New North Korean nuclear test
- Status
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
No idea.
The North Koreans are playing a dangerous game and what this one is for is anyone's guess. Their best friend in South Korea committed suicide and the missile test lost them a lot of support in the South as well.
We'll probably have to wait a few days for the picture to clear up.
The North Koreans are playing a dangerous game and what this one is for is anyone's guess. Their best friend in South Korea committed suicide and the missile test lost them a lot of support in the South as well.
We'll probably have to wait a few days for the picture to clear up.
UnitedSomalia
Banned
They have every right to produce nuclear weapons just like any country, if they feel their security is enhanced by nukes then by all means they should do what enhances their security.
If someone kept threatening by family, my household, and everything I care about I would get a gun in the house just in case someone decides to threaten our security and breaks in. The same logic applies, if they keep threatening North Korea's security then what do you expect them to do? lie down, surrender and take it, they would do what any nation would do and that is protect its citizens, its territory, and its national independence.
"There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris" (McGeorge Bundy)
If someone kept threatening by family, my household, and everything I care about I would get a gun in the house just in case someone decides to threaten our security and breaks in. The same logic applies, if they keep threatening North Korea's security then what do you expect them to do? lie down, surrender and take it, they would do what any nation would do and that is protect its citizens, its territory, and its national independence.
"There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris" (McGeorge Bundy)
u have to remember United that as long as the nation is DEMOCRATIC!! it can wield what ever power it can mustter
but a Fanatic country with an Ill leader who wil not be replaced in the foreseeable future cannot poses such power...it is to dangoures for the entire world...Nuclear weapon is not a game,not a mere rifle,its a magnifire glass in a hand of a lunatic with dozens of ants beneeth him.
with great power comes great responsibilty,such that only democratic nations can show
but a Fanatic country with an Ill leader who wil not be replaced in the foreseeable future cannot poses such power...it is to dangoures for the entire world...Nuclear weapon is not a game,not a mere rifle,its a magnifire glass in a hand of a lunatic with dozens of ants beneeth him.
with great power comes great responsibilty,such that only democratic nations can show
major liability
Active member
You don't have to be a democratic nation to show great responsibility. But North Korea sure as hell won't.
UnitedSomalia
Banned
A nation does not have to be democratic to be able to have the tools to protect its citizens, its territory and national independence. Every nation regardless if it is democratic, communist, secular dictatorship, religious democracy, or whatever other types of governments out their deserves to live in security and if it takes nuclear arms to guarantee that security so be it. See the problem is many of these nations would not feel the need to have nukes for security purposes if they were being threatened with invasions, regime changes, internal meddling by the West. You need to ask yourselves: If we stopped threatening these nations maybe they wouldn't have a need to have nukes.
"There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris" (McGeorge Bundy)
"There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris" (McGeorge Bundy)
major liability
Active member
I'm not sure what they hope to prove, if they ever actually used a nuke North Korea would cease to exist about 5 minutes later.
i never heard any talks about countries that are planning to attack N.Korea so it really dosent have to defend it self...and also defense comes with the hand holding the gun or by the trigger finger...Nukes only exist to make sure u dont need topull the trigger.
but if nobody says he wants to hurt u and u still developing those capabillities than damn something is fishy.
and ofcourse nations deserv protection but notice that the non-democratic nations has a sever problem...the civillians dont trust them and any demonstartion against them ends up as a horror movie,arrest and even deaths these countries only care for the men in charge and not for the poeple who is practically dying on the streets
but if nobody says he wants to hurt u and u still developing those capabillities than damn something is fishy.
and ofcourse nations deserv protection but notice that the non-democratic nations has a sever problem...the civillians dont trust them and any demonstartion against them ends up as a horror movie,arrest and even deaths these countries only care for the men in charge and not for the poeple who is practically dying on the streets
senojekips
Active member
In my mind, the great danger with failing States like North Korea owning nuclear weapons, is not so much that they might use them, but they may well sell, or give it to a terrorist group.
