Firepower And Iraq

[Missileer]

I was thinking about this subject a couple of weeks ago and then Walter Williams wrote an article about it. The US OHIO Class ballistic missile submarine carries 24 Trident C4 missiles with multiple warheads capable of multiple targeting after launch. Since there are 18 of the Trident SSBNs, with only one having the capability of destroying a country like Iraq, should we be so worried about them producing fuel and weapons grade nuclear material? I know there is a problem with proliferation in unstable countries and even nuclear material getting into terrorrist hands, which is going to happen. Should we adopt the attitude of what and when we are prepared to do if we feel threatened?

I know we have allies that we are bound to help if they are attacked and we should, but shouldn't those same countries prepare themselves the way we have? Are we willing to let them be hit first before we react against the attackers?

Most of you Navy people know how destructive a Trident is and most of you are probably aware that retaliation using Trident SSBNs would be a horror to behold. I was just wondering if anyone else has given thought as to when and how hard we should retaliate if the US or, say Israel is nuked.

OHIO CLASS CHARACTERISTICS

• Displacement: 18,700 tons submerged
• Length: 560 feet
• Beam: 42 feet
• Draft: 36 feet
• Speed: 25+ knots submerged
• Depth: Greater than 800 feet
• Complement: 154 (approx.)
• Vertical Tubes: 24 TRIDENT C-4 (or D-5) Missile Tubes
• Horizontal Tubes: Four 21-inch Tubes
• NOTE: The Ohio and three other Ohio Class "Boomers" are being converted to SSGNs, submarines that launch Tomahawk and a number of different vertical launch weapons or perhaps even UUVs.

LOS ANGELES (SSN 688 CLASS
This is the most numerous class of nuclear-powered submarines built by any nation, and will form the backbone of the U.S. attack submarine force well into the 21st century. The LOS ANGELES Class submarines are fast and carry 25 torpedo-tube launched weapons. The last 31 hulls of the class have 12 vertical launch tubes for the Tomahawk cruise missile. Of these, the final 23 hulls, referred to as "688I" (for improved), are quieter, incorporate an advanced combat system, and are configured for under-ice operations in that their forward diving planes have been moved from the sail structure to the bow and the sail has been strengthened for breaking through ice.

Displacement: 6,927 tons submerged
Length: 360 feet
Beam: 33 feet
Draft: 32 feet
Speed: 25+ knots submerged
Depth: Greater than 800 feet
Complement: 140 (approx.)
Vertical Tubes: 12 Vertical Launch System Tubes (on SSNs 719-725 and 750-773)
Horizontal Tubes: Four 21-inch Tubes

TRIDENT I (C-4) SLBM
The C-4 missile was first deployed in 1979. The TRIDENT C-4 is a long-range, multiple-warhead missile that is launched from submerged submarines. Depending upon the number of warheads carried, it has almost double the range of the previous Poseidon missile. The C-4 is a three-stage solid fuel missile which is powered only during the initial phases of flight. When the third stage is exhausted the missile follows a ballistic trajectory. As the first stage motor ignites an aerospike extends from the missile's nose, cutting the friction of the air flowing past the missile, thus extending its range. The third stage includes a bus that aims and dispenses the warheads at separate targets.
The C-4 missile was first deployed in 1979. The TRIDENT C-4 is a long-range, multiple-warhead missile that is launched from submerged submarines. Depending upon the number of warheads carried, it has almost double the range of the previous Poseidon missile. The C-4 is a three-stage solid fuel missile which is powered only during the initial phases of flight. When the third stage is exhausted the missile follows a ballistic trajectory. As the first stage motor ignites an aerospike extends from the missile's nose, cutting the friction of the air flowing past the missile, thus extending its range. The third stage includes a bus that aims and dispenses the warheads at separate targets.

The TRIDENT II (D-5) submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) is the latest in a long line of U.S. Navy SLBMs that began with the famous

Polaris A-1 missile that first went to sea on a strategic deterrent patrol in 1960. The D-5 is the immediate successor to the TRIDENT C-4 missile, with the newer weapon having an improved payload as well as greatly increased accuracy. It is fitted in the ninth and later OHIO Class submarines. The missile became operational with the deployment of the USS TENNESSEE (SSBN 734) on deterrent patrol in March 1990. Like the TRIDENT C-4, the D-5 is a three-stage, solid propellant missile, carrying a MIRVed warhead with separate weapons that can be targeted against specific targets.

This doesn't count all the Fast Attack submarines which are nuclear weapon capable.

 

[Senior Chief]

I can neither confirm nor deny the presence of nuclear weapons on any vessel in the U.S. Navy.

 

[Missileer]

Good answer. With that much firepower, Boomers don't really need nukes to put a world of hurt on any land based target.

Here is the Walter Williams column on this subject if anyone is interested.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/WalterEWilliams/2006/08/23/will_the_west_defend_itself

Quote from article:
"Does the United States have the power to eliminate terrorists and the states that support them? In terms of capacity, as opposed to will, the answer is a clear yes.
Think about it. Currently, the U.S. has an arsenal of 18 Ohio class submarines. Just one submarine is loaded with 24 Trident nuclear missiles. Each Trident missile has eight nuclear warheads capable of being independently targeted. That means the U.S. alone has the capacity to wipe out Iran, Syria or any other state that supports terrorist groups or engages in terrorism -- without risking the life of a single soldier."

Quote:
"Today's Americans are vastly different from those of my generation who fought the life-and-death struggle of World War II. Any attempt to annihilate our Middle East enemies would create all sorts of handwringing about the innocent lives lost, so-called collateral damage. Such an argument would have fallen on deaf ears during World War II when we firebombed cities in Germany and Japan. The loss of lives through saturation bombing far exceeded those lost through the dropping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki."

Quote:
"We might also note that the occupation of Germany and Japan didn't pose the occupation problems we face in Iraq. The reason is we completely demoralized our enemies, leaving them with neither the will nor the means to resist."

Quote:
"Our adversaries in the Middle East have advantages that the axis powers didn't have -- the Western press and public opinion. We've seen widespread condemnation of alleged atrocities and prisoner mistreatment by the U.S., but how much media condemnation have you seen of beheadings and other gross atrocities by Islamists?
Terrorists must be pleased by statements of some members of Congress, such as those by Rep. John Dingell, D-Mich., who recently said, "I don't take sides for or against Hezbollah." Hezbollah, backed by Iran, is responsible for the 1983 bombing of Beirut barracks killing 241 U.S. service members."

Quote:
"I'm not suggesting that we rush to use our nuclear capacity to crush states that support terrorism. I'm sure there are other less drastic military options. What I am suggesting is that I know of no instances where appeasement, such as the current Western modus operandi, has borne fruit.

What Europeans say about what should be done about terrorist states should fall on deaf ears. Their history of weakness and cowardice during the 1930s goes a long way toward accounting for the 60 million lives lost during World War II. During the mid-'30s, when Hitler started violating the arms limitations of the Versailles Treaty, France and Britain alone could have handily defeated him, but they pursued the appeasement route.

Anyone who thinks current Western appeasement efforts will get Iran to end its nuclear weapons program and end its desire to eliminate Israel is dumber than dumb. Appeasement will strengthen Iran's hand, and it looks as if the West, including the United States, is willing to be complicit in that strengthening."