Should bin Laden have been captured and tried? (Reuters)
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
A better ending than he deserved .....
Personally ... I prefer it this way ... Osama Bin Laden is dead and buried at sea.
Had we captured him, we would have had to put up with the constant bombardment of extremist Muslim propoganda via Al Jazeera. Because of the slowness of our court system, Osama Bin Laden's trial could have been delayed for a long long time. Even had his trial taken place almost immediately, he could have been imprisoned, undergone numerous appeals .. and then died of old age (escaping justice as far as I am concerned).
On top of that, there are hundreds of terrorist enemies and terrorist cells, who would think nothing of kidnapping people and then beheading them one at a time and broadcasting the murders in an attempt to force the release of Bin Laden.
Trying Bin Laden, finding him guilty and then sentencing him to death for his crimes, WOULD have definitely made him a martyr. His death as a consequences of being tried by our courts, would have created a whole new generation of terrorists.
As a consequences of Osama being killed and then almost immediately being buried, justice has been served. It was proportional (an eye for an eye), it was immediate (a bullet to the head), and there is no body for Al Qaeda to use for a martyr's memorial or a martyr's grave site (he was prepared for burial and then buried at sea).
Bottom line ... justice was served and the search for Enemy Number One is over. ALL Americans can finally put a period to the 9/11 attack. The planner was hunted down BY US FORCES and is dead. To most Americans, the story couldn't have had a better ending.
Personally ... I prefer it this way ... Osama Bin Laden is dead and buried at sea.
Had we captured him, we would have had to put up with the constant bombardment of extremist Muslim propoganda via Al Jazeera. Because of the slowness of our court system, Osama Bin Laden's trial could have been delayed for a long long time. Even had his trial taken place almost immediately, he could have been imprisoned, undergone numerous appeals .. and then died of old age (escaping justice as far as I am concerned).
On top of that, there are hundreds of terrorist enemies and terrorist cells, who would think nothing of kidnapping people and then beheading them one at a time and broadcasting the murders in an attempt to force the release of Bin Laden.
Trying Bin Laden, finding him guilty and then sentencing him to death for his crimes, WOULD have definitely made him a martyr. His death as a consequences of being tried by our courts, would have created a whole new generation of terrorists.
As a consequences of Osama being killed and then almost immediately being buried, justice has been served. It was proportional (an eye for an eye), it was immediate (a bullet to the head), and there is no body for Al Qaeda to use for a martyr's memorial or a martyr's grave site (he was prepared for burial and then buried at sea).
Bottom line ... justice was served and the search for Enemy Number One is over. ALL Americans can finally put a period to the 9/11 attack. The planner was hunted down BY US FORCES and is dead. To most Americans, the story couldn't have had a better ending.
senojekips
Active member
I suppose it is very easy to say that, "they should have done this" or "they should have done that", but I do believe that they would have taken him alive if possible, in fact I think that was their primary aim, otherwise why bother with the boots on the ground attack.
The powers that be, could have merely dropped a JDAM on the place, or hit it with a cruise missile, with little risk to life or limb for the troops involved. I think that it's a no brainer,... of course their first priority was to take him alive if possible. I'm sure they could have scraped up enough gore to get a DNA sample for proof had they have decided to follow this course of action.
The powers that be, could have merely dropped a JDAM on the place, or hit it with a cruise missile, with little risk to life or limb for the troops involved. I think that it's a no brainer,... of course their first priority was to take him alive if possible. I'm sure they could have scraped up enough gore to get a DNA sample for proof had they have decided to follow this course of action.
Re: Should bin Laden have been captured and tried? (Reuters)
I would like to know what is required in an Islamic burial at sea?
Well.... there is NATO and many European countries which could have conducted this raid but, didn't. I have a difficult time believing that no European (including Russia) intelligence service detected that compound. The CIA did and America acted on the intelligence.
If photos are released, the doubters will say they were 'photo-shopped'!
I would like to know what is required in an Islamic burial at sea?
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
I am NOT sure that the Muslim religion specifically believes in a burial at sea.
