JF-17 Vs LCA Tejas

What about China's new J 20 Stealth Project that made the front page of the Journal?

I know it's early but China estimates if engine deals with Russia go through that the stealth fighter, and yes, a "true" stealth fighter like the F/A 22 by early 2016-2018.

The plane has already been seen making high speed taxis , a step that proves that the project is pretty far along in the development stage. And most likely like mentioned by the few press releases in foreign newspapers that only reason that the new stealth replacement isn't in the air is because of engine issues.

What gets me however is that China's Press agencies did not make an effort to curtail all news of the plane getting out.

I'll look for some pictures

Indian LCA is not claiming it is the best multi role aircraft in the world in all respect but its air frame is of composite material which makes the aircraft light & fly long distance, fast with little fuel which makes it similar to F15 Eagle, Eurojet fighters, Su 27MKII & Su-30MKI . The engine F404-IN20 of LCA Tejas jetfighter is manufacturered by General Electric, currenrly used by European figter jets. Tejas employs C-FC materials for up to 45% of its airframe by weight, including in the fuselage (doors and skins), wings (skin, spars and ribs), elevons, tailfin, rudder, air brakes and landing gear doors. Composites are used to make an aircraft both lighter and stronger at the same time compared to an all-metal design,

Togther with SUKHOI PAKFA the 5th generation Russian stealth fighter Pakistani Air force PAF and PLAAF have no chance to wage or dream a war with Indian Airforce IAF at near future against the truth as of 2010 -2020.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBb1dknWIzQ"]YouTube - China's fake next generation awacs(kj2000) crash[/ame]



Chinese Stealths will take decades to complete & inferior to US & Russian technology and there can be chances Chinese Stealths are just decoy or a dummy.
Some un educated/ semi educated boys blow some propaganda thru inter-net are not true !!

Pakistan renamed Super-7 as JF-17 Thunder in 2003 which became a real blunder in 2010 when fitted with WS Chinese high mortality Engine. JF-17 at present MEANS JOINT FUN MAKING AIRCRAFT ( JF with 17 great Blunders) of Chinese origin. The aircraft JF-17 uses a poor copy of Airframe of Mig 21 which is Iron oxide heavy metal and technolgy of Wright Brother's time. Some Pakistani women are so scared that their government were not able to procure even a second quality Russian Engine. Now they have no option but to go for a third quality Engine Chinese WS-13, which will place the life of their pilot husband of PAF in a balance. However some un-happy wives of pilots of Pakistani Air Force (PAF) are happy, if they know their husbands are flying JF17 in action or on regular flights !! Pakistan is going to test the performances of their JF17 fighter jet on poor African, Asian & Latin American countries. The Thunder is going to be a futuristic widow-maker Aircraft. The overall result of joint Chinese Pakistani joint venture yielded a slow moving cheap aircraft which can be easy target :sniper:for Indian LCA's, Mig 21 Bison, French Mirage 2000s, Su 27MKII, Mig 31 & Su PAKFA the 4.5/5th generation jet fighters of IAF. In the year 2010 while I was strolling along China - India border I got a aircraft engine part of Chinese origin. When brought for examination on the same day it was found to be a part JF-17 Fighter-jet which fell down :mrgreen:while a Chinese JF 17 aircraft roamed that area. Next day I heard in news some Chinese air-craft similar to JF 17 was destroyed on the runway and killing the pilot. China can afford loss of a skilled Pilot because so many people out there but Pakistan cannot afford to loose a pilot’s life !! Pakistani scientists are developing latest Aircraft using Adobe photoshop & PAF Occasionally modifies American F16s with Adobe-photoshop & 3D MAX Computer games software to carry their nuclear bombs.:bravo: At Kamra Aeronauitics Co - Pakistan all they have is a laptop with dozens of big cans with Green paint to paint RED-colored Chinese Aircrafts & missiles.

