Could Germany have defeated the US?

[Damien435]

This is a what if sort of question, if Hitler never invaded the Soviet Union and the UK fell, could Germany have defeated the US? Since Germany and the USSR had a NAP Germany would in all likelyhood be able to buy some materials from Russia. Please, five me you insight.

 

[godofthunder9010]

My best guess at this is that Germany would do what it did repeatedly throughout the war - against all odds, do what is logically impossible. The economy of Europe with superior German equipment being produced vs the ridiculous mass production of the USA. Frankly, I don't know how it can't end in a stalemate, but somehow I think that the Germans would probably come up with something. Very intersting to think about.

 

[Doppleganger]

Very hard to call. My guess is that there would be some kind of limited nuclear exchange but that an uneasy stalemate would eventually be called. You would then end up with a 'Cold War' scenario except the Superpowers would be Germany and the USA.

But of course Germany and the Soviet Union would have to settle things sooner or later. That is one war which is IMO unavoidable given the completely opposite ideologoies and the personalities of both Hitler and Stalin.

 

[yurry]

I agree - SU would get involved sooner or later!

And if UK fell the US would probably get involved before that happened so they would be on war production if the invasion had happened.

If thi would be, then the Germans would get knocked out on the beachheads. Also - how would Germany initialy deal with US airpower? Carriers at that time were taught to be inferior to ground-based airpower.

 

[silent driller]

Carriers at that time were taught to be inferior to ground-based airpower.

Pilots that flew off carriers were also taught to be more fierce when they fought because if they lost the ship, they were screwed. Land based fighters always had something to return to, even if that something was full of craters.

 

[yurry]

Land based fighters always had something to return to, even if that something was full of craters.

My point exactly - while a carrier would take years to replace an airfield would be repaired in days. Thanks silent driller :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[Damien435]

Lets not forget that Canada would make a nice backdoor enterance into the US, Germay could in all likelyhood invade Canada with little resistance and then move towards the US.

 

[SHERMAN]

I just dont see how the Germans could maintain their supply lines, they couldent do it in the eastern front on land, so how would that work on the ocean?!

 

[GuyontheRight]

This all depends on US resolve, and how many casulties that generation was willing to accept to cast that madman from the earth. Personally, If this situation ever came to past, I think Hitler would be assassinated and the Cold War develops around a Fascist/Democracy against Soviet mentality.

 

[Lil Hulk 1988]

Long drawn out mess....

Eventually the US would prevail, but it would take forever, the reason, logistics. No doubt the German Infantry was the finest in the war, but that means nothing without the ability to get supplies to the front. Hitting Canada first is a good strategy, but are you able to get the Canadians to make war goods for the occupiers? Those oceans make it tough. Remember, the Germans made an offer to the Mexicans in WWI to invade and fight, they could have probably asked for the same resolve and get invited to Mexico, but then you would have to slog your way all the way to the MidWest to get to the war factories and natural resources, just not possible. Artillery is the King, Infantry the Queen, but logistics is what allows them to claim their titles....

BTW: GodOfThunder - One of the reasons for the horrible German logistics in WWII had to do with the proliferation of so many different types of equipment WITHOUT much interchangability, makes it near impossible to maintain a good supply source when you can't salvage and use parts inbetween weapons systems.

 

[craig]

I think it would have been a stale mate neither counrty could have mantained an invasion of the other for any period of time. Maybe the A bomb may have turned it in the US favour but they still had to get it there.

 

[GuyontheRight]

I think it really depends on what Hitler would of had the Kriegsmarine do, and if that service would have replaced the Army as Germany's most dominant force.

 

[Big_Z]

I believe it would be a stalemate. America wouldn't have the training to defeat germany in Europe and the Americans would fight like maniacs to keep the Germans off American shores. Having a million+ men on our east coast would be pretty much impossible to break through.

 

[godofthunder9010]

One thing is for certain, whoever you feel wins is going to have to make the most ambitious amphibious assault immaginable -- one to make D-Day look like a children's training exercise. I also believe that the USA would see the potential of a Canada landing site and would take steps to stop it.

 

[Damien435]

Either way it would take years before Hitler could reasonably plan an assault on the US, without the Soviet Union Hitler could not hope to match America's industrial output within 20 years, and even then it would take years to rebuild the damaged factories, and Britain would definetly have started using gas on the Germans when they invaded and the British to would have fought like maniacs, while Britain is a small country they would have fought like hell to defend every inch of it, millions of Germans would probably be wounded in an invasion with the death toll in the Hundreds of Thousands. And Hitler would need to build the Carriers to use in an invasion of the US, along with the transports, battleships and destroyers for coastal bombardment, and a true carrier borne plane would need to be developed. So either way it would be years before Germany could hope to invade the US, something like 1955 at the earliest, and that is assuming that we were not already in a war with Japan, which was doomed to happen after we cut off their oil supplies, we may have been able to defeat them before Germany was able to defeat the UK and then focus it's attention on the US.

No, in my opinion the Germans would get their asses handed to them on a silver platter, and once we defeated the Kriegsmarine it would only be a matter of time before we planned an assault in Europe, starting with Britain, and then France, Britain, and the rest of Europe would truly have to admit that we pulled their asses out of the fire, unlike now where we can speculate that Germany might have been defeated without the US, which is in my opinion BS, the only reason the Soviets won the race to Berlin was because Hitler pulled troops off of the eastern front to face the allies in France, his theory being that it was 2500 miles to Moscow and only 500 miles to Paris, he would last longer by fighting the Allies in France with heavier forces than by fighting the Soviets with a majority of his military.

 

[Young Winston]

No, the Atlantic Ocean would have saved the US's bacon.

The Germans in 1940 were incapable of breaching the English Channel (and weren't really interested either!) let alone the Atlantic.

If the US met the Germans in a fair and square land war in 1940/1941 it would have been embarrassing for the US of A. Fortunately for the world the US had until 1943 to tackle them.

 

[godofthunder9010]

Of course the Atlantic Ocean is the problem no matter which way it goes. Its one thing to do Operation Overlord pushing off from Britain. Moving the necessary invasion fleet across an entire ocean? That's why I'm leaning toward stalemate, the capacity to launch that level of an invasion force over such an expanse of water is mindboggling. The US would not have a decent opportunity to adapt to the German Blitzkrieg, the Germans couldn't possibly keep up with the US wartime production. Germany would most certainly take Africa, there'd really be no stopping that. If the US is at war with Japan at the time (very likely), it would certainly divert some of that overwhelming wartime production ... it just isn't enough to win for Germany.

What happens with the USSR is the deciding factor, I'm convinced of that.

 

[SHERMAN]

Like I said you just cant land an invasion force like trhat. No side would be able to win.

 

[Mark Conley]

gee..we might need a clarification of the time period for this answer...

I am assuming that the time period is 1940...right after the fall of france, the english have just left dunkirk..and the majority of the US Fleet is still intact at Pearl Harbor with no japaneese involvment...is that correct Damien?

IF so...germany still has a sizable fleet...submarines, merchant raiders, battleships and such.

It has a still sizable fleet of liners that could be converted for troop usage and transport.

And there is still a sizable bundist movement in the US to act as a fifth colum in the US.

And yes, it has a non agression pact (NAP) with russia...which also has a sizable fifth colum in the US.

And the Japanesse aint on the scene...yet.

Good question. confirm the above conditions please.

 

[Damien435]

During WWII they often said that Berlin was the most heavily defended place on earth, well if Germay overran Britain I believe that the Eastern Seaboard would become the most heavily defended place on earth.