Military Mistakes

[I3BrigPvSk]

I have been thinking about a quite fun thread in which we discuss military mistakes/failures. Not political mistakes, but military mistakes.

I am thinking about mistakes and failures quite similar to this one. When the RN was hunting down the battleship Bismarck, the Swordfish torpedo bombers accidentally attacked the Cruiser HMS Sheffield. Fortunately all the torpedoes missed

Do you know about other blunders like the one above?

 

[MontyB]

I have been thinking about a quite fun thread in which we discuss military mistakes/failures. Not political mistakes, but military mistakes.

I am thinking about mistakes and failures quite similar to this one. When the RN was hunting down the battleship Bismarck, the Swordfish torpedo bombers accidentally attacked the Cruiser HMS Sheffield. Fortunately all the torpedoes missed

Do you know about other blunders like the one above?

I have a German leaflet dropped over the Allied forces in Italy that basically says:
When the RAF flys over the front Germans take cover.
When the Luftwaffe flys over the front British take cover.
when the Americans fly over the front everyone takes cover.

It always amuses me.
Along those lines would the bombing of Monte Casino be considered a huge blunder as it turned an empty building into the strongest defensive point on the Gustav line?

 

[BritinBritain]

One of the biggest mistakes committed by British forces was the defence of Isandlwana.

There were numerous errors carried out, the firing lines were positioned too far out, tents were not struck giving cover to the Zulu, heavy weapons were situated wrongly among other massive errors. I am convinced that if a square was formed with 200 men on each side of the square, with a F Group situated in the center, able to plug and gaps, giving all round defence the Zulu could not have come in behind the troops.

 

[I3BrigPvSk]

I have a German leaflet dropped over the Allied forces in Italy that basically says:
When the RAF flys over the front Germans take cover.
When the Luftwaffe flys over the front British take cover.
when the Americans fly over the front everyone takes cover.

It always amuses me.
Along those lines would the bombing of Monte Casino be considered a huge blunder as it turned an empty building into the strongest defensive point on the Gustav line?

Hehe, It was funny. I have heard quite similar jokes about the artillery. I have heard something about a Lancaster accidentally dropping its cargo on a British city

 

[BritinBritain]

Hehe, It was funny. I have heard quite similar jokes about the artillery. I have heard something about a Lancaster accidentally dropping its cargo on a British city

I did a search on the Lancaster dropping on a British city, but could not find anything, unless it was a captured Lancaster flown by the Luftwaffe .:mrgreen:

 

[George]

I am thinking about mistakes and failures quite similar to this one. When the RN was hunting down the battleship Bismarck, the Swordfish torpedo bombers accidentally attacked the Cruiser HMS Sheffield. Fortunately all the torpedoes missed

At one point they thought they had the Bismarck on radar in the fog. They were about to open fire when the fog suddenly lifter revealing a US Coast Guard Cutter, tiny compared to the Battleship.

 

[I3BrigPvSk]

It must have been stressful for the US submariners during WWII when their early torpedoes had some quality issues.

 

[George]

It must have been stressful for the US submariners during WWII when their early torpedoes had some quality issues.

yes, apparently the Germans had problems also (fuses). Read about a U Boat that had 3 Battleships in sight and the torpedoes malfunctioned. R. N. Battleships didn't do well when torpedoed and later examination of records show that the 1st Sea Lord, Winston Churchill, was aboard. What a history changer that could have been.

 

[MontyB]

One of the biggest mistakes committed by British forces was the defence of Isandlwana.

There were numerous errors carried out, the firing lines were positioned too far out, tents were not struck giving cover to the Zulu, heavy weapons were situated wrongly among other massive errors. I am convinced that if a square was formed with 200 men on each side of the square, with a F Group situated in the center, able to plug and gaps, giving all round defence the Zulu could not have come in behind the troops.

Would the square have been necessary had the firing lines been positioned properly especially since they were equipped with the Martini Henry rifle who's firing rate really only required an adequate supply of ammunition.

Hehe, It was funny. I have heard quite similar jokes about the artillery. I have heard something about a Lancaster accidentally dropping its cargo on a British city

It is one of the items we donated to the army museum as they have the capacity to conserve it properly.

 

[BritinBritain]

Would the square have been necessary had the firing lines been positioned properly especially since they were equipped with the Martini Henry rifle who's firing rate really only required an adequate supply of ammunition.
.

One of the main problems was the black powder ammunition, which fouled the chamber, making it difficult to extract a fired cartridge. Troops were found tryiing the pry a case out of the chamber with a bayonet, whereas with a square the only weapon needed was the bayonet. It must also be remembered what heavy weapons that were issued were placed ineffectively, making them all but useless. Studies have found that there was plenty of ammunition was available to the firing line.

 

[MontyB]

One of the main problems was the black powder ammunition, which fouled the chamber, making it difficult to extract a fired cartridge. Troops were found tryiing the pry a case out of the chamber with a bayonet, whereas with a square the only weapon needed was the bayonet. It must also be remembered what heavy weapons that were issued were placed ineffectively, making them all but useless. Studies have found that there was plenty of ammunition was available to the firing line.

