Last Stand!
Papashah41
Active member
Off hand I can only think of King Leonidas of Sparta with his 300 and about 400 other Hopilites against the million of Xerxese and the Persian Army. Supposedly the classic example of what an intelligent commander can do with terrain which favours the defender and superior soldiers.
Sherman you get to ask the next question on the quiz.
Wow, that's a real nice warm invitation Sherman. I can just see all the guys piling in here to share their stories with you.:roll:
Who is the author of the book you read?
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03USMC
Active member
Howards Hill-13 June 1966 Chu Lai RVN.
A recon patrol from Company C, 1st Recon Bn, 1st Marine Division consisting of 15 Marines and 2 Navy Corpsmen commanded by Ssgt Jimmie Howard USMC inserted in the vicinity of Hill 488. The patrols mission was to observe and report enemy activity in the area.
For two days the patrol observed enemy movements and engaged targets of opportunity with supporting arms fire.
On 15 June 1966 Howards patrol was descended upon by an NVA Bn. during the night the patrol under Howard replused several human wave attacks. Using small arms, mortars and grenades. They were taunted by NVA yelling "Marines in one hour you die!" Howard instructed his people to laugh at the taunts.
Howard was constantly in contact with the Bn CP using the callsign Carnivel Time, Howard coordinated the rescue effort of his team.
In the final stages of the battle the fighting had depleted the ammo and Howard ordered his Marines to throw rocks. The NVA fearing any rock might be a grenade became more cautious of advancing.
At dawn 16 June 1966 a relief force was helo lifted on to hill 488. Of the defenders 5 were dead a 6th would die during evac. Between the 12 surviors there remained 8 rounds of ammo.
The Patrol was awarded 4 Navy Crosses, 13 Silver Stars, 18 Purple Hearts (Every member of the patrol had been wounded) and Howard was awarded the Medal of Honor.
A recon patrol from Company C, 1st Recon Bn, 1st Marine Division consisting of 15 Marines and 2 Navy Corpsmen commanded by Ssgt Jimmie Howard USMC inserted in the vicinity of Hill 488. The patrols mission was to observe and report enemy activity in the area.
For two days the patrol observed enemy movements and engaged targets of opportunity with supporting arms fire.
On 15 June 1966 Howards patrol was descended upon by an NVA Bn. during the night the patrol under Howard replused several human wave attacks. Using small arms, mortars and grenades. They were taunted by NVA yelling "Marines in one hour you die!" Howard instructed his people to laugh at the taunts.
Howard was constantly in contact with the Bn CP using the callsign Carnivel Time, Howard coordinated the rescue effort of his team.
In the final stages of the battle the fighting had depleted the ammo and Howard ordered his Marines to throw rocks. The NVA fearing any rock might be a grenade became more cautious of advancing.
At dawn 16 June 1966 a relief force was helo lifted on to hill 488. Of the defenders 5 were dead a 6th would die during evac. Between the 12 surviors there remained 8 rounds of ammo.
The Patrol was awarded 4 Navy Crosses, 13 Silver Stars, 18 Purple Hearts (Every member of the patrol had been wounded) and Howard was awarded the Medal of Honor.
Did you hear that? You just broke my heart
Just kidding I just hate starting threads and whatch them die. I read that book a year ago and gave it to a friend of mine, never saw it since... 03USMC, that is a serious story right there.
In 1948 a force of a few dozen Hagana(Israels pre-independence militiary force) was sent to reinforce Gush Etzion, a block of jewish settelments surrounded by the loacal arabs and and the Jordanian Arab Legion. During the march a few had to return their noumbers dwindeled to 25. They were meant to covertly infiltrate into the settelments, but were compremised by a boy goat herder on the way. They decided to let the boy go, ecause they couldent carry him along and they couldent bring themselves to kill him. The boy told the local arab militias and soon they were surrounded by houndreds of arabs. According to ARAB eyewitneses they fought until they ran out of ammo and granades, than fought with rocks and sticks untill all 25 were killed. their bodies were later found mutilated. Arab casualties were in the houndreds. To this day their act of not killing a civilian compremise is given as an example to what IDF soldiers should act like in combat situations.