As far as what is required for a Muslim funeral ... the body is completely washed, various oils etc are rubbed into the body, then a white shroud is used to wrap the body. This is a tradition that goes back to the time of Mohamad. American forces followed Muslim tradition and did the washing and wrapping, read over the body from the Koran and then the body was buried at sea.
As to turning the body over to relatives for a conventional burial, I think that idea has been discussed ad-nauseum. A burial at sea, stops any possibility of a martyr's funeral or a martyr's grave site ... something that would have happened in Bin Laden's case.
As far as what is required for a Muslim funeral ... the body is completely washed, various oils etc are rubbed into the body, then a white shroud is used to wrap the body. This is a tradition that goes back to the time of Mohamad. American forces followed Muslim tradition and did the washing and wrapping, read over the body from the Koran and then the body was buried at sea.
As to turning the body over to relatives for a conventional burial, I think that idea has been discussed ad-nauseum. A burial at sea, stops any possibility of a martyr's funeral or a martyr's grave site ... something that would have happened in Bin Laden's case.
To the best of my knowledge it does not support a burial at sea unless there are no other options. But I could be wrong about that.
If it really was him, I betcha they'd have pics and even his body present, not caring if it offends anyone's religion (not should they care).
But I would hope they would at least allow him a fair trial.
If it really was him, I betcha they'd have pics and even his body present, not caring if it offends anyone's religion (not should they care).
But I would hope they would at least allow him a fair trial.
GHR
Active member
A Bin Laden Trial? What a Circus!
Normally you put a premium on capturing high profile targets because information is the true prize. Then why does some continue to wonder why the SEAL´s shoot Osama bin Laden? For a civilian it might not be understandable but for a soldier, it makes sense. You only accept surrender "if the target don´t pose any type of threat whatsoever," and if you are "confident of that in terms of him not having some type of hidden weapon or whatever on his body."
I think it serves the Americans honor in choosing to give him a "burial at sea" (a sacred term) when talking about this piece of garbage that should have been taken to the fantail and dumped.
And as my grandfather says, now I have two dates that fills me with joy. The first one is April 30, 1945.
Congratulations on a job well done.
Normally you put a premium on capturing high profile targets because information is the true prize. Then why does some continue to wonder why the SEAL´s shoot Osama bin Laden? For a civilian it might not be understandable but for a soldier, it makes sense. You only accept surrender "if the target don´t pose any type of threat whatsoever," and if you are "confident of that in terms of him not having some type of hidden weapon or whatever on his body."
I think it serves the Americans honor in choosing to give him a "burial at sea" (a sacred term) when talking about this piece of garbage that should have been taken to the fantail and dumped.
And as my grandfather says, now I have two dates that fills me with joy. The first one is April 30, 1945.
Congratulations on a job well done.
84RFK
Active member
Dead, and buried at sea, that means end of story for Osama Bin Laden.
No shrine, no martyrs grave, no hostages taken and killed in order to have him released.
Osama Bin Laden captured alive and tried in any kind of court...that option opens an enormous can of worms, and would mean years of suffering worldwide.
No shrine, no martyrs grave, no hostages taken and killed in order to have him released.
Osama Bin Laden captured alive and tried in any kind of court...that option opens an enormous can of worms, and would mean years of suffering worldwide.
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
If you think that "three ring circus" opens vistas of lions and tigers and elephants ... you have no idea of the zoo and circus an Osama Bin Laden trial would have been.
All we have to put up with, is a circus of the 'usual' conspiracy nuts - which is much easier to ignore than having a live Bin Laden and all of the problems that would have created.
At least this way, as 84 says ... dead, buried at sea, end of the story .. no shrine, no martyr's grave, no hostages.
senojekips
Active member
There are still plenty of places that will become "attractions" if not shrines, the place of his birth and death to name a few. We can't just wipe them off the map, even if we demolish the building, the place remains.
I think we are only trying to comfort ourselves if we think that we are going to remove his memory from the minds of his followers.
I do agree that we are far better off not having a show trial though as it would certainly have taken years and become a "circus"
I think we are only trying to comfort ourselves if we think that we are going to remove his memory from the minds of his followers.
