Firearms Possession discussion (in response to yet another US shooting)

Believe me I'd throw a f***ing party if someone told me I could go active and reclass Infantry.
do not be stupid, get your head out of your butt. If you are allowed to go active go for something you can USE on the outside. Combat arms truely are *exciting* when *using* the skills..... in garrison they are the most BORING. Do you think they play Army all the time? They do post details, clean weapons and clean them a few hundred more times. And the real chincher? Look at the *Help wanted* ads - do you find any for an expert rucksack packer?
John Wayne lied, there is no glamor, pretty girls or glory in war. Just dirt, boredom, interlaced with periods of fear mixed with high amounts of adrenaline thrown into the mix.... oh, did I say extreme sorrow?
Noper kid, be smart, find something you can use to make a living..... Infantry, Armor, Recon ain't it.
 
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do not be stupid, get your head out of your butt. If you are allowed to go active go for something you can USE on the outside. Combat arms truely are *exciting* when *using* the skills..... in garrison they are the most BORING. Do you think they play Army all the time? They do post details, clean weapons and clean them a few hundred more times. And the real chincher? Look at the *Help wanted* ads - do you find any for an expert rucksack packer?
John Wayne lied, there is no glamor, pretty girls or glory in war. Just dirt, boredom, interlaced with periods of fear mixed with high amounts of adrenaline thrown into the mix.... oh, did I say extreme sorrow?
Noper kid, be smart, find something you can use to make a living..... Infantry, Armor, Recon ain't it.

I wasn't looking for glory or girls, or any of that stuff. My current MOS already gives me plenty of choices for the civilian world. I understand that 80% of what you do is wait around for nothing, but the same is true of most other MOSes.

However I do want to do infantry because they are the best, and I want to make a career of the Army anyways, so why not do so in the fastest promoting MOS? Yes I know know its a rough, and most of the time boring life, but it's a helluva lot better than being freaking combat janitor in the reserves. I have no problem whatsoever with doing PT, cleaning weapons or going on FTX.

I went to basic at Fort Benning, I know what I'm getting myself into seeing as our CO in BCT pretty much ran it the same way they would the first 10 weeks of Infantry OSUT. It sucks, it's boring I get it, but hey I want to do it, and if anything if I go active to some other MOS it'll be just as boring if not even more so.
 
Things are changing for the better. ;)

They might be changing for the better, but tell me how a fragile 75 year old can defend himself against an 18 year old yobo when items like tasers, stun guns and pepper sprays are banned?

Its about time the powers that be realised that the police cannot always be there to protect the innocent and that people are in fact more then responsible to own items such as tasers, stun guns and pepper sprays. Of course the argument will be "Yea but if things were easily available, criminals can get them too." SMG's are illegal, yet criminals get hold of them.

I actually meant, they would be nicked or stolen.
But there would probably be some idiot. Who would steal some rounds as well.
The difference between Brits and yanks. Is,WE know we can't be trusted with guns.

Speak for yourself. I was a RFD in UK, a registered firearms dealer working out of home. In a safe I had upwards of 15 to 20 AK47's, FN FAL's, as well as semi auto pistols and revolvers along with around 30,000 rounds of ammunition of all types. There was never a problem. Of course my home was alarmed and the room where the safe was situated, heavily reinforced. As I said, "People are more responsible then you give them credit for." Or is this in Old Bill training, "Everyone is an idiot except us."

The vast majority can be, but not all of them. Sadly.

Quite frankly, I've met marines/soldiers/officers that I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw them. In fact, I wouldn't trust them with a water pistol.

In that case there must be a problem with selection and or training. I too have met officers who are too stupid for words, one particular TA Major I deeply regret not putting in a "Redress" against him.

South African Commando's,may well have had a need for a weapon.
We Brits would rather go down the pub!.

So would the South Africans rather go down the pub.
 
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They might be changing for the better, but tell me how a fragile 75 year old can defend himself against an 18 year old yobo when items like tasers, stun guns and pepper sprays are banned?

You're assuming that the fragile 75 year old actaully wants a firearm in his house. What if he doesn't want one? Not everyone has a fascination with firearms.

Its about time the powers that be realised that the police cannot always be there to protect the innocent and that people are in fact more then responsible to own items such as tasers, stun guns and pepper sprays. Of course the argument will be "Yea but if things were easily available, criminals can get them too." SMG's are illegal, yet criminals get hold of them.

As a police officer who deals with the dregs of society (for the past 6 years), I'd have to disagree. Some people are responsible enough.

Speak for yourself. I was a RFD in UK, a registered firearms dealer working out of home. In a safe I had upwards of 15 to 20 AK47's, FN FAL's, as well as semi auto pistols and revolvers along with around 30,000 rounds of ammunition of all types. There was never a problem. Of course my home was alarmed and the room where the safe was situated, heavily reinforced. As I said, "People are more responsible then you give them credit for." Or is this in Old Bill training, "Everyone is an idiot except us."

