Bush lobbies for surveillance law (AP)

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AP - President Bush on Monday lobbied again for an intelligence law allowing government eavesdropping on phone calls and e-mails, as the tone of the dispute between the White House and Congress over terrorist surveillance grew increasingly sharp.



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I personally have nothing to hide so if they wanna listen in thats fine, in the end we have no real say so in when and where they do anyway....
 
The law is a terrible idea, we have satellites that can read license plate numbers, so most terrorists are smart enough to know NEVER to use a telephone more than once, and many don't use phones at all. These people are not as dumb as you think they might be.

Furthermore it has stated over and over again the Feds have the right to wiretap with a warrant for 72 hours, that FISA has the ability to hand warrants within an hour. So there is absolutely no reason for this power, and in fact the FBI several years ago told the Justice Department that they didn't want this this first time the law was passed.

So why are the pushing the Bushies pushing this survaillance law, a law that provides for unlimited surveillance without supervision? Because it has NOTHING to do with terrorism it has to do of keeping an eye on society.

And before you all scoff, Remember 4 years ago, Tom Delay tracked the private aircraft of congressional Democrats using secret FAA transponder codes. So there is already precedent about government authorities using their surveillance powers to spy on ordinary Americans.

You can be sure its not the first time either...
 
Thats why I honestly believe law or no law they will do what they want and there isnt anything we can do because we will never know its happening.
 
I don't know what's worse, that they're removing all the protections, or that people don't care.
 

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major liability said:
I don't know what's worse, that they're removing all the protections, or that people don't care.
Click to expand...

Very astute comment IMO.

Next they'll want to bug everyone's house..... Don't laugh, they already have the capability for audio feed, even when your phone is on the hook. Read "Spycatcher" by Peter Wright.
 
How will they handle all that information though?
They want to use it to listen in on suspects... heck why not?
Also remember that when people want to build a foot path, they have to request a 4 lane interstate highway. After the opponents have stepped on, ripped and pissed all over your proposal, you will have the foot path that you wanted in the first place.
How to Fight Bureaucracy (Article 104 Section 53)
 
I am with TI on this. This would also open the door to catch those criminals that would otherwise be left unnoticed unless specifically sought (think Child Pronography, Predators etc).

I feel that yes, it could lead to someone maybe possibly finding out that someone is a closet homosexual, or perhaps someone watches I Love Lucy reruns on their computer.

Then again I am one of those people that have nothing whatsoever to hide from anyone and don't care if the world watches my life on a TV screen. My wife might...I don't *grin*.
 
For the most part I agree with the philosophy that "I don't care I have nothing to hide" because as the situation stands I don't have anything to hide so if people want to be bored senseless listening to my phone calls well good for them and hell if it catches a few drug dealers and terrorists even better.

However where does it stop?

Am I going find a speeding ticket in the mail for telling a friend that I got the new car to 100mph on a test drive or arrested because I don't support my governments stance on something and we all know thats the equivalent of supporting terrorism after all it is undermining their efforts to keep us safe.

I am not certain I see a point in giving away my freedoms to defeat people who want to take my freedoms away, the end is the same in either case.

It sort of reminds me a lot of this:

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller
 
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MontyB said:
For the most part I agree with the philosophy that "I don't care I have nothing to hide" because as the situation stands I don't have anything to hide so if people want to be bored senseless listening to my phone calls well good for them and hell if it catches a few drug dealers and terrorists even better.

However where does it stop?

Am I going find a speeding ticket in the mail for telling a friend that I got the new car to 100mph on a test drive or arrested because I don't support my governments stance on something and we all know thats the equivalent of supporting terrorism after all it is undermining their efforts to keep us safe.

I am not certain I see a point in giving away my freedoms to defeat people who want to take my freedoms away, the end is the same in either case.

It sort of reminds me a lot of this:

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller
Click to expand...

I understand and can even somewhat agree with your point of view.

I look at this as something akin to standing in a large room full of people and picking out tidbits of conversations (presuming you can hear all of them) and hearing keywords or phrases and then focusing on that conversation.
 
How in the world did I let this thread slip past my radar :)

Theres a really big difference between what our govt wants to do and what really is watching for terrorists, here in Va beach they have cameras at almost every intersection always watching to see what your doing, who you are and why your on the road your on.
I too have nothing at all to hide from anyone, but I kinda think its an invasion of privacy to read my emails to people since all they are is friendly conversation, if they listen to my cell phone calls, they're gonna wonder how 1 person does it all.
 
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Marinerhodes said:
I understand and can even somewhat agree with your point of view.

I look at this as something akin to standing in a large room full of people and picking out tidbits of conversations (presuming you can hear all of them) and hearing keywords or phrases and then focusing on that conversation.
Click to expand...

I will guarantee you that given an ordinary tape recording of the conversations of a room full of people each individual conversation can be separated and heard clearly using good off the shelf audio equipment.
 
Anyway, the truth of the matter is more likely that they are doing it anyway, all GW wants is to make it legal.

And, No! I don't agree with it, the anarchist within me objects.

Anyone without a streak of anarchist in them, is no more than a puppet and about as useful to a progressive society.
 
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