New Zealand: Weapons raids, arrests (AP)

There is a similar precedent here in Australia, indicating that our present day Aboriginals are not the original inhabitants of Australia and are themselves migrants. In 1974 remains of a much more primitive man was found at Lake Mungo in NSW this species disappeared (32 -38000 years ago) shortly after the arrival of our present day aboriginals who are of Dravidian (Indian sub continent) descent.

I can hardly see this as justification of our present day treatment of our Aboriginals, but it does sink the argument that they are the "owners" of the land. They, like us are merely occupiers.

Our problem is that for a while it was thought that the Moriori were New Zealands original inhabitants and they were conquered by the Maori however this has since been dropped as false and it is pretty much accepted that the Maori were the first human inhabitants of mainland New Zealand.

In the end it could be argued that because of this they are just settlers like the European and have no more rights than any other settler but its a rather short sighted argument as it pretty much makes Ethiopia masters of the world as we are all meant to have evolved from that region of Africa (Maybe not Ethiopia but I am sure you get the African connection).
 
Monty, I know almost nothing of the New Zealand experience beyond such things as the Treaty of Waitangi, and I don't know a lot about that other than it's existence. Consequently I am keeping out of the main debate and just putting in the little that I know of similarities in Australia.

I do get your point about the Ethiopians, and the discoveries of Olduvai Gorge etc. This is perhaps why I try to push the old "Let's get over the past and get on with the future " line. To those with an agenda, I guess it's pretty lame, but I honestly see no other practical solution.
 
Moriori

@ Monty : I have been busy working, and dismissing a whole race is something I do except from you, and Honi Keke.



i fail to see the arguement.


the maori chased off the moriori so we can treat them however the hell we want?


also, just to stir the pot, the whole concept of "RACE" is bollox. try talking culture and you may get somewhere.



back to the origional topic (AGAIN)

ross muerant, right winger...leader of the bastardly red squad of the '81 springbok tour infamy has come out and said the police are in the wrong....

http://tv3.co.nz/VideoBrowseAll/Nat...leID/37440/Default.aspx?articleID=37440#video

and like the saying goes...when you have both "sides" saying it wrong, it probably is
 
I do get your point about the Ethiopians, and the discoveries of Olduvai Gorge etc. This is perhaps why I try to push the old "Let's get over the past and get on with the future " line. To those with an agenda, I guess it's pretty lame, but I honestly see no other practical solution.

It is the pretty much the only solution and there is no point in trying to right every perceived wrong however where it is possible to right I quantifiable wrong I see no reason not to, however until people stop seeing white and black as races and start seeing them as nothing more than colours we will go nowhere.
 
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Our problem is that for a while it was thought that the Moriori were New Zealands original inhabitants and they were conquered by the Maori however this has since been dropped as false and it is pretty much accepted that the Maori were the first human inhabitants of mainland New Zealand.

That was only dropped by the left and the commies of New Zealand to try and buy votes at that time.

They deleted records, like the Nazi's that tried to burn the books to change history.


And you Mr Red are also going on my block list.
 
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That was only dropped by the left and the commies of New Zealand to try and buy votes at that time.

They deleted records, like the Nazi's that tried to burn the books to change history.


And you Mr Red are also going on my block list.



seems the google eyed moonbats have claimed another for their conspiracy castle
 
That was only dropped by the left and the commies of New Zealand to try and buy votes at that time.

They deleted records, like the Nazi's that tried to burn the books to change history.


And you Mr Red are also going on my block list.


haha yes its was all a great conspiracy led by the evil yet charismatic Geoffery Palmer who by day passed himself off as the most boring man alive and mild mannered Attorney-General, yet by night emerged as Adolf Palmer to burn books, silence historians, anthropologists and paint Moko's on European shops.

So while the Germans marched through Europe to the sound of Preußens Gloria, New Zealands grand plan is to invade Australia to the patriotic sound of [SIZE=-1]Poi E, be very afraid.

[/SIZE]
 
The threat to your civil liberties - and your trousers

The actions of the police in recent days are hard to explain - until we realise that they're desperately upping the stakes, after losing the first round of 'Operation Eight'.

In New Zealand, pressure from the Bush administration in the weeks after 9/11 ensured the passage of a law which gave the police shiny new powers to search, arrest, and prosecute anyone who might even think about committing very vaguely defined 'terrorist acts'.

Over the past few years, and the past eighteen months, especially, the police and the spooks of the SIS appear to have used the 'War on Terror' as an excuse to pursue a vendetta against a few of their old enemies. Pesky Maoris, tree-hugging hippies, annoying peaceniks, and Bolshie trade unionists have all been placed under survellience, in an operation that has cost the police alone a cool eight million dollars - so far. (The SIS has repeatedly had its operating budget increased in recent years, and there's no doubt, after John Key's latest gaffe, that some of that dosh has been blown on 'Operation Eight'.)

