Pakistan Army ousts the Taleban?

Partisan

Partisan

Active member
So checking on the news services I found this article. It details the capture of a Taleban stronghold by the Pakistan Army, in the Swat valley.

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20090520/AS.Pakistan/

This offensive came about when the Taleban failed to stick to an agreement with the Pakistan government about sticking to the Swat valley and laying down their arms.

I think that this is a positive for Pakistan, they made an agreement, the terms were broken so the Army was sent in. But what are the long term implications?

As the article suggests, will the Taleban retrench into Pakistan, making it seem as if they've fled Afghanistan, if so how long will the political will in the US & NATO hold out to keep working in Afghanistan? Also how long can Pakistan keep this fight going in their country? To ask for ground support from NATO would be political suicide, so how will they keep up this offensive - if at all?

For me I reckon that the best approach is to workat it at like eating an elephant, one piece at a time - but this will mean a long and drawn out fight, reminiscent of Sri Lanka & Chechnya, so will the Pakistani population be up for this?
 
Hi,


pak_taleb_all_466map.gif


They have a long way to go
 
And why do the Paki goverment an agreement with the Taleban in the first place?
They are the very people they have comitted to help fighting..

If they can´t do the job themselves, why not let OEF forces come in and finish what they started on the other side of the border?
 
House to house fighting in Mingora right now.

Official sources claim no civilian casualties.
 
Bingo, read the two statements above, both made by Pakistani officials..
Do they seem to go together?

Anyone that have trained in/ performed MOUT knows what I am talking about..

Perhaps I´m cynical again..
//KJ.
 
They've obviously struck a deal, made it look like there's a war going on when there really isn't any serious, decisive fighting.
The Pakistanis can say "look, see? We're doing something! We're fighting the war on terror too!"
The Taliban will retreat putting up just enough "fight" to make it look "real."
Then after a while the Taliban will return to most of those areas and the Pakistanis will say "aww, look. Violence doesn't solve anything. Let's negotiate and send aid for the milit- REFUGEES! Yes, refugees."
 
The situation in Pakistan is worrisome, I've been following it too. It's hard to believe that the Taliban have been able to gain so much ground so quickly in that country.
 
Jilly to my mind it hasn't been quick. It has been a gradual seepage, always under the radar. I believe that it has been reported within Pakistan, but only recently come to head for the outside world to get interested - don't forget that Iraq has been the main thrust of news until 2008.
 
Partisan said:
Jilly to my mind it hasn't been quick. It has been a gradual seepage, always under the radar. I believe that it has been reported within Pakistan, but only recently come to head for the outside world to get interested - don't forget that Iraq has been the main thrust of news until 2008.
Click to expand...

No, the "outside world" have been watching this closely for a long time..
 
Bollocks to the report... Pakistan is putting on a dog n pony show. They have no chance in those regions in eradicating the Taliban without heavy outside assistance and support.
 
bulldogg said:
Bollocks to the report... Pakistan is putting on a dog n pony show. They have no chance in those regions in eradicating the Taliban without heavy outside assistance and support.
Click to expand...

Its unlikely I agree, but the main problem for Pakistan is that many in the Army are sympathetic to the taliban. Its very hard to win a war when the enemy is both in front of you and possibly standing right next to you as well.

Even more than foreign aid, Pakistan needs to vet itself, espicially in its intelligence services.
 
mmarsh said:
Its unlikely I agree, but the main problem for Pakistan is that many in the Army are sympathetic to the taliban. Its very hard to win a war when the enemy is both in front of you and possibly standing right next to you as well.

Even more than foreign aid, Pakistan needs to vet itself, espicially in its intelligence services.
Click to expand...
I especially agree with you on this.
 
I have seen & read news reports that the main reason why the Pk army has support from their people is because this is perceived as a home grown solution. I believe that a Pk Brig stated that if the public believed that this was US sponsored or planned then their support would evaporate. I will now try to backtrack to find these sources (the curse of news web surfing)

I'm thinking that we need to adapt our thinking a bit when it comes to the Middle East - when will we accept that tribal / family loyalty has more pull than national loyalty in this region? When we do, how are we going to approach this issue?
 
Either don't show up or recognize the tribal system and incorporate that in some way to the new building process.
 