My point was more that with the firing line being closer in and the camp fortified it would have been much easier to maintain the rate of fire with both reserve troops and ammunition being easier to coordinate.

 

[BritinBritain]

My point was more that with the firing line being closer in and the camp fortified it would have been much easier to maintain the rate of fire with both reserve troops and ammunition being easier to coordinate.

The tactics of the Zulu made it almost impossible for a firing line to hold them at bay. They used the form of the buffalo, the chest attacked from the front, while the horns went left and right of the line, game over. If the chest took out two or three troops, Zulu's would flood through the gap then attack from the rear. However, with the problem of cartridge cases jamming the chamber, bringing the firing line in close would not have helped in my opinion

If you get the chance, visit Isandlwana and Rorkes Drift. Its well worth the trip.

 

[MontyB]

I have been thinking about a quite fun thread in which we discuss military mistakes/failures. Not political mistakes, but military mistakes.

I am thinking about mistakes and failures quite similar to this one. When the RN was hunting down the battleship Bismarck, the Swordfish torpedo bombers accidentally attacked the Cruiser HMS Sheffield. Fortunately all the torpedoes missed

Do you know about other blunders like the one above?

What about the IJN Musashi, it's construction was an elaborate secret until it was launched and sent a tidal surge through Nagasaki.

 

[I3BrigPvSk]

What about the IJN Musashi, it's construction was an elaborate secret until it was launched and sent a tidal surge through Nagasaki.

Oops

The Second World War saw the development of different weaponry. I saw a doc about the uboat war. The early sound/target seeking torpedoes didn't always worked as planned. It happened the torpedoes turned against the uboat instead

 

[MontyB]

The tactics of the Zulu made it almost impossible for a firing line to hold them at bay. They used the form of the buffalo, the chest attacked from the front, while the horns went left and right of the line, game over. If the chest took out two or three troops, Zulu's would flood through the gap then attack from the rear. However, with the problem of cartridge cases jamming the chamber, bringing the firing line in close would not have helped in my opinion

If you get the chance, visit Isandlwana and Rorkes Drift. Its well worth the trip.

I think this subject would make a good thread of its own, my main view is that a large part of the British problem stemmed from its failure to carry out standard military procedure for the time and underestimating the opposition.
I believe a properly "fortified" camp could have held off the Zulu attack as they had more than enough manpower and firepower to defend the position.

Oops

The Second World War saw the development of different weaponry. I saw a doc about the uboat war. The early sound/target seeking torpedoes didn't always worked as planned. It happened the torpedoes turned against the uboat instead

There were similar issues with the wire guided SdKfz 302/3 (Goliath) bomb, as it had issues traversing objects when used at night it could bounce off objects and return to its own lines before detonating.

 

[BritinBritain]

I think this subject would make a good thread of its own, my main view is that a large part of the British problem stemmed from its failure to carry out standard military procedure for the time and underestimating the opposition.
I believe a properly "fortified" camp could have held off the Zulu attack as they had more than enough manpower and firepower to defend the position.

Although I agree with your (my main view is that a large part of the British problem stemmed from its failure to carry out standard military procedure for the time and underestimating the opposition.) I don't believe that considering the tactic used by the Zulu and the size of the area to be defended a fortified position would be untenable. The square would have made it impossible for the Zulu to bring all their forces to bear at the same time.

 

[George]

Oops

The Second World War saw the development of different weaponry. I saw a doc about the uboat war. The early sound/target seeking torpedoes didn't always worked as planned. It happened the torpedoes turned against the uboat instead

US torpedoes had a habit of doing 180s. USS Tang sunk itself. The German acoustic fuses detonated prematurely.

 

[lljadw]

The Luftwaffe bombed Freiburg and Dublin, the USAAF bombed ,during 3 days, Malmedy which was occupied by US forces,a US general was killed in Normandy by friendly fire .
Stonewall Jackson was hit by friendly fire, 25 % of US combat deaths in the Gulf War were caused by friendly fire .
Allied soldiers in Iraq,Afghanistan, Vietnam,...were killed by friendly fire .
But I would not call failed torpedoes mistakes, but shortcomings .

 

[MontyB]

The Luftwaffe bombed Freiburg and Dublin, the USAAF bombed ,during 3 days, Malmedy which was occupied by US forces,a US general was killed in Normandy by friendly fire .
Stonewall Jackson was hit by friendly fire, 25 % of US combat deaths in the Gulf War were caused by friendly fire .
Allied soldiers in Iraq,Afghanistan, Vietnam,...were killed by friendly fire .
But I would not call failed torpedoes mistakes, but shortcomings .

I forgot about how annoyed the Swiss got when they got bombed four times instead of the Schweinfurt ball bearing plant

 

[George]

But I would not call failed torpedoes mistakes, but shortcomings .

The mistake was deciding they were too expensive to fire in peacetime, a costly mistake.