M-95/84AS compared to foreign tanks

[A Can of Man]

I'm actually not thinking WWII, I'm thinking tanks in relevence to the terrain. Desert Storm was hardly World War II and it featured tanks in wide open ranges.
Seen plenty of tanks and armored vehicles which run on treads transported on the back of trucks for cross country. I guess everyone's doing it wrong. Yes, train transport too, but that's usually an extention of the truck deal. The point was that a lot of the long distance transport of tanks are done under another vehicle's power.

 

[Panzercracker]

I'm actually not thinking WWII, I'm thinking tanks in relevence to the terrain. Desert Storm was hardly World War II and it featured tanks in wide open ranges.
Seen plenty of tanks and armored vehicles which run on treads transported on the back of trucks for cross country. I guess everyone's doing it wrong. Yes, train transport too, but that's usually an extention of the truck deal. The point was that a lot of the long distance transport of tanks are done under another vehicle's power.

So where did you see these plenty of tanks? I'm just tired of your bull mate i can understand a civy being green but having you shovel these claims one by one is getting tiresome.

Which country you're from that you see "plenty of tracked vehicles moving around"? I mean i'm in a mechanized unit and i havent seen "a lot" of them towed around, i didnt see Germans do it either (given that they have 40 trucks and nearly 900 tanks and IFVs that'd be hard too).

When we bought our 2A4s we got a full compliment of 6 trucks with 128 tanks and yet you claim you see trucks towing these all over, does not compute buddy.

Also you dont ferry tanks into the warzone but stop in the rear and from there on they move on their own so again your defence that a tank is being lorried most of the time is just bollocks.

 

[A Can of Man]

Alright if you say so.

Yeah, a delivery of 128 tanks just driving on the highway. That'll get a lot of support.
Also the tanks I've seen are already where they need to be. Also with the terrain like we have here, you're not going to get much out of a very high top speed.

 

[Panzercracker]

Alright if you say so.

Yeah, a delivery of 128 tanks just driving on the highway. That'll get a lot of support.
Also the tanks I've seen are already where they need to be. Also with the terrain like we have here, you're not going to get much out of a very high top speed.

Ever heard of trains? Also in theatre you're going to race down a road to get from point A to point B as fast as you can because if enemy is there before you its a huge issue so even if its Himalayas you'll want your columns to move as fast as they can and they'll move as fast as their slowest component.

 

[A Can of Man]

Yes, trucks and trains! When I said "trucks" I should have said moved under the power of another vehicle.
You should bring your tank to where we were and see how much of the gas you can actually floor.

 

[SHERMAN]

Which still is far from most upgraded 2nd gen tanks, basic M-60 has 150mm and addon armor is not going to cut it regardless how good is it, the Israeli statement that "in some areas it nearly equals Merkava IV" is pure marketing with no truth to it whatsoever.

I dont know. In firepower it is as good as the MK4, I should think....

If we're talking frontal turret i'm willing to believe that but glacis doesnt seem too altered si its still weak in the chassis.

Yes, of course. I am talking max figures. Cut it down to 300-450mm KE and 500-650 CE for front hull, and down to lesss than 100mm in some areas in the rear and flanks.

You're a tiny country, speed is not that important since a tank will get from point A to point B fast anyway due to a small area it has to cover, Turkey is huge and needs faster machines.

Sinai is not tiny. 50Km/h is fast enough.

There's several things i have to say about Arab militaries but i prefer not to be vulgar, to put it simply they suck, they suck so horribly they could give Italians a run for their money which means your doctrines are not that important.

I wouldent be so quick to dismiss the Egyptian and Syrian armies. The fact is that manuver in bettalion sized formations isent somthing done at max speed.

 

[Panzercracker]

Sinai is not tiny. 50Km/h is fast enough.

For Israel? Definitely, and Israel is tiny, how long does it take to get across it? 2 hours?3? Turkey on the other hand is much larger and facing much more serious opponents, Greece alone is worth more than all the Arab states piled together.