03USMC
Active member
Heck of a story SHERMAN.
Lang Vei RVN-6 Feb, 1968
A US Special Forces Camp Lang Vei was located approx 7km from the Khe Sanh Marine Base in the NW corner of RVN near the borders of Laos and N. Vietnam. It was established in 1967 as part of the CIDG program and was home to ODA 101 5th Special Forces Group.
At 1800 hours 6 Feb Lang Vei came under artillery and mortar attack from the NVA elements in the area. The camp responded with counter fire from the camps mortars and supporting artillery from Khe Sanh Combat Base.
At approx. 0100 hours an attack by an estimated regiment of NVA supported by 12 PT-76 tanks attacked the perimeter of the camp. Using LAAW's and the camps 106mm and 57mm recoiless rifles the defenders managed to destroy 5 of the PT 76's. However the permiter was over run and the defenders were forced to fight in isolated pockets of resistance. Most of the surviving SF men took refuge in the camps operations bunker.
The NVA ranged throughout the camp destroying the fortfications with explosive charges and wiping out the pockets of resistance. They attacked the operations center all night but were never able to destroy or drive out the SF men or the CIDG forces that had taken refuge there.
As dawn broke the SF men called in repeated air strikes on the NVA surrounding Lang Vei and on the base itself. They also requested that Col. Lowndes the commander at Khe Sanh dispatch a relief force. Fearing that a relief force of Marines would not make it thru Lowndes disapproved the request.
At noon General Westmoreland dispatched a helo-lifted SF Mike Force from Khe Sanh Village to conducted the evacuation of Lang Vei.
Of the 24 SF men at Lang Vei 7 were killed of the 500 CIDG Montagnard troops at least 250 were killed.
Lang Vei RVN-6 Feb, 1968
A US Special Forces Camp Lang Vei was located approx 7km from the Khe Sanh Marine Base in the NW corner of RVN near the borders of Laos and N. Vietnam. It was established in 1967 as part of the CIDG program and was home to ODA 101 5th Special Forces Group.
At 1800 hours 6 Feb Lang Vei came under artillery and mortar attack from the NVA elements in the area. The camp responded with counter fire from the camps mortars and supporting artillery from Khe Sanh Combat Base.
At approx. 0100 hours an attack by an estimated regiment of NVA supported by 12 PT-76 tanks attacked the perimeter of the camp. Using LAAW's and the camps 106mm and 57mm recoiless rifles the defenders managed to destroy 5 of the PT 76's. However the permiter was over run and the defenders were forced to fight in isolated pockets of resistance. Most of the surviving SF men took refuge in the camps operations bunker.
The NVA ranged throughout the camp destroying the fortfications with explosive charges and wiping out the pockets of resistance. They attacked the operations center all night but were never able to destroy or drive out the SF men or the CIDG forces that had taken refuge there.
As dawn broke the SF men called in repeated air strikes on the NVA surrounding Lang Vei and on the base itself. They also requested that Col. Lowndes the commander at Khe Sanh dispatch a relief force. Fearing that a relief force of Marines would not make it thru Lowndes disapproved the request.
At noon General Westmoreland dispatched a helo-lifted SF Mike Force from Khe Sanh Village to conducted the evacuation of Lang Vei.
Of the 24 SF men at Lang Vei 7 were killed of the 500 CIDG Montagnard troops at least 250 were killed.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
About one RoKMC "platoon" of 13 men in Vietnam:
"[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Their most notable operations were "Operation Van Buren" and the Battle of Hoi An. During "Operation Van Buren," a ROKMC platoon of about 13 people wiped out an elite North Vietnamese Army regiment. There were only 2 Koreans dead and more than 400 NVA soldiers dead. It was first a gun battle but it broke down into hand to hand combat. The ROKMC had an overall kill ratio of 25:1."
Source: http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/South_Korea/Default2.html
I've heard about it before many times.
But the information seems too general from this source.
[/FONT]
"[FONT=Arial, Arial, Helvetica]Their most notable operations were "Operation Van Buren" and the Battle of Hoi An. During "Operation Van Buren," a ROKMC platoon of about 13 people wiped out an elite North Vietnamese Army regiment. There were only 2 Koreans dead and more than 400 NVA soldiers dead. It was first a gun battle but it broke down into hand to hand combat. The ROKMC had an overall kill ratio of 25:1."