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hey tba paki. how about lca and su 30mki firing brahmos?? 8 miles per second speed. wat will your so called f1-16s and jf.. watever gonna do?
:biggun::biggun::biggun::biggun::biggun:hey rock. dude dont be so rude to the day dreamer tba paki. he is just a thumb sucking kid.

dont be jelous from jf-17 thunder its a capable of BVR missiles and LCA stands for LATEST CRAP AIRCRAFT so thers a huge difference between them muahahha and su30 mki and FGFA? mauhahaha according to russian defence minister their inventory is sub standard muahahhahahha so dont even think to fight against pakistan because u will looose ur air crafts on ur own like flying coffins muahahha and prepare for upgraded F-16s
Togther with SUKHOI PAKFA the 5th generation Russian stealth fighter Pakistani Air force PAF and PLAAF have no chance to wage or dream a war with Indian Airforce IAF at near future against the truth as of 2010 -2020.
YouTube - China's fake next generation awacs(kj2000) crash


This news report really said nothing about the aircraft being fake. Rather, that out of the 40 killed in the crash, 35 were among China's top scientists who were on board during the flight.
LCA Vs JF 17 thread


Arslanpower is silent about Engine quality of JF17 Blunder Aircraft with (Work Shut) WS-13 Chinese Engines. Either he is a thumb licking kid to say any comments about Aircrafts or an un educated boy spending times in Internet cafes. He can go to Afghanistan for higher education. Paki ministers are frequently visiting N.Korea & China for shopping missiles & Aircrafts. Next job is very easy to paint it Green at Kamra Aeronautical Co. (which was a old Chicken-pig Farm). Usually Chinese Aircrafts & missiles come with RED color. Still PAF Scientists are modify F-16 Aircrafts to carry their nuclear bombs which American Scientists don't know or have equla technology. The above video shows the welcome party for Shenyang Aircrafts, other old tech Aircrafts of 1940 inferior Chinese technology planes of PAF inside Indian Border. Poor kid:cry: muahahhaha !!!
Kaveri Engine Test by Gromov Institute Russia was a success

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P6BSnTkly8"]YouTube - Chief of Russia's flight test agency: India's indigenous Turbofan Engine, Kaveri[/ame]

Kaveri Engine Test by Gromov Flight Research Institute (GFRI), Moscow - Russia was a success !!

The engine was tested from take-off to landing and flew for a period of over one hour up to at an altitude of 6000m at a speed of 0.6 mach in its maiden flight. The engine control, engine performance and engine health during the flight were found to be excellent. With this test, Kaveri Engine has completed a major milestone of the development program. During the coming months further 50-60 test flights will be carried out to mature the engine in terms of reliability, safety and airworthiness. These trials would pave the way for further flight trials of Kaveri Engine with a fighter aircraft.

An existing IL-76 aircraft was modified as a Flying Test Bed for this trial, with Kaveri engine replacing one of the four engines of the aircraft. The modifications included instrumentation required for trials as well as integration of mechanical, electrical and fuel system. The engine was controlled by the pilot from the cockpit. A number of taxi trials were carried out with Kaveri Engine integrated with the aircraft, before this maiden flight. The engine data was recorded in the aircraft as well as transmitted to ground station by telemetry."

India is not claiming Kaveri Engine is the best in the world but have a tie up with SNECMA for further development of the Engine.


Performance details (from Wikipedia)

Maximum thrust:
    • Military thrust (throttled):11,687 lbf (52.0 kN)
    • Full afterburner:18,210 lbf (81.0 kN)
    • Specific fuel consumption:
    • Military thrust: 0.78 lb/(lbf•h) (79.52 kg/(kN·h))
    • Full afterburner: 2.03 lb/(lbf•h) (207.00 kg/(kN·h))
    • Thrust-to-weight ratio: 7.8:1 (76.0 N/kg)

