Questions about the raptor.

benaakatz

Active member
A number of other countries are developing 5th gen stealth fighters; China, the Sheyang J-XX, Russia, the PAK FA, India, the Medium Combat Aircraft, and to a lesser extent, since they're close allies, South Korea, the KFX.

Do you think any of these jets will be as good or as stealthy as the Raptor. When all these are complete, will the Raptor still be the definitive fighter jet in the world? Do you think 183 Raptors is enough, due to these fighters?
 
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When all these are complete, will the Raptor still be the definitive fighter jet in the world? Do you think 183 Raptors is enough, due to these fighters?
-snip-

On #1, yes; on #2, no.

(educated) layman´s guess, so take with a grain of salt...

Rattler
 
If we need more, we can make more. The design isn't going away. But for a peacetime Air Force...180 plus the JSF should be more than enough.
 
USAF is going for a hi-lo miz, with the the F-22 taking the place of the F-15 and the JSF taking place fo the F-16. Not that the JSF qualifie as "low cost" or "low tech", but its all in comparison.

Are the noumbers sufficient...Who knows. We havent even had Mig-29 in good hands against western aircraft, let alone any of the newer SUs...
 
I think the Raptor would be outmatched in Visual range by the Sukhoi PAk-FA. As we all know, the Russian designs tend to be superior when it comes to uhh, agility is the word I think.

So, probably their stealth will be so advanced that they only know the enemy is there when they see them out the cockpit window.
 
I think the Raptor would be outmatched in Visual range by the Sukhoi PAk-FA. As we all know, the Russian designs tend to be superior when it comes to uhh, agility is the word I think.

So, probably their stealth will be so advanced that they only know the enemy is there when they see them out the cockpit window.
I heard stories like this about the MiG-29 as compared to the F-15, and when we got it we found it was horribly out of date and shoddy. I'm not *too* worried.
 
I think the Raptor would be outmatched in Visual range by the Sukhoi PAk-FA. As we all know, the Russian designs tend to be superior when it comes to uhh, agility is the word I think.

So, probably their stealth will be so advanced that they only know the enemy is there when they see them out the cockpit window.

Could be right. They are so stealthy no one has even seen one. They are having trouble in assembly trying to find where the parts go.:wink:
 
As far as agility of the CURRENT fighters go, the Raptor is actually unmatched for its weight/size class. Add the stealth, supercruise, range, firepower, advanced EW/electonics and the world's best fighter radar on top of that, and you've got yourself a clear winner for a looonng time to come.
 

You have a good point with the article.

Secretary of defense has a legitimate argument as to the need for additional F-22s since no other Air Force in the world has a fighter that comes close to challenging it.

From the article:

"Designed during the early 1980s to ensure long-term American military dominance of the skies, the F-22 was conceived to win dogfights with advanced Soviet fighters that Russia is still trying to develop."

Seems the cost and time of maintaining the radar absorbing coating is the culprit.
The coating needs to wear out enough for the painters to find the plane in order to repair the coating. Is it worth having these painters sitting around straining their eyes until they can go to work?

What is the value of having a fighter that doesn't have any challenger?
 
When the PAK-FA enters service, we will see.

Oh what now? "oh my god, PAK-FA is Russian, its obviously going to be inferior to anything we have in the west! Heil Lockheed Martin! Death to Ballerina-dancers in Sukhoi!"
 
Well, we just don't know.
First of all, the US has been building Stealth aircraft that work since the 80's.
The Russians haven't fielded anything truly Stealth yet.
Experience counts.
 
Re: Questions about the raptor

At the beginning of the ATF program (around the late 1970s to 1980) which later became the YF-22 and YF-23 program, the USAF's Air Intelligence, DARPA and, CIA did studies as to assess what the USSR's technical capabilities would be in the time period of 1990 to 2010. The study was based upon the Cold War continuing and it turned out to be very accurate. The specs of the ATF were designed so the F-22 would be superior to anything the USSR could build in this time period. The financial breakdown of the USSR, the need for cash and, the Russians placing some of their best weapon systems on the open market allowed the USA's intelligence services know the accuracies and inaccuracies of that study. The fact that Russia has sold the USAF Su-27's (11/26/95) and MiG.-29's (from many different countries) only helps our intelligence community. The Russians have not developed any new aircraft since the country went bankrupt. Only modifications of the MiG.-29 or Su-27. So, the USA knows what the Russian are capable of making and will be able to make for many years. It would be the height of irresponsibility to allow such a database on an opponent to become out of date!
Many other countries know what the Russian Air Force has also. In 1988, the Japanese Diet (the Japanese Parliment or Congress) paid the USSR $300,000 (USD) for two JSDAF pilots o undergo training / familiarization / evaluation program for the Su-27 in the USSR! Japan wanted to know the capabilities of the Su-27 because it had been causing the Japan Air Defense problems.
Russian aircraft are no mystery to the American Military! Indian and Israeli avionics are more advance than Russian avionics. Avionics are the weak point for Russian aircraft. The Indian and Israeli avionics are not in the class with European or American avionics.

The Russian Air Force generals have said 'many, many' times the PAK-FA is NOT, the direct competitor to the F-22, it is more of a competitor of the F-35A. The true or direct competitor to the F-22 still has not been designed! While not a direct competitor to the F-22, it does close the gap between the F-22A or F-35A and current generation 4.5 fighters. The F-22 is being upgraded every few years so the F-22A that became operational in 2005 is well behind the F-22A that has been upgraded to the 3.1 standard. In another couple of years the last ninety-one F-22As will be upgraded to the 3.2 standard.
 
Well, we just don't know.
First of all, the US has been building Stealth aircraft that work since the 80's.
The Russians haven't fielded anything truly Stealth yet.
Experience counts.

Experience? American Stealth? No problem.

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Немој да сереш, пичka Американски
 
Every new design will have problems in the beginning.
Just that as the F-22 are so ground breaking the problems costs ALOT to fix.
Is the F22 perfect, ofcourse not.
Will it get better, ofcourse.

Nature of the beast when you develop a new plane from scratch rather then put another antenna on something and call it a "new design"..
 
Re: Questions about the raptor

Then why only one down?
The reason only one F-117A was shot down was because the USAF got arrogant, they flew the F-117 into the same target area three nights in a row! The Serbian AD noticed that targets in this area were being hit precisely at a few minutes after 10PM local time. Studying the the targets in the area and the placement of the radars they noticed there was one area where the gap being two fixed radar sites was greater than in other areas. So on the fourth day, the Serbian AD placed a mobile radar in the gap. A few minutes before 10PM the mobile site turned its radar. A few minutes later the F-117 flew almost directly over head, killing the F-117 was easy after detection.
The USAF saw their mistake and never flew the same routes in and out of target areas again. The F-117 was shot down on day four of a seventy-three day campaign. The fact that F-117's flew continuously during this period of time, shows the killing of the one F-117 was NOT the result of some technical breakthrough in detection of stealth.

'Zastava-Arms', thank you for the four photos of the F-117 wreckage. I have seen many other photos of the F-117's wreckage but these four are new to me. Again thanx. -Adrian
 
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