Source: http://www.specialoperations.com/Foreign/South_Korea/Default2.html
I've heard about it before many times.
But the information seems too general from this source.
[/FONT]
Lets not forget the Navy. Even though on a bigger scale, the Battle of Samar (1944) in the Pacific was still a desparate last stand battle, where a small US force had to face a large Japanese force, which the US won. I won't try and summarize it myself. I couldn't do it justice. The links below are excellent.
The Last Stand of the Tin Can Soldiers is a great book about the battle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Stand_of_the_Tin_Can_Sailors
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_off_Samar
Was this the book Sherman? Last Stand. Please check out the link below.
Synopsis
Presents 13 examples of last stand battles, including the Battle of Rorke's Drift, the Alamo and Little Big Horn, as well as lesser-known "stands", such as that of Napoleon's old guard at Waterloo.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Last-Stand-...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222588073&sr=1-2
The Last Stand of the Tin Can Soldiers is a great book about the battle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Stand_of_the_Tin_Can_Sailors
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_off_Samar
Was this the book Sherman? Last Stand. Please check out the link below.
Synopsis
Presents 13 examples of last stand battles, including the Battle of Rorke's Drift, the Alamo and Little Big Horn, as well as lesser-known "stands", such as that of Napoleon's old guard at Waterloo.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Last-Stand-...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1222588073&sr=1-2
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yep thats the book. israeli version had a couple of battles added by the translator, from the israeli arab wars.
Anyways-
Between 7th and 10th of October 1973 the Israeli 7th armored brigade fought against several attacks by Syrian armored divisions, at odds of up to 6-1 in tanks. Most of 7th brigade tanks were destroyed, its units broke and were only saved by the commander of 77 bettalion, Avigdor Kahalni, who repidedly rallied the troops and kept the tanks in positions that controlled a huge killing zone. about 600 Syrian tanks and AFVs were destroyed, in what became known as the Syrian Valley of Tears. read the book Heights of Courage by Kahalani for more, there is no way to describe it otherwise
Anyways-
Between 7th and 10th of October 1973 the Israeli 7th armored brigade fought against several attacks by Syrian armored divisions, at odds of up to 6-1 in tanks. Most of 7th brigade tanks were destroyed, its units broke and were only saved by the commander of 77 bettalion, Avigdor Kahalni, who repidedly rallied the troops and kept the tanks in positions that controlled a huge killing zone. about 600 Syrian tanks and AFVs were destroyed, in what became known as the Syrian Valley of Tears. read the book Heights of Courage by Kahalani for more, there is no way to describe it otherwise
03USMC
Active member
Nam Dong CIDG Camp 6 July, 1964.
At approx. 0226 6 July, 1964 the Nam Dong CIDG camp was attacked by a reinforced bn of Viet Cong. The attack started with a heavy mortar barrage followed by a ground assault. The defenders consisted of US Special Forces Advisors, Australian Army Advisors, South Vietnamese troops and Nung Mercenaries. For at a total of approx.370 defenders.
For five hours the defenders countered assault after assault with small arms, mortars, recoiless rifles and crew served weapons. Out numbered 3 to 1 the defenders held out. At 0945 the camp was evacuted by 6 USMC helo's.
The causalties were 55 South Vietnamese/Nungs KIA , 65 South Vietnamese/Nungs WIA. 2 SF men killed and 1 Australian KIA.
The Camp Commander Capt. Roger Donlon would the 1st Solider awarded the MOH in RVN.
Warrant Officer Kevin Conway Australian Army was the 1st Aussie to be KIA in RVN. He was recommended for the Victoria Cross for manning a mortar emplacement by himself until he was killed. The decoration was never awarded.
At approx. 0226 6 July, 1964 the Nam Dong CIDG camp was attacked by a reinforced bn of Viet Cong. The attack started with a heavy mortar barrage followed by a ground assault. The defenders consisted of US Special Forces Advisors, Australian Army Advisors, South Vietnamese troops and Nung Mercenaries. For at a total of approx.370 defenders.