What all Pak Army has done with talibans is more then Enough.
The Dirty game is infact played by US, why did they support those taliban militants against Soveit Union and now when US achieved the goal of soviet breakup and wanted to place US troops as occupants in Afghanistan instead of Red troops they are started calling those Talibans a "Terrorist". TO me the war on Terror is nothing more then a US led war to procure resources of third world.
Let me tell you the other aspect of the story, US inspite of knowing the Enemity b/w India and Pakistan called in Indian troops as part of ISAF in Afghanistan to help it in fighting liberation fighters( Talibans) there.
The indians took it in other way. The notorious Indian National Intelligence Agency RAW(Research and Analysis Wing) has started providing Equipment and Training to Pakistani Talibans through it's consulates on Pak Afghan border thus disturbing peace in Pakistan's west. this helped indians to reduce Pak Military pressure from Indian border (Bcz Pak Shifted it's bulk of troops to western border with Afghanistan). Infact the only terrorist and the real one in the region is Indian Intelligence Agency RAW. Pakistan has arrested several RAW agents confessing that India is providing both heavy and small arms to Talibans in Pakistan to fight Pak Armed Forces.
In Actual fact Pakistan Army is one of the leading Army in world, it won all wars with india and is a great Military power of Subcontenent. World should'nt forget that it was Pakistan which turned the Soviet Union into a wrekage in Afghanistan.
I still remember the "Pangsher vally" incident of 1987 when Pakistani SSG(Special Services Group) Commandos annhilated a Soviet Spetsnaz brigade in dea mountains of Afghanistan.
I'd say don't underestimate Pakistani strength against Talibans, their are two problems one the talibans are getting all their fighting stuff from foriegn powers which are playing in this region for dirty goals and 2ndly the minds of Pakistani people which can't accept that how Talibans when fighting against US oppenents Soviets were "Liberation Fighters" and now when fighting agaisnt US are called "Terrorists".
Regards
 
Yeah some of the wording regarding "freedom fighter" and "terrorist" obviously had a lot of twist in it. Between the two, I think terrorist has always been more appropriate, just back in the 80's they were useful terrorists.
You can claim that the War on Terror may be about resources, but just exactly what is there in Afghanistan that's so valuable? I don't see the US trying to cash in on the opium and that seems just about the only thing profitable over there.
Actually you've gotten a lot of the history mistaken. The US invasion of Afghanistan was over 10 years after the last Soviet troops pulled out of Afghanistan and there were never any plans to do anything with Afghanistan until 9/11 happened. Had Osama Bin Laden not launched attacks against the US while based in Afghanistan, odds are 90% of the US population would have never known it even existed.
 
One mans freedom fighter is another mans... etc. History has a clear bearing on the current situation, but it is the choices made now that define us. So if Pk wants to blame the US for the Taleban - OK, but which country served as a launch pad for those activities vs the Soviets? Which country has allowed its intelligence service to become the mainstay of the Taleban?

I am not disputing the reputation of the Pk army - in fact I admire anyone conductiong operations at 3000 ft above sea level. My big question is about the political will to prosecute the fight with the Taleban for control of Pk, which is derived from the public will. So Infantryman Ali, is the will there to fight or to have the Taleban rule Pk?
 
:coffee:1stly I did'nt get that how usama was declared all in all of 9/11 within 20min of twin tower distruction and 2ndly without any trial usama was declared a real criminal and became the most wanted.US has failed to provide any proper proof of osama involvemnt in 9/11. You are suggested to french writer's book "9/11 A Big Lie"
redneck you pointed out about the resources of Afghanistan, I'll tell you it is a rich state with huge deposits of natural gas which I think is gonna be a future replacement of petrol. In ma anylasis US won the war in Iraq and lost it in Afghanistan, Afghanistan is gonna prove the 2nd Vietnam for US. Most of rural or I'd say 70% of Afganistan's territory is now again under taliban control. what in hell are these US troops doin. In ma notice der are reports that in some areas US troop/supply conveys asess the local talib commander for their undisturbed movement through taliban control area.
I know US invasion was about ten years after the soviet withdrawl, but it was a political and military suicide for US if it would have sent it's forces in Afghanistan just after soviet withdrawl.
Also don't forget it were talibans who banned and effectively finished off the illegeal opium growth from Afghanistan during der rule and these are NATO/US and ISAF most advanced armies on the ground which failed to stop opium production.
and partisan you pointed out the launching pad, kindly turn to other side of the coin, what would have happened if Pak joined Communist block at the time of it's independence in 1947 as offered by soviets. If we had done so Soviet Union would have been an equal oppenet of USA in 21st century alongwith US confinement in Euorpe and America. It was Pakistan which allowed US U2 sorties throuh it's airbases in Peshawar over soviet territory and destroyed Soviet power in Afghanistan leading to it's breakup.
And your last question about taliban rule, answer is quite simple if even we stop fighting talibans they will neva rule us, remember talibans were present from a decade and we did no ops against them but they did'nt rule nor fight us how can they challenge us now.
But today Pakistani people are determined only to wipe out those militant groups in western Pak who are getting indian and Russki supplies, Unfortunately we are fighting a US war with which we don't have any concern. We could have remained peacefully with talibans confined to der areas as were they in decade of 90s.
Regards
 
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