How is More Less ?
Hey come on some of my best friends are women, I love women... as often as possible in fact.
.
Wahey!
brinktk
Active member
Oops.. excuse me. I must've taken a wrong turn back there. I thought this was IMF but it looks like it could be the "He Man Woman Hater's Club" instead... so sorry.....
www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jNICI38fEc
There it is...it was a matter of time.
Yossarian
Forum Resistance Leader
brinktk
Active member
I was saying it more generally. Anytime men try to have a conversation about anything to do with male issues...we are shamed in an attempt to "toe the line and shut up". It is another societal symptom that nobody is really interested in mens problems.
That is all fine and good...people can keep telling us we are evil, woman haters, or rapists all they want...just don't be surprised when men decide(as is becoming the case more and more) to simply walk away from the whole game.
Equality comes with responsibility, it cannot be any other way.
Yossarian
Forum Resistance Leader
You know what ever since the moment I told my ex fiance that I could no longer afford to pay for her lifestyle I went from being the best man she had to being literally I quote : A cheating low lifed piece of punk *** s***. And I was 5 years younger than the woman. I aparently also cheated frequently, was an alchoholic probably on drugs who didn't listen or had any compassion what so ever in this one sided arrangement.
My biggest crime was wanting to save so we could have food to eat and not spend what little I had left to spend on those important things, like concert tickets, seat covers and rims for her car.
I still have that bad taste in my mouth, and honestly has compelled me like some other guys I know to just do exactly that, not put up with it, now I really don't have any compassion, now I really don't open my wallet for anything and right now, I really don't see the point of spend not only thousands upon thousands on the circus like idea that has become the modern wedding but not wasting years upon years of my life stuck in another miserable situation when I can be happier doing what I am now.
Living my own life.
This seems to be the trend anymore, and soon the legal power may be on the women's side but the social happiness will be swayed to all the males who figure out you don't need marriage to live life to it's fullest anymore.
This won't account for %100 of all people for sure, but expect it to much more common in the near future as homosexual relationships for example are today compared to 30 years ago.
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brinktk
Active member
This example is a poignant reminder that this IS happening. If we aren't good enough for the million expectations that are now placed on us by the liberated woman...(without being demonized for having our own expectations in return) Men will just stop giving a crap. MGTOW was one of top five most searched acronyms on google in 2013 and 2014. More and more they are realizing they don't want all the hassle that comes from the relationship game because it has turned into a zero sum game.
55% of marriages end in divorce.
70-75% of all divorces are initiated by women.
90% of ALL alimony money is paid by men.
Furthermore, no matter how good of a father we are, or how good of a husband we were...if the woman decides, she could literally deny us access to our children, force us into slavery through alimony and child support. (which happens all the time) If we don't toe the line, the state will force us to, and men with guns will knock on our door and throw us in prison while crocodile tears flow in the background.
This is the reality young men face these days. They are doing the cost benefit analysis and they are finding that they will never be able to win...things will always be our fault...noone will ever take what we say seriously. So huge amounts of young men are simply not playing the game.
What are they finding out? Not only is it cheaper, but they are learning that they are now allowed to be happy without slaving themselves trying to make someone else happy with diminishing returns in their investment. Fingers are worked to the bone only to still be told we are abusive or stupid or oppressive or worthless...so why bother?
"Where have all the good men gone?"...They've been there all along. After being crapped on most of their lives by the very women they were trying to court and be nice/chivalrous to...they realized that (mostly) those women weren't interested in that guy...so they took their ball and went home. They are giving true equality to everyone in the form of no special treatment...and apparently that is problematic.
Yossarian
Forum Resistance Leader
That's what I am learning now, I was demoted at my old job because of complications caused by my significant other at the time wanting my and expecting me to call in using sick time to go out and do things, like food festivals, go to the beach because her girlfriend from some trip from California is in town.
Not realizing the real consequences of my absenteeism, but if I didn't go? Then I was obviously cheating with someone at my job. Or was hungover from my rabbid alcoholism. Or hiding something, or not supportive, and a negative personality to be around.
But I stuck it out, as long as I could, sold my vehicle, bought her an engagement ring, which was pawned without my knowing because she blew her money before she quit her job because she didn't "get along" with her manager. (Who really I met the guy only wanted her to actually show up on time, a legitimate grievance from any job.)
My Dad being the best father any young man could have eventually mentioned his first marriage to my mother, and told me "son, I been exactly where you are now, and you better think hard before you go on ahead and pop out a few kids."
So eventually, going by social pressures of society I offered her to move back in with her mother, while I sort out all the debt we had accumulated, and close out our lease on our place. Even offered to help her pack, at least until we are more stable to survive primarily off my butchered paycheck from my demotion.
