If Hitler died early? Germany vs Allies

G

gladius

Active member
This is a two part question.

What if Hitler died early, could the German generals (Manstien, Romel, ect.,) have induced a stalemate against the combined might of the Allies. The more I think about this the more unlikely this might have happened given the massive resources of the Allies. I'm asking this question barring the USA dropping the A-bomb on Berlin, let's assume they still drop it on Japan only.

1) Could Germany have forced a stalemate, say if Hilter died two months before D-Day?

At this point I'm guessing probably maybe, but they would have to get lucky somehow. Under normal circumstances it would have been very hard, if not near impossible.

2) Could Germany have forced a stalemate, say if Hilter died two months after D-Day?

At this point, I'm pretty sure the answer is no. The vice-like pressure from both East and West was just too much. I'm sure they could have delayed it, but still they would have lost.

Do most here have the same thoughts on this? I don't see any way Germany could have forced a stalemate especially on the second part. On the fist part there still is somewhat of a chance. The reason I'm asking is I'm still not entirely sure, could they have done it?
 
If Hitler had died early then they would be to busy fighting over who would be the next leader to realy care about making a stalemate. another thing is they would have probably keept the war going claiming it was the will of the Late Fuhrer, you have to remember Hitler put himself as a god to the people at first.
 
what if?

If Hitler died earlier, would of USA joined world war? would of their been a world invasion huh
 
First of all the war is already well underway the US is already involved, (two montsh before D-day). I wasn't talking before the war, if that happened there would probably be no war.

Secondly, does anyone remember the failed plot to kill Hitler. This happened during WWII. They tried to assasinate him but it failed. They arrested all his cronies, they had already everthing set up of who was going to take over the government, so there would NOT have been an internal struggle, of them fighting with themsleves. There were also other plot besides this one but none ever came this close

This is the whole premise of the question, could the German high command effectively force a stalemate against the Allies, with Hitler's mismanagement out of the way? I could see them doing it against the Russians alone, but with the Western Allies as well it would be near impossible.
 
gladius said:
First of all the war is already well underway the US is already involved, (two montsh before D-day). I wasn't talking before the war, if that happened there would probably be no war.

Secondly, does anyone remember the failed plot to kill Hitler. This happened during WWII. They tried to assasinate him but it failed. They arrested all his cronies, they had already everthing set up of who was going to take over the government, so there would NOT have been an internal struggle, of them fighting with themsleves. There were also other plot besides this one but none ever came this close

This is the whole premise of the question, could the German high command effectively force a stalemate against the Allies, with Hitler's mismanagement out of the way? I could see them doing it against the Russians alone, but with the Western Allies as well it would be near impossible.
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No. The war is already over for Germany by this time, whether or not the Western Allies are directly involved. From here on in the Red Army and the VVS (with critical Lend Lease support) can beat the Germans all by themselves. Germany's last chance to force any kind of stalemate was at Kursk in mid '43. After that battle had not brought about the expected victory it was only a matter of time before the Germans were defeated.

Stalin reputedly offered a stalemate to Hitler in early '43, after the recapture of Kharkov by Manstein. Hitler turned it down flat as he was still convinced that ultimate victory was achievable. Even if Kursk had been successful, decisive victory was no longer possible. A limited victory however, still would have been within reach.
 
help me??

Ok I don't wanna start any arguements, buit wasn't the usa only fully fledged into ww2 in 1941................i mean yeah i know they sent over willing pilots etc but it wasn't til 1941 that america joined like england had been from day 1?

I can remember history at school and watching tv documentry's (not by choice) on it.

But its just a question
 
If Hitler died early there would have been a surrender.
And there were several plots against Hitler if memory serves correct.
 
I think that if hitler die AFTER the war had started but BEFORE D-Day then the germans would have won. Why? because it was hitlers stubborn-ness and lack of military talent that held the germans up so much in russia....if he would have left it to his generals...the best in the world experience wise..they would have beaten russia..and had their entire army on the western front...that and unlimeted supplies coming from russia and germany
 
Hmmm... Il be honest I have never really been sold on the "blame everything on Hitlers mismanagement" theory as to why the eastern front eventually turned against the germans.

Unless someone really wants to point out how Hitler played a greater part in the german defeat than simple logistical failures and that without Hitler these same logistical failures could have been overcome I fail too see how Hitlers death at almost any stage would really have changed things for the better of the german war effort.
 
beardo said:
I think that if hitler die AFTER the war had started but BEFORE D-Day then the germans would have won. Why? because it was hitlers stubborn-ness and lack of military talent that held the germans up so much in russia....if he would have left it to his generals...the best in the world experience wise..they would have beaten russia..and had their entire army on the western front...that and unlimeted supplies coming from russia and germany
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Hi. By 1944 the Germans had ALREADY lost the chance to win the war so whether Hitler dies then or not makes no difference.