I do agree that we are far better off not having a show trial though as it would certainly have taken years and become a "circus"
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
Footnote of history .....
I have to agree that there are places that will probably end up as attractions .. however, some of the material that was recovered from the mansion, is showing Osama as just a tired old man. That is going to have a large impact on how the world (and his terrorists friends), are gonna view him and his life.
If nothing else, we now know that Osama Bin Laden lived in squalor (even though the mansion was a million dollar property), and you can assume that there was more than blood that was removed from his body prior to his burial at sea.
As a propoganda martyr, the picture of Osama Bin Laden screams anything but martyr. Osama Bin Laden's 'fame' will spit and sputter for a short time and then go out. He will end up as nothing but a footnote of history.
I have to agree that there are places that will probably end up as attractions .. however, some of the material that was recovered from the mansion, is showing Osama as just a tired old man. That is going to have a large impact on how the world (and his terrorists friends), are gonna view him and his life.
If nothing else, we now know that Osama Bin Laden lived in squalor (even though the mansion was a million dollar property), and you can assume that there was more than blood that was removed from his body prior to his burial at sea.
As a propoganda martyr, the picture of Osama Bin Laden screams anything but martyr. Osama Bin Laden's 'fame' will spit and sputter for a short time and then go out. He will end up as nothing but a footnote of history.
senojekips
Active member
I agree with you view to a degree, but I feel that those who will see him as a martyr will see him as living like a true soldier of in the Islamic tradition forsaking worldly comforts and seeking his solace in Allah . These are religious nutters they don't see the world nor anything in it as we do.
I feel that one of our major shortcoming in all these things is that we make no attempt to see it as they do. What to us, seems rather stupid, is truly heroic to their way of thinking.
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Amercian said: Bin Laden don't need trial,not need a lawyer,kill him directly.because he is terrorist.
:biggun:
84RFK
Active member
If we look at the "game" and the rules Osama bin Laden played by, the USA actually played well, while they could have crashed a plane into Osam bin Laden's house, they actually went in and took out their targets only.
That's consideable more fair play than the attack on the World Trade Center.
Thanks God he was not captured and tried otherwise this could have lead to what we are seeing in Ajmal Kasab case here in India.A terrorist caught in action in Mumbai 2008 attack is being given fair trial by the government,locked up in mumbai police station with Presidential security and with all the facilities given to a president,costing millions to state ex Exchequer.
Chief Bones
Forums Grumpy Old Man
It is a short time since Osama Bin Laden was killed, and his name has all but disappeared from almost all news stories. When his name is used, it is a footnote that could have been left out of the story and wouldn't have changed the main gist of the story at all.
The worry that he would end up as some "super" martyr hasn't surfaced ... matter of fact, the view that he was just a tired out old man and not even a simple martyr .. is closer to the truth (even within the Muslim community). Even his own followers haven't attempted to elevate him to martyrdom.
ARE WE FREE FROM THE DEVASTATION OF HIS FOLLOWERS??
THE ANSWER IS PROBABLY AN EMPHATIC NO - BUT - OSAMA BIN LADEN'S NAME WON'T BE ASSOCIATED WITH PLANNING OR FUNDING ANY LONGER.
I'll settle for that where he is concerned. Besides, his followers no longer have a "charismatic" leader (tongue-in-cheek), to follow.
The worry that he would end up as some "super" martyr hasn't surfaced ... matter of fact, the view that he was just a tired out old man and not even a simple martyr .. is closer to the truth (even within the Muslim community). Even his own followers haven't attempted to elevate him to martyrdom.
ARE WE FREE FROM THE DEVASTATION OF HIS FOLLOWERS??
THE ANSWER IS PROBABLY AN EMPHATIC NO - BUT - OSAMA BIN LADEN'S NAME WON'T BE ASSOCIATED WITH PLANNING OR FUNDING ANY LONGER.
I'll settle for that where he is concerned. Besides, his followers no longer have a "charismatic" leader (tongue-in-cheek), to follow.