R. N. ship & culture problems

I think it has more to do with the young people in the UK and maybe in the US don't want to join the armed forces. That can be solved with conscription and if the US and the UK decide to implement conscription, it would be equal if both men and women are forced to do it
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
That can be solved with conscription and if the US and the UK decide to implement conscription, it would be equal if both men and women are forced to do it
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Drafting both would be the right thing in the modern world. Sometime during TWOT (The War On Terror) Democrats here tried to bring back the Draft, but they were probably trying to recreate the nation-wide draft riots of the 60s vs supporting the troops.
 
George said:
Drafting both would be the right thing in the modern world. Sometime during TWOT (The War On Terror) Democrats here tried to bring back the Draft, but they were probably trying to recreate the nation-wide draft riots of the 60s vs supporting the troops.
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Drafting them into what though, most of them would struggle to handle the boy scout training programme.
I have some who are so vacant they can't organise their own work space because and I quote "they don't know how", none of them seem to be able to plan ahead or even foresee problems that are going to arise as a result of things they are doing at that stage.
These vacuous twonks need daycare more than the military needs them.

Their problem started at birth, it is one of education and social development and it is too late to fix them.
 
George said:
Drafting both would be the right thing in the modern world. Sometime during TWOT (The War On Terror) Democrats here tried to bring back the Draft, but they were probably trying to recreate the nation-wide draft riots of the 60s vs supporting the troops.
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Didn't the Congress nearly pass the bill about signing for the draft for both men and women quite recently?

The Israelis have it for both (unless the woman is a mother) It seems to be working quite well for them. The feminists want equality, but only when it suits them. I don't mind women in the military, but I disagree with lowering the requirements to get them in.

A draft can be good, but they cannot be deployed abroad. The discipline can straight them up pretty good
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
I think it has more to do with the young people in the UK and maybe in the US don't want to join the armed forces. That can be solved with conscription and if the US and the UK decide to implement conscription, it would be equal if both men and women are forced to do it
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I don’t want conscripts of either sex in my units !

If they don’t want to be there and are only there because they’re forced to be, they become a liability to themselves and those around them.
 
I guess they could be drafted into a civil defence type organisation where they can do basic military training but for the most part just respond to floods, storm damage etc, who knows maybe with a bit of discipline some may want to go on and join the military.
 
In Sweden all people between 16-65 years old have what we call the total defense duty. People will be forced to do their bit whatever that is if you know what hits the fan. To refuse will have legal consequences.

What is the solution to the shortage of personnel in the armed forces when the young people of today don't want to join? A mandatory military service isn't that bad, but they cannot be used abroad unless they have really good reason for it. The US has the GI Bill which provide service personnel with the opportunity to get an education after the time in the military.
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
In Sweden all people between 16-65 years old have what we call the total defense duty. People will be forced to do their bit whatever that is if you know what hits the fan. To refuse will have legal consequences.

What is the solution to the shortage of personnel in the armed forces when the young people of today don't want to join? A mandatory military service isn't that bad, but they cannot be used abroad unless they have really good reason for it. The US has the GI Bill which provide service personnel with the opportunity to get an education after the time in the military.
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Yes but northern Europeans have a different mindset to the rest of us, over the past 60ish years we tossed out the idea of collective good for an "it's all about me" approach, it is now ingrained into our culture and will take at least a generation to remove IF we were to start now and we show no signs of wanting to do that.
To fix it you first have to tear these halfwits away from their phones and monitors and push them into the great outdoors and install and enforce some social standards.
 
MontyB said:
Yes but northern Europeans have a different mindset to the rest of us, over the past 60ish years we tossed out the idea of collective good for an "it's all about me" approach, it is now ingrained into our culture and will take at least a generation to remove IF we were to start now and we show no signs of wanting to do that.
To fix it you first have to tear these halfwits away from their phones and monitors and push them into the great outdoors and install and enforce some social standards.
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You mean those who think men can get pregnant and cannot tell what a woman is?

The US and the UK cannot get enough of young people to join and I agree with Airborne, a professional force is better than reluctant conscripts. What is the best way to solve the shortage of personnel in the armed forces? Better educational benefits after the service? Better salaries?
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
You mean those who think men can get pregnant and cannot tell what a woman is?

The US and the UK cannot get enough of young people to join and I agree with Airborne, a professional force is better than reluctant conscripts. What is the best way to solve the shortage of personnel in the armed forces? Better educational benefits after the service? Better salaries?
e that do sign up
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No that is an entirely different issue again.
I think to some degree you have missed to problem altogether, there is no point in better educational benefits or salaries when they don't intend to work in the first place.
I have never encountered a group like them and the best description I can give you is that they are empty husks of people, no drive, no ambitions and no goals for the future, they are the closest thing to zombies I have ever encountered, someone tried telling me it was the "flower power" generation making a comeback but that generation at least managed to motivate themselves to be angry, the lot can't even manage that.

So what do we do, better benefits and salaries for those that do sign up and I think perhaps aiming at a younger group before they turn to mush would help but the overall fix for this has to be at societal level, the way we raise and educate our kids.
 
From a British Army perspective, I think the starting salary is reasonable. You don’t need any qualifications to join and your pay quickly increases in 5k increments once training is completed and if you work hard and progress through the ranks and/or specialise. But no one joins the military for the money or to become rich - I certainly didn’t !