Had Hitler died in early 1943 then things may have been different.
 
Earling said:
Hmmm... Il be honest I have never really been sold on the "blame everything on Hitlers mismanagement" theory as to why the eastern front eventually turned against the germans.

Unless someone really wants to point out how Hitler played a greater part in the german defeat than simple logistical failures and that without Hitler these same logistical failures could have been overcome I fail too see how Hitlers death at almost any stage would really have changed things for the better of the german war effort.
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Hi Earling. If you do a search under my name and find some of my posts hopefully that will go some way to explaining why. Hitler was not to blame for everything and far from being an idiot was a very intelligent man with a good grasp of strategy. Also, the Germans did not lose due to simple logistical failures alone, although these did contribute in some way.

Hitler's death in early 1943 may have allowed Germany to negotiate a limited victory with Stalin. Stalin himself apparently offered negotiation at this time but Hitler refused. Also, Hitler's death at this time may have either meant that Operation Zitadelle (Kursk) would have gone ahead earlier or not at all. This battle, along with Stalingrad, is what decided Germany's fate in the East.
 
Doppleganger said:
Hi. By 1944 the Germans had ALREADY lost the chance to win the war so whether Hitler dies then or not makes no difference.

Had Hitler died in early 1943 then things may have been different.
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I meant if he died after they had gone to war...maybe 1940 or just after they invaded russia

It was his stubborness that cost the germans dearly...he didnt need to take stalingrad...the germans were held back for so long there..and tying up so much armour and men...he should have left it...but it was a personal thing for him and he wanted to take it...against the advice of his generals
 
Thier was an estimated 44 plots aginast the Fuhrers life during his 'term' in office. Ironicly most of them was not supported by the allies in any way.
 
If Hitler was dead sooner, Germany would surely surrender sooner. However many of his close advisors can continue his work through Heinreich Himmler, Geobbels, Goering (However he was addicted to some sort of intoxicating drug). But, the question remains too ambigious and altering history can create an infinite amount of possibilities.
 
I agree with you,
His advisors probably would have kept the war going for a time. Cause Hitler made all the decisions for war so it would be different people coming in making all the decisions wich would change how everything was done. The main thing Hitler dying sooner would do was that it would possibly create a time of mourning in Germany wich would allow the allies to come in and attack.
 
Darcia said:
Thier was an estimated 44 plots aginast the Fuhrers life during his 'term' in office. Ironicly most of them was not supported by the allies in any way.
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I think the Allies knew that Hitler was an asset to them, maybe thats why they didn't support them.

Ever seen the movie "Dirty Dozen II" they even mention this in there. They even got a chance to kill Hitler himself, their sniper had him in his sights and they all started to argue about who to kill, Hilter, or this other guy standing next to him who was also a danger.... well anyways you have to see the movie.

Doppleganger said:
Hi. By 1944 the Germans had ALREADY lost the chance to win the war so whether Hitler dies then or not makes no difference.

Had Hitler died in early 1943 then things may have been different.
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I agree with Dopp here, by 1944 they had already lost the chance to win. However I wonder if the German Generals could still have forced a stalemate, not necaserily winning but merely stopping the Allies form taking over Germany.
 
beardo said:
I think that if hitler die AFTER the war had started but BEFORE D-Day then the germans would have won. Why? because it was hitlers stubborn-ness and lack of military talent that held the germans up so much in russia....if he would have left it to his generals...the best in the world experience wise..they would have beaten russia..and had their entire army on the western front...that and unlimeted supplies coming from russia and germany
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Actually hitler failed to invade england......................the dog fights ( battle of britian) state to one of the most tactical part of WW2................ok the germans hit us hard and we ould of lost if hitler kept on that line but instead he turned his pilots to bomb cities in england which then gave the RAF the chance to recoup and end up pushing germans out, they were defeated..............even hitler kept trying to break us and even at our lowest point we still kicked him out.

So i dunno if hitler had the power to get his pilots over to states, cus the planes he used (began with L but can't spell) did not have the distance in them.....but when the germans built the jets engines or the bigger bombers maybe
 
Gladius,

In this situation that Hitler was murdered early, who would take over as Reichspräsident? Before Hitler commited suicide he chose Karl Donitz as Reichspräsident because of his huge distrust of Hermann Göring and Heinrich Himmler, it kind of depends on who succeeded Hitler in office to determine whether or not they would have even attempted to make a peace agreement.
 
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