Soon as I offered, she dumped me on the spot, it was a Thursday, and right before Valentines, which would have killed another paycheck. Never married, 21 years old, no car almost 100 miles form home in a city I didn't know, she left me up to my eyeballs in debt. Lost my truck, rode the bus for a few months living in a deep depression as little by little all her things were moved out of our place until I was on my own. Buying groceries like a hobo and carrying em home in a gym bag. Taking my truck tag to turn into the tag office on foot. Taking out loans to survive in an apartment meant to have two working people paying on, now just me.
And you know what happened next?
Drank 3 fith bottles of whiskey dumped my last 30 bucks on fine cigars,
Moved home, got an amazing Job with the RR and now work part time doing nursery work (flowers). Mainly to get out and offer plant knowledge to all the pretty ladies out in the spring time weather. Sometimes I do "house calls".
Got a fat wallet a brand new car debt free and don't feel guilty going to bed early, don't feel guilty buying new work boots, or hell even a case of beer. Live in a nice house now, I can get out and spend all day roasting a wild hog with my Grandad talking about trains, cars, county politics and not worry about my phone blowing up with accusations I'm out being unfaithful.
And you know what? Learning this at 21? You think your going to see me at the courthouse anytime soon? Yea I love women, but honestly, it's so much easier when they come in my front door at 11PM and are out that same door by 9am.
Love you all ladies, there are some amazing ones out there, but I am just fine. And don't anyone dare say "you'll find someone someday". Because I am not looking, and honestly times often change faster than old adages do...
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MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
This is starting to sound like battered wives syndrome and my advice remains the same, if your relationship sucks then pack your shit and move on don't sit around looking for people to blame, crying about it not working or making compromises to fix it as it just doesn't work.
MGTOW is fine but it isn't all that new and quite honestly it should be PGTOW (P=People) as no one should be in a relationship that stiffles them.
And once again this is a failing of the legal system and you really cant blame people for taking advantage of it, lets face it if the government tomorrow reversed the roles then I guarantee the same stories would emerge from the other side.
So in reality the problem is solving itself.
Yossarian
Forum Resistance Leader
When I was in college for criminal justice we had to do case analysis of legal law along with social laws.
The later being social norms and unofficial status qou.
In the case of women's rights it started as it should, a legal look at man/woman relations. But now it has mutated into something that is not healthy, legislating social law into legal binding conditions.
Good moral character, and an good conscience just can't be legislated, it has to be developed on it's own. You cannot write good behavior into law and the more you force feed it down men's throats the less they will be willing to enter traditional marriage.
In itsself marriage seems more a financial arrangement anymore, and is on the decline, and I mean, the disappearing decline.
The later being social norms and unofficial status qou.
In the case of women's rights it started as it should, a legal look at man/woman relations. But now it has mutated into something that is not healthy, legislating social law into legal binding conditions.
Good moral character, and an good conscience just can't be legislated, it has to be developed on it's own. You cannot write good behavior into law and the more you force feed it down men's throats the less they will be willing to enter traditional marriage.
In itsself marriage seems more a financial arrangement anymore, and is on the decline, and I mean, the disappearing decline.
brinktk
Active member
I think you misunderstand me. You are assuming I'm simply bitter because you think I'm in a "crappy relationship". Nothing could be further from the truth, I lucked out and found the proverbial unicorn. This doesn't mean I don't see it all around me though. It also doesn't mean that my children won't be affected by it either. Nice try at telling me to "man up" though...I really needed that.
Teaching at a university these last few years has been eye opening as to this problem. I'm not sure if New Zealand is comparible to the US...All I can say here is that it is a big problem. Political correctness has paralyzed productivity and mediocrity reigns...if you don't walk on eggshells to preserve peoples feelings then it could potentially be a career ender. That is a problem.
It is the legal system as you say. Should I simply throw my hands up and say "oh well"? The government WON'T reverse it...not unless a lot of men AND women get pissed off enough to make them change it. This is starting to happen, but it is going to get worse before it gets better. A little activism goes a long way. I'm simply doing my part...
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I am not saying that anything you have posted is wrong, inaccurate or doesn't happen because it does but it seems to me you have become fixated on the result and not on correcting the issues that have led to that result.
It is not about correcting the result it is about changing the parameters so that the result does not occur and if you want to achieve this then the simple answer is that men need to man up and stop being a bunch of pussy whipped wastes of skin, if you want a relationship of equals then people have to be equals.
The problem is that as with most things it is like a pendulum and that tends to swing from one extreme to the other which is not what anyone needs either.
brinktk
Active member
How does one not be a "pussy whipped waste of skin" then?
Get a job?
Go to college?
Shut up and stop whining?
Work until your bones fall out?
