Help the expert please ( Fahenheit 911 ).

I

Italian Guy

Milforum Hitman
Hi guys. I am one of the world's most expert debunkers of
Fahrenheit 911.
I know it all about Moore's lies from A to Z.
I can help anyone with doubts.

I just need to ask something: there's a scene in the film where two Marines' recruiters are shown at a shopping mall ( supposed to be around Flint, Mich. ).
Last night I was told that the two are shown cheating guys.
They approached guys saying "Hey bro sign here so that you won't have to be a Marine". The guy would sign (convinced they would dodge war) and after that the two recruiters say "Here we go we just got one more enlisted here".

Uhm... I know there are two major contradictions about it:

1. How can one possibly believe two MC recruiters help guys to dodge the service? They are recruiters!

2. Why should people have to sign in order not to be a soldier, since the US Military is made up of volunteers? So you gotta do virtually nothing, in theory.

Could anyone help me with this please? I mean what's wrong with this scene? did the recruiters actually say that?
Thanks everybody.
 
Finding stuff.


Moore starts here to make the case that the military seeks out the minority population to serve and die at the white population’s leisure. To help develop this impression, he introduces the audience to two Marine Corps recruiters, and describes part of their recruiting strategy to bolster his “opinion”:

Moore:

They decided not to go to the wealthier Genesee Valley Mall in the suburbs. They have a hard time recruiting people there. Instead, they went to the other mall.(The Courtland center)-cut to a scene of the Marines driving and pointing out possible people they would want to interview as the head to the Courtalnd Center Mall.

I decided to look up these two malls:

COURTLAND CENTER
G-4190 E. Court, Burton, 48509

With over 97 fine stores and restaurants, Courtland Center is anchored by JCPenney and Mervyn’s. Courtland Center also features a food court, as well as Old Country Buffet. Courtland Center is conveniently located at I-69, Center Road and Court Street. Gift certificates and Michigan Lottery are available. Courtland Center’s operating hours are: Monday - Saturday 10:00am to 9:00pm and Sunday 12:00pm to 6:00pm.

GENESEE VALLEY CENTER
3341 Linden Rd. (Linden/Miller intersection), Flint, 48507
(810) 732-4000
Super regional shopping center with 140 stores including J.C. Penney, Sears, Marshall Fields and Mervyn’s.

vitis Flint . com
Actually, The Courtland center is in the suburbs of Flint, in Burton , Michigan, while Genesee Mall is closer to downtown. (I don’t want to be accused of being nit-picky, that’s just what the mapquest diagram showed me.)

Now, believe it or not, this is the extent of what Moore spoke of on this issue personally in the movie. He did expand on the theme in a later segment later in the movie, showing the pair of US Marine Corps recruiters at the Courtland Center Mall. The two Marines approach several young men and hand out cards, most of the young men were black or minority citizens. ( at least the ones we see on film) But the impression has been made, the conspiracy starts to take on a personality of its own, helped along, of course by scenes like this:

Student, after talking to a recruiter-


I ran into a recruiter and, uh, there was something I noticed about it and this is kind of on another, it’s just, I noticed it was odd. It was more like he was hiring me for a job than recruiting me for the army. It was the way he approached me… approached a friend of mine. ... It was at Borders Books & Music. (video of car ride) He just came up, it was, it was his business card. He had business cards made for the army and everything.( actually, the Army had business cards made up for him, but I digress)

Here is the part of the story where Moore’s techniques really show their effectiveness. Moore fans have extrapolated this sentiment hinted in the film to the point where they are convinced that the US military actually seeks out kids from poor neighborhoods, because they are either out of options, easily persuaded, or worse, expendable citizens. The seed has been planted, the “uproar” begins
 
I havnt really got a clue what your on about but I real wanna see that film, might rent it out 2night, is it worth my two quid?
 
Fahrenheit 9/11
http://www.michaelmoore.com/special/f911-screenshots.php

Scenes from F 9/11

Marine recruiters in Flint, Michigan approaching teenagers outside a shopping mall to enlist them in the military.
(see pic at site)

Marine: "Maybe we can get you a career in music, you know, let the Marines go for it. I'm sure you know who Shaggy is, right? How about a former Marine? Did you know that?"