The cops have made a mess of 'Operation Eight' over the past week and a half. With those eight million dollars at stake, they went all ninja in Tuhoe Country, smashed their way into activist pads in the big cities, and invited the media along to film the party. Carefully leaked articles in the Sunday papers talked of an 'IRA-style war' by a grand coalition of mokoed Maori, vegan peaceniks, and Save the Snails activists.

Within a few days, though, it was clear that eight million dollars hadn't bought a very good case. At best, the police had a handful of unlicensed guns and some recordings of Tame and a few mates sounding off about George Bush.

Quite frankly, I'd have been much more surprised if the cops managed to find a couple of licensed guns in the Ureweras. And if they want to find folks expressing a desire to see the untimely demise of America's beloved Commander in Chief, all the cops need to do is drop into one of dozens of internet discussion forums on a rainy day, or tune in to talkback radio whenever a right-wing host like Leighton Smith or Michael Laws isn't working the edit button.

Many of the allegations leaked by 'anonymous' sources to the papers made less sense than Graham Henry after that game at Cardiff Arms park. We were told that terrorist cells were 'poised to strike' in the main centres - but police raids and inquiries in Auckland, Wellington, and Christchurch failed to net anything more deadly than laptop computers.

We were told that Tame Iti had decided six months ago to abandon all his other projects and 'dedicate himself totally' to building Te Qaeda cells in the Ureweras - yet Tame made a well-publicised trip to Fiji only three months ago.

We were told that Labour's Cabinet was briefed about the seriousness of the terrorist threat before 'Operation Eight' began - yet the Maori Affairs Minister has bluntly declared that he doesn't think Tame is a terrorist, and Helen Clark is refusing to endorse police actions. Ross Meurant, the senior cop who regularly found red and brown terrorists under his bed in the '80s and 90s, has rubbished 'Operation Eight' and declared that the police are 'brainwashed' by racism. Coming from the man famous for having the reddest neck in Northland, that's quite a criticism.

We were told that Clark was the target of an assassination plot - yet no special security arrangements were made for her either before or after the arrests, and it is well-known in the activist community that one of the arrestees is a member of Helen's old Princes Street branch of the Labour Party. A few days before the 2005 election, I had a long conversation with another arrestee during which he urged me to use my vote to get a Labour-led government elected. Te Qaeda clearly works in mysterious ways.

In the months after the invasion of Iraq, Bush administration muppets repeatedly told critics to wait patiently for evidence of Saddam's weapons of mass destruction and links to Al-Qaeda to be made public. Give us time to complete investigtions, they kept saying. All the evidence will eventually be revealed, they told us. Of course, there was no evidence - if there had been, it would have been rushed onto Fox News faster than a Texan can draw a pistol. The requests for time were stalling tactics, designed to take pressure off Bush.

The same is true of the repeated cries of 'we need more time' that we now hear from the Kiwi police. The cops and the spooks have spent eighteen months and millions of dollars trying to nail a terrorist army in the Ureweras, and they've failed - not because they haven't had the time and resources, but because there was and is no terrorist army in the Ureweras. As Maori protest against the antics of police ninjas in Tuhoe Country and activists and high-profile lawyers get behind the arrestees in the big cities, the police are under mounting pressure.

Rather than admit they have blundered, though, the cops are playing double or nothing. By locking the media out of court, opposing bail for trivial firearms charges, leaking vague but lurid inventions to the more excitable papers, and attacking those who criticise them as apologists for terrorists and - bizarrely - P addiction, the cops are trying to buy time and put off the terrible day when they have to return to the real world and admit that Tame Iti is not some Tuhoe Osama.

The police are also lashing out, blindly and in vain, against more and more ordinary New Zalanders, in a desperate attempt to uncover evidence for what does not exist. Last week they followed up their raids on Tuhoe country and activist hangouts in the main centres with a series of house calls on such grave threats to national security as a banking analyst, a group of Maori musicians, an elderly, apolitical man who happened to have a Tuhoe son-in-law, and a middle-aged couple who raise chickens in Taupo. More windows have been broken, more laptops have been confiscated, and more knickers have been sniffed, but those ground to air missile launchers and napalm bombs have remained frustratingly elusive.

The police appear to be responding to these setbacks with a clever little manoeuvre. Since they can't find anything that fits the Oxford English Dictionary understanding of 'weapon', they've created their own definition, and put it to use. That, at least, is the way I interpret the raid the police made on veteran trade unionist and socialist Jimmy O'Dea today. Jimmy O'Dea is well-known for helping to organise trade union support for the epic and ultimately victorious Maori campaign to win back Bastion Point. O'Dea was instrumental in getting Auckland's workers to go on strike in protest at the decision of the Muldoon government to use the army to break up the occupation in 1978. Presumably that's enough to make him an honourary member of Te Qaeda.

O'Dea, who is now seventy years old and in poor health, found himself confronted by eight - that's right, he counted 'em, eight - carloads of police demanding to see his 'hunting knives and trousers'. It's not clear yet whether Jimmy got to keep his pants on, or whether the cops took the weapon away for safe keeping, along with the 'evidence' they pulled out of knickers' drawers last week.