Men can do everything right...or wrong, and it doesn't matter. Unless they have gobs of money to pay on lawyer fees, they are gonna get crushed by the legal system at the hands of their woman, if she so desires. There is nothing they can do about it. Not yet. So they are walking away from it which is a natural result. They are showing how reliant the whole system is on men, and they are showing both the uber feminists and the legal system how easily their house of cards will fall if men don't play. They are treating women with the equality they never really wanted in the first place.
what is your solution for "changing the parameters of that result"?
Get a job?
Go to college?
Shut up and stop whining?
Work until your bones fall out?
Men can do everything right...or wrong, and it doesn't matter. Unless they have gobs of money to pay on lawyer fees, they are gonna get crushed by the legal system at the hands of their woman, if she so desires. There is nothing they can do about it. Not yet. So they are walking away from it which is a natural result. They are showing how reliant the whole system is on men, and they are showing both the uber feminists and the legal system how easily their house of cards will fall if men don't play. They are treating women with the equality they never really wanted in the first place.
what is your solution for "changing the parameters of that result"?
Yossarian
Forum Resistance Leader
I feel in the pursuit of ultra equality on terms of legality with women, it's having the opposite affect socially in the long run for women socially.
Women I meet now who are either going through a divorce or single are wondering why all men anymore could car less and are ****oles is understandable.
I went through the entire spectrum myself, from tying to balance a good moral out look on relationships to going through the stripped down phase, where no matter how hard a man can try he will lose when the woman he is with wants to pick him clean of nothing but change.
After that allot of guys fear commitment and just outright like I do now, spiteful of what any long term involvement has with an %60-%75 fail rate leading to life damaging consequences.
It drives men to take what they can without committing and treating women worse off now than before this whole legality circus ever got drafted.
That's why women now often find there are no good men out there anymore, not because they don't exist, but mainly because there is as mentioned:
No point in being a good man anymore. The legal system has destroyed the social balance.
Women I meet now who are either going through a divorce or single are wondering why all men anymore could car less and are ****oles is understandable.
I went through the entire spectrum myself, from tying to balance a good moral out look on relationships to going through the stripped down phase, where no matter how hard a man can try he will lose when the woman he is with wants to pick him clean of nothing but change.
After that allot of guys fear commitment and just outright like I do now, spiteful of what any long term involvement has with an %60-%75 fail rate leading to life damaging consequences.
It drives men to take what they can without committing and treating women worse off now than before this whole legality circus ever got drafted.
That's why women now often find there are no good men out there anymore, not because they don't exist, but mainly because there is as mentioned:
No point in being a good man anymore. The legal system has destroyed the social balance.
I believe one has to man up. If you behave as a pussy whipped wimp expect to be walked all over. A good women is worth her weight in gold but you must be worthy of her love and respect for the marriage - relationship to work.
Rule #2 drop the losers and nut cases like hot potato's. Don't try and analyze the situation just end it.
Yossarian
Forum Resistance Leader
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
You are a combat veteran before you went into combat what did you do?
Did you prepare as best you could for what you were going to face, think through your actions etc. or did you just get up in the morning and think "Yay I am invading Iraq today" and run off towards Baghdad with a packet of Doritos and a rifle under your arm?
Men and women need to realise life is a struggle from start to finish and it is up to the individual to primarily get themselves through it and then pull those around them through as best they can it is not about living in each others pockets until you cant stand each other any more and going through some acrimonious court case.
So my answer to your questions is, you plan for success and failure, you analyse every situation and you do what is right for you and if it goes wrong you adapt and move on but this applies to everyone.
Which means yes you get an education, you get a job and chances are you will work until your bones fall out but realise you will make mistakes so learn from those mistakes and stop repeating them time after time and for the love of what ever deity you want to back stop trying to blame other people for the mistakes you make just make the right call for you and move on.
Exactly although you have to analyse the situation to realise you have a nutcase or loser.
Here is another option how about going through life being yourself rather than molding yourself to the personality of those you are trying to impress, if a relationship is going to work it will be because of who you are not who you are trying to be this week.
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All I know Yossarian is that after numerous difficult relationship and much frustration. I learned as soon as I started to recognize the signs of major issues (that I knew would only get worse in time), I refused to allow myself to be pulled in and cut the chords. Sometimes these game playing women tried to reel me back in, to no avail. Of course this is not to say there aren't some wonderful women out there my wife is one.
Yossarian
Forum Resistance Leader
I think your misunderstanding, but that is exactly what I am doing, and if someone does not enjoy it, kindly I say let it be and move on.
Allot of jaws drop when you don't change from one person to the next it seems anymore.
And as mentioned, I don't want any kind of servitude based relationship, once more I don't understand many people's inability to grasp the concept that it's not for everyone.
You cannot be happy with someone else if you are not happy with yourself first, and I am completely content with myself.
Yes, there are good people out there, yes people do die with one marriage in their lives in Western Countries still but it's on the decline, and there is no doubt about it.