Tankboy didn't say that no one could be trusted? I don't doubt the fact that you were responsible. However, not everyone is like you.

In that case there must be a problem with selection and or training. I too have met officers who are too stupid for words, one particular TA Major I deeply regret not putting in a "Redress" against him.

No selection or tranining process is 100%, whether thats in a military or a civilian environment. There are always a few that slip through the net. Happens in all careers. Plenty of Officers/Marines/Soldiers etc are discharged every year.
 
You're assuming that the fragile 75 year old actaully wants a firearm in his house. What if he doesn't want one? Not everyone has a fascination with firearms.
.
That's called freedom of choice. Gun controll laws ends freedom of choice. I suspect that gun laws are more about creating govt dependancy & controll than anything else.
 
That's called freedom of choice. Gun controll laws ends freedom of choice. I suspect that gun laws are more about creating govt dependancy & controll than anything else.

I don't hear many (if any) people in the UK calling for the gun laws to be relaxed....
 
Ha, maybe so, as much as I'd hate to admit the US Army has gone soft, The only soldiers that are disciplined or well trained enough are combat arms. Combat support is a joke, along with the rest of the other MOS's in the army. :bang:

Perhaps I'm just squared away, and deem it necessary to stay proficient, no the better term would be progress in marksmanship? There are many reservists that shoot just fine without owning their own weapons, I'm just the sort that wants to go the extra mile and get better at things. :m16shoot:

Your ignorance is shining through. You`re a reservist, and a new one at that, and you feel you`re qualified to give an assessment of the Army?
 
How come Capt Frogman has a pretty green name on the board and I have a shitty brown one? Discrimination 'cos I'm Australian, or what? I WANT!!

My name is in lovely red letters. :p

Because I'm important! :D

Yeah, he's a leg-end in his own lunch time. ;)

I don't hear many (if any) people in the UK calling for the gun laws to be relaxed....

I live in the county where the last armed massacre took place in this country, I certainly don't want to see every Tom, Dick and Harry with a gun!!!
 
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My name is in lovely red letters. :p

Red means danger, which is rather appropriate. :D

Yeah, he's a leg-end in his own lunch time. ;)

There's really no need to feel threatened by me! ;) :p

I live in the county where the last armed massacre took place in this country, I certainly don't want to see every Tom, Dick and Harry with a gun!!!

Indeed. Even us across the border were put on standby for that incident. I don't a repeat of it either.
 
I don't hear many (if any) people in the UK calling for the gun laws to be relaxed....

Actually there has been, the British Olympic Association, the Shooters Rights Association to name but two.

I remember clearly the front page of the Sun newspaper, there was a bloke in cammo, with a balaclava, an AK47, a Beretta and a belt of GPMG ammunition around his neck. They forgot to mention that the GPMG belt ammunition does not fit a 7.62x39 AK47

PISTOL shooters can recall precisely where they were and what they were doing when the first news bulletins came through of the Dunblane massacre on March 13, 1996. They went through phases of shock and horror, then bafflement, then rage. Rage that a man with a gun licence - one of their own - could have shot dead 16 children and their teacher.

Then the mood changed and competitive shooters, many of them reliable winners of medals for Britain in international meetings, found they were the target of (typical) tabloid newspaper attacks on Britain's "gun culture".

Even when it became clear that Thomas Hamilton had acquired his guns because of imperfect enforcement of gun laws, rather than inadequate legislation, the assault on legal gun ownership was redoubled. In the final inglorious months of the Major administration and with an election looming, ministers buckled in the face of demands that "something must be done".

Hamilton, a maniac with paedophile tendencies who lied to the police to get his gun certificate, was hung around the neck of Britain's 54,000 pistol owners, and historic rights to gun ownership were ripped up.

"When Dunblane happened, you just could not argue the case," says Michael Gault, a maintenance engineer with the RAF who is also one of Britain's finest shooters. "In truth we were sucker-punched: we couldn't argue with the parents over the bodies of those children."

The 1920 firearms act was rammed through parliament because of the recent revolution in Russia, parliament was terrified of the same happening in Britain.
 
You're assuming that the fragile 75 year old actaully wants a firearm in his house. What if he doesn't want one? Not everyone has a fascination with firearms.

I'm not assuming anything, everyone should have a choice whether its a firearm or pepper spray to defend themselves.

As a police officer who deals with the dregs of society (for the past 6 years), I'd have to disagree. Some people are responsible enough.

I don't envy your job at all and I have no doubt you are very good at it. I have no doubt you have come across and against the dregs of society, but that doesn't mean everyone is like that, the vast majority of people are completely law abiding and as it happens so are (or were before their guns were banned) firearm owners totally law abiding. I as a club official in UK reported someone to the police, who wanted to become a club member just to get a firearm licence.

tankboy didn't say that no one could be trusted? I don't doubt the fact that you were responsible. However, not everyone is like you.