I wouldent be so quick to dismiss the Egyptian and Syrian armies. The fact is that manuver in bettalion sized formations isent somthing done at max speed.

I would, if their training regime did not change then they're pretty much Italians, take the six days war.

Now dont get me wrong IDF has lots of teeth to it but if Arab armies showed anything its that they are a joke on every level of personnel.

Maybe something has changed but i have my doubts.

 

[SHERMAN]

read up on 1973.

 

[Panzercracker]

read up on 1973.

Syrians took Golan Heights and you booted them in 14 days, plus there was Egypt which didnt do much, there's just no redeeming the Arab "military".

 

[darkgreensoldier666]

if you talking about a price it is much cheaper to move tanks on a trucks !
just think about how much GAS tanks eats per hour and compare it to truck ..
and these trucks are not so big usuall trucks .. and every country has thousend of it ..
Train => I talked about tiny country we are not moving tanks by trains .

AND according to Russian tank experts "VOENNOE DELO" (millitary business) the speed is not an important component of tanks mobility.
about turkey every country has it's intelegence so they should put theire tanks in the right place before enemy invasion ...

about arabs countrys do you think it was too easy to fight theme ?
Perhaps you are... we booted theme in 14 days because we had not choice a long war would kill us .. actually they lost at sinai because poor intelegence they fired a empty places ..and still Israel lost too many soldiers in that war (don't forget we are "tiny country").

 

[Panzercracker]

you talking about a price it is much cheaper to move tanks on a trucks !

So you mean that its cheaper to produce hundreds of heavy trucks that pose logistic issues due to bridges and roads not taking them, using up much fuel (not as much as tanks) and are voulnarable then just load up an entire brigade worth of tanks onto 5 trains and transport them with extremely low cost?

and these trucks are not so big usuall trucks .. and every country has thousend of it ..

Oh yes, every truck can town a 60 ton monster, in fact horses can do it!

Train => I talked about tiny country we are not moving tanks by trains .

Nope, you're teleporting them from your nazi moonbase.

AND according to Russian tank experts "VOENNOE DELO" (millitary business) the speed is not an important component of tanks mobility.

According to Russian tank experts a T-72 can blow off M1A2s turret from one mile, according to Russian tank experts russian conscripts can snipe midgets from six miles using handguns.

There's lots of things that "Russian experts" claim, my advice, ignore anything coming out of Russia unless its confirmed by a viable external source, these guys have such a long history of b******t i just stopped paying attention.

about turkey every country has it's intelegence so they should put theire tanks in the right place before enemy invasion ...

It doesnt work like that sorry, military inteligence is not a bunch of bloody seers who come up with exact enemy positions, thats why you need mobile units.

about arabs countrys do you think it was too easy to fight theme ?
Perhaps you are... we booted theme in 14 days because we had not choice a long war would kill us .. actually they lost at sinai because poor intelegence they fired a empty places ..and still Israel lost too many soldiers in that war (don't forget we are "tiny country").

Arabs lost at Sinai because of poor coordination, organisation, planning and military performance (as well as US backing Israel) if it was any European army with proper strategic and tactical planning and similar numbers Israel would probably be defeated faster than you can say "nuclear countermeasures".

 

[darkgreensoldier666]

"Nope, you're teleporting them from your nazi moonbase."
Sorry ??


"According to Russian tank experts a T-72 can blow off M1A2s turret from one mile"

and according to american experts hummer is a car that never stuck...+ I think T-72(in it last modifications) can blow up your Abrams.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZvLkLaVfNw
something irregular in this truck ???

 

[Panzercracker]

"Nope, you're teleporting them from your nazi moonbase."
Sorry ??

There's a limit of coping with bullshyt i'm not willing to pass, i'm not going to explain an Israeli citizen why does Israel use train transports, you can look it up.

"According to Russian tank experts a T-72 can blow off M1A2s turret from one mile"

and according to american experts hummer is a car that never stuck...+ I think T-72(in it last modifications) can blow up your Abrams.