I believe that public opinion is turning against the police, and that 'Operation Eight' will eventually be exposed as a very expensive exercise in conspiracy theory politics. The police have gone for double or nothing, and they will end up with nothing. When that happens, I'll have a good laugh at our local Keystone Cops.

I can't laugh yet, though, because sixteen arrestees are still sitting in prison cells. Like many of you, I suspect, I know some of these victims of 'Operation Eight'. I'll be taking part in the Global Day of Action against this coming Saturday. If you're in Auckland, the event gets under away at noon, in Aotea Square. If you can't make it on Saturday, then flick some cash toward the Civil Rights Defence Committee, which is doing a fine job of defending all of us against the police.

Taken from: http://readingthemaps.blogspot.com/2007/10/threat-to-your-civil-liberties-and-your.html
 
Four avoid Terrorism Act charges

Police have abandoned possible terrorism charges against four people rounded up in police raids two weeks ago.
The Crown has referred evidence against just 12 people to the solicitor-general's office for possible prosecution under the Terrorism Suppression Act. A proviso has been left open to charge the other four at a later date, but that is now unlikely. Of the 17 nabbed in the raids, sixteen still face charges under the Firearms Act, while another man faces cannabis charges.
Lawyers for the accused were alerted to the Crown's decision via e-mail yesterday. One accused was said to be overjoyed terrorism charges were not being sought.
The Dominion Post understands one of the four is former Wellington student Marama Mayrick, who was granted bail in Rotorua on Monday. The names of the other three are suppressed. They do not include Tame Iti.
Solicitor-General David Collins, QC, is expected to decide within two weeks whether charges against the others will be laid under the Terrorism Suppression Act.
 
terrorlg.jpg

The existing terror laws should be amended, Solicitor General David Collins QC said today.​

4:55PM Thursday November 08, 2007
By Edward Gay


Your Views

Were the police actions justified?

Solicitor General David Collins QC announced this afternoon that cases against 12 of the Urewera 16 did not warrant prosecution under the Terror Suppression Act, but could go ahead under the Arms Act.
But, while commending the police investigation, he described the terror legislation as "complex and incoherent", and said it should be reviewed by the Law Commission. He said it was almost impossible to apply to domestic terrorists.
Mr Collins told a media conference he had read hundreds of pages of communications and viewed photographs and video footage.
"Regrettably not all the evidence I have been able to see will be made public," Mr Collins said.
"The key reason I am not prepared to authorise prosecutions under the act is there is insufficient evidence to establish to the very high standard required that a group was preparing a terrorist act," Mr Collins said.
He said his decision was not a criticism of the police who had no doubt "put an end to disturbing activities".


But he said a lot of the evidence will be made public during the up-coming trials.
"Police were following proper practice under the Terrorism Suppression Act," Mr Collins said.
Tuhoe spokesman Tamati Kruger says it's a "triumph for truth", after the Solicitor General's decision not to prosecute the Urewera 12 under the Terrorism Suppression Act.
Police took 12 of the 16 cases to the Solicitor General last month who assessed the police's evidence.
Peter Williams QC is representing residents of Ruatoki who have complained about the way armed police searched their homes last month.
Mr Williams said the Solicitor General's decision was a wise one and he was personally pleased with it.
"In a small way they have contributed to the hysteria possibly being emitted by certain aspects of the prosecution but on the other hand it's not the issue the people of Ruatoki are looking at, they're looking at whether or not there was a form of terrorism by the police themselves," Mr Williams said.
 
It sounds a lot like a case of over enthusiasm to try out the new anti terrorism laws to me, probably in a lame attempt to justify the new anti terrorism legislation. If you can't find a legitimate target, Well,..... just lower your sights a bit. Unfortunately this has blown up in the faces of the authorities, someone needs to get their wrist slapped over this.

Personally, it seems pretty typical to me. At the risk of being thought a bleeding heart liberal, I would say that there is a concerted move to reduce the civil liberties of the public and increase the powers of the law enforcement agencies. Once in place these powers are never repealed.
 
On the whole indigenous people note, I think although Maoris and Aboriginies got hard done by European settlers big time but them using the whole "this is our land" stuff is just a political weapon. So then what do they want? That all white people return to Europe? Australia and New Zealand is now their native land too.
Their whole "please give us advantages for we are poor and in a bad position because of you white folks" just lowers them even further and in fact, mars the achievements of Aboriginies and Maoris who have risen the ranks through their own hard work and merit.
Like a guy I know well in law says, sometimes you have to be weary of minority lawyers because of affirmative action, lots of minorities who aren't good enough to carry the qualifications they have, have them because they were able to make it in through affirmative action. There are those who are simply brilliant, but because there are so many who got in the "politically correct" way, these people who worked hard suffer. And this guy is Chinese.
On this weapons raids and stuff... I think it's something that has gone very bad and the police, upon receiving a brand new toy got excited about it. They should have investigated this further... but I guess sometimes cops too watch too many cop shows.
 
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