Baawaa. These clones must be workin on commission
 
soulja said:
I havnt really got a clue what your on about but I real wanna see that film, might rent it out 2night, is it worth my two quid?
Click to expand...


It's just a heap of lieas and Nazi- style propaganda. Before you watch the movie you'd better read this http://www.eppc.org/printVersion/print_pub.asp?pubID=2195

this http://www.davekopel.com/Terror/Fiftysix-Deceits-in-Fahrenheit-911.htm

And this http://www.workingpsychology.com/fahrenheit.html

I've read it all. worth it buddy, trust me.
 
Ok from what I've seen so far the two Marine recruiters never really say what my friend last night reported.
Could they be really working on commission?


But these anonymous soldiers are shown as duped for having believed duplicitous recruiters. If you ever saw Moore’s old yearbook picture, you’d know right away why he wouldn’t like those clean cut recruiters – (look up the reason under “psychopathology”). He shows recruiters in Flint, Michigan recruiting young black men not at the upscale Genesee Valley Mall, but at the older, smaller mall in town, the Courtland Center. I’m from Flint. Blacks go to the Genesee Valley Mall all the time – by car, bus, however. And the Courtland Center is in Burton, which is more “redneck.” And there’s nothing wrong with the Courtland Center or Burton – the area is not a pocket of desperation. Burton was a suburban township that was made into a city in the 70’s. And Flint Township where the Genesee Valley Mall is located is increasingly integrated – the most integrated part of Flint is the west side and Flint Township. There are whites, blacks – lots of prosperous blacks -- asian indians, arabs, jews – the rest of the Flint area is pretty segregated. But Moore never spends any time in Flint anymore. Now that he has made his money, he spends all of his time in France or in New York. He’s forgotten about us poor Flint folk. But he only really used Flint as a prop anyway. Besides, he’s from Davison, Michigan, anyway.
 
I found the transcript ( http://www.redlinerants.com/index.php?subaction=showfull&id=1088581422&archive=&start_from=&ucat=1&) from the scene: any Marine (Darkmb, 03USMC) to help me?


(video of Marines walking towards a Wal-Mart)

NARRATOR: Meet Marine Staff Sgt. Dale Cortman and Sgt. Raymond Flower. They are two of the many recruiters assigned to Flint, Michigan. They're very busy these days.

MARINE #1: (about man jogging) Look at him, he's runnin' around already.

MARINE #2: Yeah. Whatta we got here?

MARINE #1: A little gangsta.

MARINE #2: Yeah. Probably going over to the Courtland Mall now.

NARRATOR: They decided not to go to the wealthier Genesee Valley Mall in the suburbs. They have a hard time recruiting people there. Instead, they went to the other mall.

MARINE #1: Let's go in through Mervin's. And then we'll walk...

MARINE #2: ... straight down...

MARINE #1: ... straight back...

(cut to them walking through the parking lot, approaching two young men)

MARINE #1: Gents, you know we're looking at ya, right?

MARINE #2: You guys ever think about joining up?

PROSPECT: Thought about goin' to college to play basketball or something like that.

MARINE #1: You gonna do it?

PROSPECT: I think, oh yeah, especially to play basketball.

MARINE #1: Good. You can play ball for the Marine Corps as well, travel around the world, gettin' on Marine Corps basketball teams. David Robinson was in the military as well.

PROSPECT: Was he?

MARINE #1: Yep. So you can definitely hook it up.

(cut away)

MARINE: Right now there's somebody out there who wants to be a Marine but has no idea how to do it.

(cut back)

MARINE #2: Where do you work at?

PROSPECT: I work at KFC.

MARINE #2: Really? You can hook us up with some deals?

PROSPECT: Yeah.

(cut away)

MARINE: They're waitin' to get recruited.

(cut back)

PROSPECT: I don't know, I'm probably gonna try to get a little career in music or somethin'.

MARINE #1: Career in music. Maybe we can get you a career in music. You know what the Marines go for -- I'm sure you know who Shaggy is, right? (picture of Shaggy)

PROSPECT: Yeah.

MARINE #1: You know anything about him?

PROSPECT: Yeah, he's a Jamaican, uh, yeah...

MARINE #1: How about a former Marine?

PROSPECT: Whoa.

