker armor. Followed by using more torpedoes and air planes to over come their protective measures.

For modern firearms there is the ever going struggle to create lighter and more effective protective wear for warfighters around the globe.

The modern Fighter jet created the SAM, and the stealth fighter to evade those SAM's.

The SR 71 for instance, was over come by more advanced SAM's and interceptor fighters. Thus military satelites became common place.

Everywhere you turn in the realm of armed conlfict's assossiated technology you will see these recurring patterns.
 
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