For five hours the defenders countered assault after assault with small arms, mortars, recoiless rifles and crew served weapons. Out numbered 3 to 1 the defenders held out. At 0945 the camp was evacuted by 6 USMC helo's.
The causalties were 55 South Vietnamese/Nungs KIA , 65 South Vietnamese/Nungs WIA. 2 SF men killed and 1 Australian KIA.
The Camp Commander Capt. Roger Donlon would the 1st Solider awarded the MOH in RVN.
Warrant Officer Kevin Conway Australian Army was the 1st Aussie to be KIA in RVN. He was recommended for the Victoria Cross for manning a mortar emplacement by himself until he was killed. The decoration was never awarded.
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Good post 03USMC. There were cases of strange inconsistencies in the award of the VC in Vietnam. I am not expert enough to discuss this. Military people may like to look at this one.
Just a minor point, the proper spelling is "Australian".
03USMC
Active member
My bad. Fixed it
As far as Warrant Officer Conway's not being awarded the Victoria Cross, he was recommended by Colonel Francis P. (Ted) Serong then Commanding AATTV. Col. Serong has stated that it was U.S. Army Special Forces "Politics" that had the award squashed. I don't know maybe an Aussie can find some info on it. Whatever the Case the US Special Forces trooper MSGT G. Alamo who was in the mortar pit was awarded a posthumous Distinguished Service Cross, so could be.
Battle of Kapyong, Korean War, 1951.
Two Battalions, the Third Battalion of the Royal Australian Regiment, and the Second Battalion of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry. A Chinese offensive had pushed the forward units into retreat, moving through the two battalions, who were formed into the 27th Commonwealth Brigade.
The Chinese attacked with over a division, outnumbering the defenders 5 to 1, fighting lasting for 4 days with both battalions being surrounded and fighting going hand-to-hand and bayonet charges.
Two Battalions, the Third Battalion of the Royal Australian Regiment, and the Second Battalion of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry. A Chinese offensive had pushed the forward units into retreat, moving through the two battalions, who were formed into the 27th Commonwealth Brigade.
The Chinese attacked with over a division, outnumbering the defenders 5 to 1, fighting lasting for 4 days with both battalions being surrounded and fighting going hand-to-hand and bayonet charges.
Who knows 03, probably ******** pollies and rank.
PTE Dick Norden received a Distinguished Conduct Medal in Vietnam for his actions in the Battle of Coral. The lead scout and section commander were shot 20 metres ahead, he rushed out, killed an enemy and dragged his section commander back. He then ran back out and killed the VC soldier who was using the scouts body as a shield, returning to his section he then went forward a third time throwing grenades clearing the area for the scouts body to be recovered. His section commander survived because of his actions.
Sir Roden Cutler VC, who received the Victoria Cross in WW2, decorated Dick and when doing so said to him "I do not know what one has to do these days to win a Victoria Cross".
PTE Dick Norden received a Distinguished Conduct Medal in Vietnam for his actions in the Battle of Coral. The lead scout and section commander were shot 20 metres ahead, he rushed out, killed an enemy and dragged his section commander back. He then ran back out and killed the VC soldier who was using the scouts body as a shield, returning to his section he then went forward a third time throwing grenades clearing the area for the scouts body to be recovered. His section commander survived because of his actions.
Sir Roden Cutler VC, who received the Victoria Cross in WW2, decorated Dick and when doing so said to him "I do not know what one has to do these days to win a Victoria Cross".
I read a story in the book Infantry Aces about a German 88 gunner who was the only surviving member of his gun crew who single handily took out a dozen Soviet thanks. He was wounded but managed to load, aim, fire, of course the Soviets were shooting back.
This guy got the Iron Cross and then some.
This guy got the Iron Cross and then some.
The last stand of the 31st RCT East of Chosin in the Korean War may well have enabled the First Marine Division to attack in a different direction.
This was actually two battalions if the 31st Infantry, one battalion of the 32nd Infantry and supporting units, including anti aircraft artillery ubits capable of putting out a lot of firepower. When the Communist Chinese attacked First Marine Division, two Chinese Infantry Divisions, one reinforced by a regiment of a third Division, attacked the 31st RCT. Odds were 20,000 Chinese against 2,500 US Soldiers. 31st RCT was wiped out, fewer than 400 surviving. However, they did take out the Chinese divisions.