You think wrong, no tank in the world can blow off Abrams' turret, the protection levels make such a feat impossible and its not like Russia uses best modern ammo and guns for its T-72s either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZvLkLaVfNw
something irregular in this truck ???

Yes, it weighs about three times as much as a commercial truck to provide traction for the wheels, the semi trailer has a reinforced construction too.

Its a rule to use trucks that are much heavier than regular to provide sufficient weight so that they may even move, its also MUCH more powerfull than any commercial truck, i dont know what type Israel is using but the same rules apply to all tank transporters.

 

[Zastava-Arms]

How did we get from M-84AS to Israeli Moonbase's?

 

[darkgreensoldier666]

It is a regular commercial truck ...

we cannot trasport tanks by trains because we have no railways to egypt to syria and to gaza strip ... a little bit interestig how your trains delivering tanks with no railways ... and offcourse abrams is invinceble tank...nothing can blow even his tracks ...
modern T-72 has as good firepower as t-80 ...
even t72b had 125mm cannon

 

[Panzercracker]

It is a regular commercial truck ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_Equipment_Transport_System

Its not, i'm sorry i'm not going to go looking for specifics on Israeli variants but its not a regular commercial truck, if it was it wouldnt be able to move.

we cannot trasport tanks by trains because we have no railways to egypt to syria and to gaza strip ... a little bit interestig how your trains delivering tanks with no railways ...

Yet you still need to move tanks about from bases within the country so they either go under their own power or via train to the nearest available station, we'd have to ask Sherman.

and offcourse abrams is invinceble tank...nothing can blow even his tracks ...
modern T-72 has as good firepower as t-80 ...
even t72b had 125mm cannon

No Abrams is not invincible but a low velocity 125mm gun with outdaded ammunition will not blow his turret off, it might destroy optics, damage the gun and external systems, it might wreck the engine, penetrate it sideways or destroy its tracks but its not going to scratch the turret.

Abrams in newer variants is massively armored, i've seen some guesstimates as to the turret and glacis and they're huge.

As for Russian T-72s they're mostly outfitted with older low velocity 2A46 guns while T-80U has a 2A46M-1 and M-2 upgraded for greater velocity plus superior optics and its still not going to dent Abrams', Merkava IV or Leo2A5+ turret, its going to have problems with glacis too.

 

[darkgreensoldier666]

Dunno about leo and abrams but merkava 4 has soft spots that even outdated t-72 will penetrate it .. as so I guess abrams and Leo..

almost forgot it is a regular truck))

Ok lets get back to M84as lol

 

[Panzercracker]

Dunno about leo and abrams but merkava 4 has soft spots that even outdated t-72 will penetrate it .. as so I guess abrams and Leo..

Yeah any tank will fall over when shot in the engine for example but a T-72 has no hope of penetrating Leo-2A5+ or its counterparts frontally, its arguable that modern tanks cannot penetrate each other frontally at all and Russian tanks are significantly inferior.

almost forgot it is a regular truck))

Bullcrap, its a mercedes actross 500 with modified suspension and hydraulic systems, its a modified model, it has a new engine, a new suspension and a reinforced hull, look it up, i could then you can too.

 

[darkgreensoldier666]

it is regullar MAN truck with 470 HP ...

 

[Panzercracker]

it is regullar MAN truck with 470 HP ...

http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2624272810052762935YJsWOj


A light tank transporter made of modified Mercedes Actoros 500 chassis, no it doesnt have a 470 hp engine, you've got the name you can google the specs, they're out there too, to be specific what you posted is a Merc Act 500 with a heavy KC-157 trailer, neither the truck nor the trailer are commercial, both are purpose built to carry heavy vehicles.

MAN produces 40.633 DFAETX 6 × 6 and FX 2000 series which are in service with Hellenic, German and Austrian armies, Israel doesnt have any MAN tractors.

You might have confused it with TGA 40.410 6x6 which is almost identical but this here is a Merc and a completely different truck (though still not commercially available in its tractor version).
http://www.militarytrucks.man-mn.com/en/Products/Medium_Mobility_Truck_System.jsp