MARINE #1: Did you know it? ... You definitely need to know a discipline if you're gonna get into music, especially discipline with the money. If you're makin' money you need to manage that money. So come in the office, we can sit down and talk... show you everything we know about the Marines. Sound like a plan?

MARINE #2: What do you got goin' on later this afternoon? ... How about tomorrow? ... Say around ten o'clock Monday morning?

PROSPECT: Yeah, that sounds pretty good.

MARINE #1: Want me to come pick you up?

(cut away)

MARINE #2: Better to get 'em when they're one's and two's...

MARINE #1: Hey pal. / Ladies, you ready to join up. / Oh, he's young, he's young. / We got two over here. Right over by the red van. / You go that way, I go this way, we'll corner 'em.

---

MARINE #1: You're in the ninth grade?

PROSPECT: Yes sir.

MARINE #1: Man, you look older than ninth grade. So, alright. Well, here's my card...

---

MARINE #2: You ever thought about bein' a Marine, man?

MAN: Uh, thought about it, but I got a wife and kid now.

MARINE #2: Even more reason to join.

---

MARINE #1: What I want to do man, real quick, is just get some information from you so I can scratch you off my list sayin' I've already talked to you and you're not interested. Is that cool?

PROSPECT: Yeah.

MARINE #1: What's your name? / Phone number. / What's your address? / Add another one to the list.
 
This is the part concerning me :

MARINE #1: What I want to do man, real quick, is just get some information from you so I can scratch you off my list sayin' I've already talked to you and you're not interested. Is that cool?

PROSPECT: Yeah.

MARINE #1: What's your name? / Phone number. / What's your address? / Add another one to the list.
But I was thinking that maybe recruiters are credited for how many guys they approach, regardless of their actual joining up. That's what they might have meant by cheering for having added one more to the list.

How does it work?
 
I have seen it and I just want to say - That man is - For me he is like a large tick feeding on peoples grief and sorrows, the movie contains alot of BS but not everything, still that dont save him from become targeted as a tick in my eyes, this is my humble opinion about that man and his movie. :roll:

Cheers:
Doc.S
:viking:
 
Italian Guy said:
This is the part concerning me :

MARINE #1: What I want to do man, real quick, is just get some information from you so I can scratch you off my list sayin' I've already talked to you and you're not interested. Is that cool?

PROSPECT: Yeah.

MARINE #1: What's your name? / Phone number. / What's your address? / Add another one to the list.
But I was thinking that maybe recruiters are credited for how many guys they approach, regardless of their actual joining up. That's what they might have meant by cheering for having added one more to the list.

How does it work?
Click to expand...


What these Recruiters are doing is called a canvas. They get out and go where potential enlistee's are. The Mall, Football Games, Basketball Games, arcades anywhere you might find a person of enlistment age.
You walk and talk and make public contact.
There is nothing sinister about it as Moore would have you believe. All of the armed forces have practiced this for years. You can't sit in an office all day and wait for people to come to you.
Recruiters are not credited with contacts. They are credited with enlistments when they graduate RT .
 
Seriously, I think those recruiters should have said "Thinking of any ways to serve your country?". Also, I was really pissed off when I was picked up by Marine Recruiters telling me about all those dumb promotions, stupid career development, money for college, and all that crap. Instead, I was looking for something like this "We need men like you to serve our country. Are you willing to join the Marines to do that?"

Those recruiters didn't mention anything about serving our country, so I turned it down. After that absurd interview, I walked straight into the Navy Recruiting center. And please take no offense if your a Marine.
 
Secrecy said:
Seriously, I think those recruiters should have said "Thinking of any ways to serve your country?". Also, I was really pissed off when I was picked up by Marine Recruiters telling me about all those dumb promotions, stupid career development, money for college, and all that crap. Instead, I was looking for something like this "We need men like you to serve our country. Are you willing to join the Marines to do that?"

Those recruiters didn't mention anything about serving our country, so I turned it down. After that absurd interview, I walked straight into the Navy Recruiting center. And please take no offense if your a Marine.
Click to expand...


Recruiters are "selling" the Corps or whatever service. They use different "sales" appoarchs on different clients. The fact of the matter is that the majority of individuals who have a desire to serve their Country as a United States Marine will seek out the Recuiter.

Others who may be considering serving but are undecided on which branch are offered the bennies. This is especially true when they are students.

And no I'm not offended. I'm glad.
 
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