O.P. Smith, CG of the First Marine Division, made a desultory attempt to relive 31st RCT, then abandoned them. After the Chosin breakout, O. P. Smith accused the soldiers of the 31st RCT of wholesale cowardice. People, including a number of USMC officers, believed 31st RCT had been unfairly treated and worked to tell their story. Review of Chinese Military documents finally revealed what the 31st RCT had done, and the unit as awarded a Navy Presidential Citation, approximately 50 years after the event.
Some Marines have questioned the significance of 31st RCT's stand East of Chosin. Had 31st RCT not stood and fought, had the soldiers simply thrown away their arms and fled as O. P. Smith alleged, two, possibly three Chinese Infantry Divisions would have come down the East side of the Chosin Reservoir unfought and descended on Hagaru-Ri behind the First Marine Division before it could concentrate for their breakout. That would not have been good for First Marine Division.
This was actually two battalions if the 31st Infantry, one battalion of the 32nd Infantry and supporting units, including anti aircraft artillery ubits capable of putting out a lot of firepower. When the Communist Chinese attacked First Marine Division, two Chinese Infantry Divisions, one reinforced by a regiment of a third Division, attacked the 31st RCT. Odds were 20,000 Chinese against 2,500 US Soldiers. 31st RCT was wiped out, fewer than 400 surviving. However, they did take out the Chinese divisions.
O.P. Smith, CG of the First Marine Division, made a desultory attempt to relive 31st RCT, then abandoned them. After the Chosin breakout, O. P. Smith accused the soldiers of the 31st RCT of wholesale cowardice. People, including a number of USMC officers, believed 31st RCT had been unfairly treated and worked to tell their story. Review of Chinese Military documents finally revealed what the 31st RCT had done, and the unit as awarded a Navy Presidential Citation, approximately 50 years after the event.
Some Marines have questioned the significance of 31st RCT's stand East of Chosin. Had 31st RCT not stood and fought, had the soldiers simply thrown away their arms and fled as O. P. Smith alleged, two, possibly three Chinese Infantry Divisions would have come down the East side of the Chosin Reservoir unfought and descended on Hagaru-Ri behind the First Marine Division before it could concentrate for their breakout. That would not have been good for First Marine Division.
Gary of CA
Active member
Dan Mills's book, Sniper One, doesn't have much on sniping but the contents has all the stuff of an epic movie on the scale of Blackhawk Down or Zulu!
Team Infidel
Forum Spin Doctor
only a few more to go.....
Korean Seaboy
Active member
Here's some amazing history (All South Korean)
Battle of Hwang-San-Bol
It was the last and desperate stand of a Korean nation-state named Baekjae which was one of the three nation-states during the Sam-Guk era. The Baekjae general was a hero named Gye-baek. He was heavily outmanned and outnumbered by the Silla (the second nation-state) army. Almost all of the soldiers were killed and general Gye-baek himself killed his own family before the battle so that they won't become slaves. The Baekjae army lost and this resulted in the annexation of Baekjae by Silla.
The Battle of Myeongyang
Admiral Yi-Sun-Sin was outnumbered by 13:333 ships. The enemy was the Japanese invasion fleet. Admiral Yi-Sun-Sin through superior ship design, superior maneuvering, and use of water currents, he won the battle although being heavily outnumbered.
Battle of Hwang-San-Bol
It was the last and desperate stand of a Korean nation-state named Baekjae which was one of the three nation-states during the Sam-Guk era. The Baekjae general was a hero named Gye-baek. He was heavily outmanned and outnumbered by the Silla (the second nation-state) army. Almost all of the soldiers were killed and general Gye-baek himself killed his own family before the battle so that they won't become slaves. The Baekjae army lost and this resulted in the annexation of Baekjae by Silla.
The Battle of Myeongyang
Admiral Yi-Sun-Sin was outnumbered by 13:333 ships. The enemy was the Japanese invasion fleet. Admiral Yi-Sun-Sin through superior ship design, superior maneuvering, and use of water currents, he won the battle although being heavily outnumbered.