LCA Tejas is the world's smallest, light weight, multi-role combat aircraft. Use of composites in the LCA resulted in a 40% reduction in the total number of parts compared to using a metallic frame. Furthermore, the number of fasteners has been reduced by half in the composite structure from the 10,000 that would have been required in a metallic frame design. The composite design also helped to avoid about 2,000 holes being drilled into the airframe. You just imagine how many thousands of holes drilled to JF17 metal Air-frame which will result in fatigue in addition to Chinese WS Engines !! It will be ideal for them to get upgraded F-16s & Mirage IIIs instead of going for JF-17's. Life of skilled PAF pilot is valuable for their wife & children. muahaha !! haha mua mua !!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn1_iqD2xCo"]YouTube - LCA VS JF 17[/ame]

Kaveri Engine is now being considered for Indian Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) not for LCA and it needs to undergo further tests shortly !!

At a Glance
    • Powerplant: 1xF404-GE-IN20)
      Thrust (Dry): 54.9 kN (12,250 lbs)
      Thrust (Afterburner): 85 kN (19,000 lbs)
      13.2 m Wing Span 8.2 m Height 4.4 m
    • Wing Area 38.4 sq m
    • Maximum Speed 1350 kph
    • CAS Service Ceiling 15000 m
    • Air-to-Air Missiles CCM/BVR

      The decision to develop a Mk-2 version of Tejas LCA was taken in September 2008,

    • http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/yo54fmdhy2mq/8ume0t/imgp5430lr.jpg

      The GE-F404 powered Tejas doesn't meet IAF requirements, so a followup version of the Tejas is being developed with a more powerful engine. Ironically, LCA Tejas Mk-2 will be the real LCA that the IAF sought to begin with. There is an aircraft industry in India with skilled manpower unlike to PAC Camra with painters. They can modify LCA Tejas to MKII, MKIII A.....

      [*]:pray: Thumb licking kid can lick the other middle finger also.:pray:
Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) Indian Stealth Air-Air Combat Capabilities

Long Range Combat

  • 1. Low Radar Signature
  • 2. Extended detection range and targeting
  • 3. Supercruise
  • 4. Supersonic weapon release
Short Range Combat
    1. Low IR signature
    2. Thrust Vectoring
    3. High AOA controllability
    4. All aspect missile warning system
Air-Ground Capabilities

1. Stealth Missions
2. Suppression of Enemy Air Defense (SEAD)
3. Precision strike
4. Special missions

Sensor Suite
    1. AESA radar
    2. IRST
Weapon Suite

1. BVR Missile
2. Close Combat Missile
4. PGM

Some of the advanced Features ....
    • Stealth
    • Electronic Warfare
    • Shaping for Low Observability (LO)
    • Internal Weapons
    • Future Missiles
    • Stand-Off Weapons
    • Precision Weapons
    • Net Centric warfare
    • Appropriate EW
[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono][FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]"Anyone who puts a small gloss on a fundamental technology, calls it proprietary, and then tries to keep others from building on it, is a thief".[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono][FONT=Courier New, Courier, mono]-Tim O'Reilly[/FONT][/FONT]

Kaveri Engine do have some plus points and in line with most of the advanced aircraft engines of 2010 - 2020 technology.
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LCA Tejas resemblance with French Mirage 2000

LCA shares in common feautures with the French Mirage-2000 is that both are delta winged single engined multirole aircrafts. Nothing more or nothing less than that. Mirage is a super fighterjet ofcourse. In 18th century an Indian Scientist Shivkar Bapuji Talpade tested a flying machine at Chowpathy, Mumbai with mercury engines believed to be re-invented from ancient Sanskrit scrolls

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBvYGj7zh1o"]YouTube - ‪Vimanas: Ancient Indian flying machines, UFOs, or Sanskrit Sci fi?‬‏[/ame]

Here is a comparative side by side showing the totally independent designs of the LCA and the Mirage (the image is not to scale)


the RCS of the LCA is 1/3 rd that of the Mirage !!!


India sought a tie up with French Snecma for the development of Kaveri Engine. They supplied a new core to the Engine.