Education wise, the British Army offers apprenticeships in IT, Engineering, logistics, construction etc with qualifications gained up to degree level. You can even obtain civilian qualifications such as Chartered Engineer status. All paid for by army. That gives opportunities when you leave and become a civilian.

The problem is the type of kids we have today. I don’t know what’s gone wrong but it’s what MontyB says, a lot of them have no drive or ambition. We weren’t like that 30/40/50 years ago !

I can only assume it’s the education system to blame ? These kids will have parents that are similar ages to us so surely they haven’t moulded their children to be like this ?

Maybe it’s what they see on social media that’s to blame ? Kids today want to be reality TV stars, influencers, rappers, protesters !

In the UK, we can’t recruit enough to replace those leaving and a large percentage of those we have are not medically fit to fight. 30% of all troops in the Army, or three in 10 soldiers, would not be fully fit to fight in a conflict now. We haven’t even met our recruitment targets for the last 10 years !
 
AirborneWings said:
From a British Army perspective, I think the starting salary is reasonable. You don’t need any qualifications to join and your pay quickly increases in 5k increments once training is completed and if you work hard and progress through the ranks and/or specialise. But no one joins the military for the money or to become rich - I certainly didn’t !

Education wise, the British Army offers apprenticeships in IT, Engineering, logistics, construction etc with qualifications gained up to degree level. You can even obtain civilian qualifications such as Chartered Engineer status. All paid for by army. That gives opportunities when you leave and become a civilian.

The problem is the type of kids we have today. I don’t know what’s gone wrong but it’s what MontyB says, a lot of them have no drive or ambition. We weren’t like that 30/40/50 years ago !

I can only assume it’s the education system to blame ? These kids will have parents that are similar ages to us so surely they haven’t moulded their children to be like this ?

Maybe it’s what they see on social media that’s to blame ? Kids today want to be reality TV stars, influencers, rappers, protesters !

In the UK, we can’t recruit enough to replace those leaving and a large percentage of those we have are not medically fit to fight. 30% of all troops in the Army, or three in 10 soldiers, would not be fully fit to fight in a conflict now. We haven’t even met our recruitment targets for the last 10 years !
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I think part of the problem is that they haven't been moulded at all, we all grew up with the hope of fame and fortune but by the end of high school reality set in and we chose and accepted more realistic goals for ourselves.
I certainly think schools are failing to properly prepare them for any future, I knew one guy who tried out for the Navy, had University Entrance level qualifications but when he sat the entrance tests it turned out he couldn't read, schools had provided him with a reader for exams so the Navy sent him packing.
To this day I can't understand how you can spend 13 years in school and not be able to read at the end of it, surely that is one of their primary tasks.
 
Monty, I know you are an engineer. Are the youngsters you are talking about engineers too? I haven't met young people like that, but I have a negative opinion about young academics. Their analytic skills is impaired.

Young people's ability to use the language is really bad so I am not surprised to learn what you said about reading. I know several cases of young people entering the universities without being able to read. How they pass through elementary and high schools without learning it is amazing.
 
In the US a lot of places have social promotions, people get advanced to the next grade even if they haven't learned anything. An article some years ago talked about rampant grade fraud in many States. Teachers leaving answers on blackboard, ect. A Principle in Louisiana sent letters to parents asking them to tell their kids to do poorly on the beginning of the year tests and work hard on end of the year test so they would show a big improvement & the school would get bonus money....
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
Monty, I know you are an engineer. Are the youngsters you are talking about engineers too? I haven't met young people like that, but I have a negative opinion about young academics. Their analytic skills is impaired.

Young people's ability to use the language is really bad so I am not surprised to learn what you said about reading. I know several cases of young people entering the universities without being able to read. How they pass through elementary and high schools without learning it is amazing.
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Some are very good while others don't know anything more than how to Google an answer, I would say that for every good one we get nine that I am not convinced tie their own shoe laces.

We have a lot of dealings with local universities and high schools and they all say the same thing, universities claim the first year is now teaching them basic things (how to write a report, using grammar for example) and high schools say they have enough trouble teaching kids things they should already know by the time they arrive at high school, it seems primary/elementary school is about 5 years of sleeping, playing and little else.

My biggest problem is the level of maturity, most of our graduates have a mental age of early teenagers and when they aren't behaving like children they sit outside vaping, screw Gen X, Y and Z this lot are the Peter Pan generation, they refuse to grow up.
 
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What annoys me most is newly grads entitlement and they think they know everything, but students and young people have almost always behaved like that.

The decline in using the language in a proper way is most likely because people don't read books anymore
 
I3BrigPvSk said:
What annoys me most is newly grads entitlement and they think they know everything, but students and young people have almost always behaved like that.

The decline in using the language in a proper way is most likely because people don't read books anymore
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Usually we resolve entitlement by giving them projects that require lateral thinking rather than book knowledge, good ones figure it out and bad ones fail which is usually humbling as a "professional".
 
MontyB said:
Usually we resolve entitlement by giving them projects that require lateral thinking rather than book knowledge, good ones figure it out and bad ones fail which is usually humbling as a "professional".
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That is a good idea. I will use it.
 
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