Then it would become a whole new ball game.
Just going on NKs past record, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility.
Then it would become a whole new ball game.
Just going on NKs past record, it is not beyond the bounds of possibility.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Well, if the North Koreans sell that stuff, the game plan changes completely. North Korea has to be taken out. So far, the nuke is playing the role of just the latest in a series of blackmail weapons aimed at South Korea.
I think if North Korea got so desperate that they had to sell nukes, they might as well invade the South since either way it'll be the end for them.
With the former President's death, the leftists are juicing the event like crazy accusing the current administration of "assasinating" him. Which is ridiculous but the left wing party comes from the student protestors of the 70's and 80's and therefore they depend on what they see as a dictatorship in order to have power. They see their opposition as a dictatorship (because of their roots) while in reality, they no longer are.
The North Koreans may have seized the opportunity to test the Nuke as a "warning" to the South Korean public about the current administration's "failed" policies against North Korea.
I've got some pictures from down town of some mourners. The crowd wasn't overwhelming since it was taken a little before business lunch hours.
I think if North Korea got so desperate that they had to sell nukes, they might as well invade the South since either way it'll be the end for them.
With the former President's death, the leftists are juicing the event like crazy accusing the current administration of "assasinating" him. Which is ridiculous but the left wing party comes from the student protestors of the 70's and 80's and therefore they depend on what they see as a dictatorship in order to have power. They see their opposition as a dictatorship (because of their roots) while in reality, they no longer are.
The North Koreans may have seized the opportunity to test the Nuke as a "warning" to the South Korean public about the current administration's "failed" policies against North Korea.
I've got some pictures from down town of some mourners. The crowd wasn't overwhelming since it was taken a little before business lunch hours.
UnitedSomalia
Banned
The West has long threatened North Korea's security this is not a new phenomenon. During the Clinton administration, Bush administration and other American administrations they were threatened with everything from surgical air strikes, carpet bombings, cruise missile strikes, all the way even to an all out invasion and regime change. So its not surprising they are acquiring nukes. When you keep threatening a country with invasions and regime change trust me they will try their hardest to get any weapon to at least make their enemy think long and hard about the consequences of invading that country and ultimately deter that enemy.
In this day an age no one can use nukes because it will lead to that nation within mins being wiped of the face of the earth and being turned into a glass parking lot. Nations acquire nukes not to just use them just like any other conventional bombs, they acquire them to use them if a stronger enemy ever invades so they have a Samson weapon where if they are going to be taken down they use it to make that enemy hurt hard and hurt very bad. Basically nukes are weapons reserved for when you have your back against the wall and you are going down and you wana take whoever attacked you down with you.
Stop threatening nations with invasions and regime changes and maybe they wouldn't have a reason to build nukes, the Iraq invasion was a grim reminder to smaller nations how easily they can be invaded by America and the West, so they get nukes as an equalizer. Iran does not have nukes and is not building nukes according to the IAEA and the many intelligence agencies, but if you keep threatening Iran the same way don't be surprised if they take a page out of North Korea's book. Because every nation wants safety, and if you don't want them having nukes its simple stop threatening them with invasions and regime change.
"There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris" (McGeorge Bundy)
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
UnitedSomalia, you truly do not understand what's been going on over here.
North Korea has not been the subject of invasion threats from anyone for a very long time. South Korea has not announced an official policy to destroy North Korea (although it does not recognize it officially). The US has not been particularly hostile to North Korea either. I can't remember the last time they threatend to carpet bomb North Korea. Not since the 60's anyway.
Surgical strikes have been put on the table because of the general mischief the North Koreans have taken part in but no actual firm plan of action has been put into place.
The North Koreans however, threaten South Korea on a very regular basis. There's this expression they love to use, about turning Seoul into a "sea of fire." They say it a few times every year.
That Nuke has very little to do with America or the West. It's simply another tool they are using to pressure South Koreans into fulfilling their demands. North Korea's ability to fire an ICBM to the continental United States is a VERY far way off.