Actually he did when he said "WE know we can't be trusted with guns."

You might be pleasantly surprised just how many people are extremely responsible. I am not the exception, every member of the club I was in was just as responsible as I was, you will find 99.999999999999999999% of all gun clubs in the UK are like that. They are self policing and very strict on membership. If I remember correctly the club where Thomas Hamilton was a member warned the police that he should have his firearm certificate pulled. It wasn't.

No selection or tranining process is 100%, whether thats in a military or a civilian environment. There are always a few that slip through the net. Happens in all careers. Plenty of Officers/Marines/Soldiers etc are discharged every year.

I have to agree with you on that one, when I was in the TA, someone joined and was found later to have a criminal record for "armed robbery." He was discharged immediately.
 
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The 1920 firearms act was rammed through parliament because of the recent revolution in Russia, parliament was terrified of the same happening in Britain.
This seems to be the cause of gun controll in Europe, politicians worried about the masses tossing their asses out of Office, rather than a real crime problem
 
I'm not assuming anything, everyone should have a choice whether its a firearm or pepper spray to defend themselves.

I believe everyone should be able to defend themselves, their family and their possessions. I don't believe that a firearm is the answer, though.


I don't envy your job at all and I have no doubt you are very good at it. I have no doubt you have come across and against the dregs of society, but that doesn't mean everyone is like that, the vast majority of people are completely law abiding and as it happens so are (or were before their guns were banned) firearm owners totally law abiding. I as a club official in UK reported someone to the police, who wanted to become a club member just to get a firearm licence.

Yes, the majority of people are law abiding.

Tbh I would expect firearms licence holders to be law abiding, given the extensive checks that are done on them before they get their licence. I was talking about the population as a whole.

Why are mass shootings so rare in the UK?

You might be pleasantly surprised just how many people are extremely responsible. I am not the exception, every member of the club I was in was just as responsible as I was, you will find 99.999999999999999999% of all gun clubs in the UK are like that. They are self policing and very strict on membership. If I remember correctly the club where Thomas Hamilton was a member warned the police that he should have his firearm certificate pulled. It wasn't.

Again, I would hope everyone in a gun club is extremely responsible because they wouldn't be in the club if they weren't? I'm sure you're aware of the extensive checks carried out on said members and the restrictions on who can be granted a licence?

The 3 people who commited the only 3 (recent) mass shooting (Dunblane, Hungerford and Cumbria) were all gun licence holders....
 
This seems to be the cause of gun controll in Europe, politicians worried about the masses tossing their asses out of Office, rather than a real crime problem

Had the opposite happened, then Europe would now be like the US with mass shootings every few months?
 
Your ignorance is shining through. You`re a reservist, and a new one at that, and you feel you`re qualified to give an assessment of the Army?

Oh I love how being reservist means you don't know about the army. Guess what, I went through the SAME IET as everyone else and trust me from what I've seen from people who went to FLW or Ft Sill, they lack discipline and still are individuals. **** my class marched right by FLW basic when I was in AIT, I could see with my own eyes that their training was sub-standard compared to what I got at the MCoE. The fact that you get Vietnam era gear at FLW amongst other things is just astounding. Then there is the utter chaos that is caused by new EO policies. People friggin act like they're in high school and file complaints for stupid crap, or to get other privates in trouble.

Oh yea, the old generation from the 90s up till around 05, they're tough, they are the old army even in combat support, however I was referring to the newest generation of privates that come out of IET. You don't have to take my word for it, why? Because the old generation of the army, MY NCOs that went through a lot tougher IET, said the same **** about this new politically correct US Army.
 
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I wasn't looking for glory or girls, or any of that stuff. My current MOS already gives me plenty of choices for the civilian world. I understand that 80% of what you do is wait around for nothing, but the same is true of most other MOSes.

However I do want to do infantry because they are the best, and I want to make a career of the Army anyways, so why not do so in the fastest promoting MOS? Yes I know know its a rough, and most of the time boring life, but it's a helluva lot better than being freaking combat janitor in the reserves. I have no problem whatsoever with doing PT, cleaning weapons or going on FTX.

I went to basic at Fort Benning, I know what I'm getting myself into seeing as our CO in BCT pretty much ran it the same way they would the first 10 weeks of Infantry OSUT. It sucks, it's boring I get it, but hey I want to do it, and if anything if I go active to some other MOS it'll be just as boring if not even more so.
well then if you are set on going Infantry and being the best you cannot be a {{{ ralph, spit, gag, barf }}} *LEG*. Get your Ranger Tab, Wings, try for SF.......... those tabs will help your career immensely. To belong to such a community will change you in ways you never dreamed.

Good luck.
 
Had the opposite happened, then Europe would now be like the US with mass shootings every few months?

Yes but it is important that your right to shoot and be shot is upheld otherwise you are not really free, remember the minute the 2nd Amendment goes the country will become a dictatorship and probably invaded by England to get its territories back.
 
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