During 1964- 1977 India attempted to build a supersonic fighter : HAL HF-24 Marut Mk 1T [D1695]) MARUT
Development of the Marut: (the HF-24, designed by the great German WWII Designer Kurt Tank). HF-24 was to use engines with more power. Some European manufacturers were not willing to supply matching engines to India for Marut HF-24. . :cry: A prototype was built(1961). HF24 Marut have close resemblance with French Mirage.


Infact the LCA when inducted should be given a HF-xx designation, following the naming pattern (HF standing for Hindusthan Fighter). Infact the phrase LCA is equivalent to "ATF" of the F-22 programme...and Tejas is equivalent to the Phrase "raptor" or "maruth" of the F-22 and HF-24's. In most probability the LCA will be called the HF-84 Tejas

Some History during 1970-1971 (IAF- PAF)

During Indo-Pakistan war 1971, IAF was using Folland Gnats (British - smallest fighter jet of 1970's ) against PAF.
The PAF's mainstay was the F-86F Sabre. The F-86F Sabre (sometimes called the Sabrejet). Sabrejets were a larger aircrafts when compared to IAF Gnats . In the intial stages of the war PAF scored some victories but in later stages of war, we witnessed a large number of PAF Sabrejets were shot down. News of the incident and the famous gun camera shots were splashed across /hit newspaper headlines the world over like lightning and the tiny Gnat acquired a reputation of being the Sabre killer. By the end of 1971, the Gnat proved to be a frustrating opponent for the technically superior Sabres and had lived up to its Indian Air Force nickname of "Sabre Slayers" since all its combat "kills" during the two wars were against Sabres. The success of the indigenously produced Gnats against the more sophisticated Pakistani-flown aircrafts were viewed as a significant achievement. Details of IAF 1971 operations can be viewed if you click on the links below.

An analysis: Sabrejet (PAF) was a successfull fighter jet during Korean war. Sabrejet was a fighter /bomber. These qualities contributed adding extra weight to the aircraft which subsequently affected Thrust to weight ratio. Sabrejet Engines could not develop/provide the required thrust for Indian battle front and to counter Folland Gnat's quick maneuverability. Folland Gnats were very hard to spot at low levels. The war scenarios in Korean & Indian sub-continents were entirely different. Can you imagine the size & maneuverability of a motor cycle with a large Cargo Trailer Truck? Sabrejet was little bit difficult to maneuver due to it's larger size, cannons & bomb load/weight.

(F-86F Sabre)

· 5,300 lb (2,400 kg) of payload on four external hardpoints,
· 2 × 200 gallons drop tanks to give the Sabre a useful range. A wide variety of bombs can be carried
· 2 × 1,000 lb bombs plus two drop tanks), napalm bomb /tactical nuclear weapon.


  • 2x 30mm ADEN cannons
  • 2x 500 lb (227 kg) bombs or 18x 3 in (76 mm) rockets
Because of these key factors, maneuverability Sabrejet (PAF) decreased to a greater extend as per British experts/ Russian Military Review Magazine of 1985's. Gnat was only a Fighter jet with reduced bomb loads, easy to maneuver can be used like a motor bike. The Battle fields will never accept mistakes either technological or pilot errors. PAF was inactive during naval attack of Karachi harbour by Indian Navy (IN). The IAF Pilots rated the Mirage-III as the best PAF fighter & were afraid to confront. To their (IAF) surprise, they were not used :sleep: in 1971 war !!. :roll: IAF Mig-21 fighter jets performance was also superior/decisive in the battle. It was the only IAF Fighter jet could catch up with PAF Mirages. This experience with small fighter jets made India to go for designing LCA Tejas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Folland_Gnat :rockin:
http://www.subcontinent.com/1971war/skies.html :read:


History will repeat again ?? Wait & see !! "This is not pull ...mua. ha"

Air-force Pilots should know "The battle fields will never forgive mistakes (technological or mechanical or pilot or any type of errors) and should expect each battle field scenerios are different".
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[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IM3jtk3n5bA"]YouTube - ‪Chinese J-XX J-20 vs F-22 PAK-FA T-50 F-35 Stealth Fighter Comparison‬‏[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXinpChdW4M"]YouTube - Broadcast Yourself.[/ame]