"The West has long threatened North Korea's security this is not a new phenomenon."
- This statement is a 100% lie. North Korea's existence serves a purpose for all sides, be it China, South Korea or the USA for that matter. Although a neusance, the role it plays as a buffer zone between China and the "Western" powers of the USA, South Korea and Japan is important - especially for the Chinese.
This is why there is a huge threat making deficit favoring the North Koreans regarding the regional security issues.
North Korea has not been the subject of invasion threats from anyone for a very long time. South Korea has not announced an official policy to destroy North Korea (although it does not recognize it officially). The US has not been particularly hostile to North Korea either. I can't remember the last time they threatend to carpet bomb North Korea. Not since the 60's anyway.
Surgical strikes have been put on the table because of the general mischief the North Koreans have taken part in but no actual firm plan of action has been put into place.
The North Koreans however, threaten South Korea on a very regular basis. There's this expression they love to use, about turning Seoul into a "sea of fire." They say it a few times every year.
That Nuke has very little to do with America or the West. It's simply another tool they are using to pressure South Koreans into fulfilling their demands. North Korea's ability to fire an ICBM to the continental United States is a VERY far way off.
"The West has long threatened North Korea's security this is not a new phenomenon."
- This statement is a 100% lie. North Korea's existence serves a purpose for all sides, be it China, South Korea or the USA for that matter. Although a neusance, the role it plays as a buffer zone between China and the "Western" powers of the USA, South Korea and Japan is important - especially for the Chinese.
This is why there is a huge threat making deficit favoring the North Koreans regarding the regional security issues.
FO Seaman
Active member
The West has long threatened North Korea's security this is not a new phenomenon. During the Clinton administration, Bush administration and other American administrations they were threatened with everything from surgical air strikes, carpet bombings, cruise missile strikes, all the way even to an all out invasion and regime change. So its not surprising they are acquiring nukes. When you keep threatening a country with invasions and regime change trust me they will try their hardest to get any weapon to at least make their enemy think long and hard about the consequences of invading that country and ultimately deter that enemy.
In this day an age no one can use nukes because it will lead to that nation within mins being wiped of the face of the earth and being turned into a glass parking lot. Nations acquire nukes not to just use them just like any other conventional bombs, they acquire them to use them if a stronger enemy ever invades so they have a Samson weapon where if they are going to be taken down they use it to make that enemy hurt hard and hurt very bad. Basically nukes are weapons reserved for when you have your back against the wall and you are going down and you wana take whoever attacked you down with you.
Stop threatening nations with invasions and regime changes and maybe they wouldn't have a reason to build nukes, the Iraq invasion was a grim reminder to smaller nations how easily they can be invaded by America and the West, so they get nukes as an equalizer. Iran does not have nukes and is not building nukes according to the IAEA and the many intelligence agencies, but if you keep threatening Iran the same way don't be surprised if they take a page out of North Korea's book. Because every nation wants safety, and if you don't want them having nukes its simple stop threatening them with invasions and regime change.
"There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris" (McGeorge Bundy)
You do realize that the use of nuclear weapons results in contamination of the battlefield and that country and it's citizens. When you bring the option of nukes into the battle you are weighing a hefty choice, you do so with the possibility of endangering none-combatants, the enemy, and yourself. Nukes are not some weapon you can deploy and then "clean up" after, radioactive decay is here forever.
Nukes aren't some toy we build to bully sovereign nations, we've had the atomic ability since 1945 and utilized that ability once, and we have retained that ability. We knew at the time both our enemies where trying to obtain the same ability.
Today's nukes aren't some 10 KT bombs, they're 50 MT missiles, not to be brought onto the table without serious comtenplation of the consequences and out comes.
North Korea is not obtaining the atomic ability to protect itself from a possible aggressor, but to bully it's sister country in submission and to threaten the rest of the world. The US's last concern is North Korea, we're a bit more concerned with their buddies up north, China. If NK was so concern for it's populace, they wouldn't choice the Communist defacto of "nuclear power".
And please if you state that a military offical, government offical or the president of my country himself, has threatened NK please provide a news article, issued statement or any kind of hard proof, not speculation or accusation.
LeEnfield
Active member
It really does not matter what any one in the west thinks about this as the only people that can do some thing about it is China. If they withdraw their support from North Korea and allowed sanctions to operate then the place would stagger to it's end. With out Chinas intervention then nothing much will change
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
And like I said, North Korea serves an important purpose for the Chinese.
They have every right to produce nuclear weapons just like any country, if they feel their security is enhanced by nukes then by all means they should do what enhances their security.
If someone kept threatening by family, my household, and everything I care about I would get a gun in the house just in case someone decides to threaten our security and breaks in. The same logic applies, if they keep threatening North Korea's security then what do you expect them to do? lie down, surrender and take it, they would do what any nation would do and that is protect its citizens, its territory, and its national independence.
"There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris" (McGeorge Bundy)
Thats ridiculous. There is nothing wrong with n. korea, but, their leader is a, for lack for better words, a lunatic **** head. Why give such a nut job the power to blow up a good portion of the planet??
UnitedSomalia
Banned
"Pentagon sources confirm that the new plan will be the first joint U.S.-South Korean plan to take action against North Korea even if the North does not invade or attack the South first."- http://theseoultimes.com/ST/db/read.php?idx=4261
"South Korea have agreed to develop a new contingency plan to take military action against North Korea"- http://theseoultimes.com/ST/db/read.php?idx=4261
"Realistically, when I was elected, the hard-line people and even people in responsible positions in the U.S. administration were talking about the possibility of striking North Korea,"- http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/01/19/nkorea.us/index.html
"Senior Pentagon officials said today that two dozen long-range bombers would be sent to Guam, within easy striking range of North Korea, after President Bush said that if diplomacy failed, he might be forced to turn to military options to prevent the North from making nuclear weapons." - http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/000045.php
"Under the plan, America could seek economic sanctions through the UN, which could bring the impoverished Communist country to its knees, and the US military could intercept North Korean missile shipments to other countries. North Korea's neighbours could be pressed to cut economic ties."- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ith-ruinous-economic-stranglehold-612333.html
"There is mounting international concern about President George W Bush's grouping together of Iran, Iraq and North Korea as an "axis of evil".... But there have been angry responses from the countries themselves, while several allies of the US have expressed fears that it is preparing to open a new front in its war against terrorism. "- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1796034.stm
"Former US Secretary of State Madeleine Albright called Mr Bush's comments "a big mistake".- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/1796034.stm
"The poll shows that both genders support military intervention equally, and that two-thirds of Republicans and just over half of Democrats do. Only 15 percent oppose it."- http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2009/04/06/57_of_americans_support_military_intervention_in_dprk
Their are more links I will find of Bush and former president Clinton both threatening regime change and war against North Korea. I will post those links later.
"There is no safety in unlimited technological hubris" (McGeorge Bundy)
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
UnitedSomalia, there are countless plans that are on the shelf for a variety of scenarios some which are realistic and some which are not.
Thye do it sometimes just to get their noodles working.
Thye do it sometimes just to get their noodles working.
FO Seaman
Active member
I'm pretty sure I can find a article on the net with the US threating Canada with regime change and invasion.
Half of his articles involve more than just North Korea, and I don't see any of them with hardcore points of the US threating invasion of regime change. I see alot of speculation, big talk and hot air but no indefinite threats.
I make a threat towards Switzerland, I will steal all your chocolates and cookoo clocks!
The Other Guy
Spam King
Looks like the North Koreans are losing it. Even the Chinese and Russians are stepping back from North Korea this time. I think that they realize that without a clear next leader the South Koreans would feel obligated to break into any power struggle for the country, so they're resorting to threatening things the same way the State Committee did in the Soviet Union when it neared collapse. Now, I really don't want to see another war but this is one I could understand happening, and going better than Iraq if planned well.
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