Still Chinese are experimenting with JXX & most of the Internet pics are still pics !! using 3D Max /Adobephotoshop technology !! like Pakis

With RD 93 Russian engines JF-17T, with WS13 Chinese it is JF-17B*

** Blunder
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Pakistani defence minister Chaudhry Ahmad Mukhtar Statement



In an interview to BBC Urdu, Pakistani defence minister Chaudhry Ahmad Mukhtar said that it is impossible for Pakistan to bring its military power on par with India as it cannot afford it during current financial scenario. :crybaby:

He further said that in earlier days capacity of Pakistan and India to fight was twenty to twenty two days. But with the advancement and development in India, India can fight for more than 45 days !!:box::rock: A few Pakistani ministers have brain !! Defence minister Chaudhry Ahmad Mukhtar is one opf them.

Chinese lost to Russia in manufacturing engines. Now Chinese are begging for engines. India scored some points inthis technology !!:sorry:
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By the development 80 kN engines DRDO is now capable of supplying engines to manufacture Drones which doesnot require high thrust (90-110 kn) for Tejas LCA.

First 20 Tejas LCA will be powered by GE-404 engines, the next six Mark-II squadrons (16-18 jets in each) will have the new more powerful GE F-414 engines. Under the LCA project, which itself has been 28 years in the making with an almost 3,000% jump in overall developmental costs, IAF hopes to have its first two fully-operational Tejas squadrons based at the Sulur airbase (South India) by 2015 now.

If you turn back into history IAF Mig 25 Foxbats had flew over Paksitan at Mac 2.5+ speed in 1970's. PAF could do nothing with their slow moving fighter jets. Su PAKFA can fly over Pakis undetected.
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Indian project is still in the process of development so far and did not enter into the actual production as well as quantitative production
For the aircraft of Pakistan, the project began years ago and went into actual production and the introduction of a range of developments him to Pakistan is now nearly 20 aircraft in service and there are 40 other aircraft will enter by the year 2014 and this means that Pakistan will have 60 aircraft as well as program for the development of theProgram to develop aircraft in India, Pakistan, India is superior to the flare by the revolution of the people there sleeping on the sidewalks and streets, because India is spending all its armament and to forget the people, is what happened in the Soviet Union collapsed
Pakistan is the strongest and the fastest the United States and the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia support the Pakistan capital and techniques necessary
JF 17 Engine issue

Russia's Klimov offered a variant of the RD-33 turbofan engine to power the fighter. Russia earlier had denied China from transferring the engine to Pakistan as it was against Russian policy and India's interest, but later, for some reason, Russia had no issue in China supplying those engines to Pakistan. To international media they replied in diplomatic parlance, Chinese were in such a hurry that they had not heard the last word from Russia on this subject. It is believed that Pakistan is unsatisfied with the engine and a new deal for a different engine, most probably to have Snecma M53-P2 could be finalized.

As we can see Pakistan merely getting experience on painting while Chinese designing & producing JF 17 fighter jets. The missiles issue also the same. They have no space programs till this date. So anybody can imagine what Pakistanis are doing with JF-17 & Missiles (Chinese Reverse engineered Tomahawk missiles used in Afghanistan). Painted green, made in Paksitan Hatf 1,2,3 ..., Ghori ..... !!

Attached a foto of Pakistani JF 17 pilot taking a Chai (tea) un detected while on a stealth mission surprise attack by road to Delhi India on Chichwatni by-pass road:horsie:
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LCA Tejas of Indian Air Force(IAF) is more than enough for Chinese Pakistani mad JF17. Using much more older aircrafts of IAF won 1971 war even though Pakistani Air Force -PAF had Advanced Aircrafts. To IAF surprise they did not use it in war? !! For example browse in youtube the battle of Longewala :biggun:. Tejas is more than enough for Chinese PLAAF & Pakis -PAF.