a commentary by Doc.S

[Doc.S]

This is fftopic: But I get :cen: so I use my right to speak up once and for all in this president issue. Sorry for this one


G.Bush or Mr. Kerry

Well If I was an american I would wote for G.Bush again because even if Democrats and Republicans have different names one thing is for sure and that is something all politicians have in common. They serve themselfe - They serve the Military Industrial Complex and they serve the different financial interests, and so on.

As a last point they try to serve the simple citizen. The different countries financial interests is the first thing they are protecting. A man should never believe that they want to protect the simple man. They want to be the peoples president or primeminister but often they have nothing in common with the citizens if you scratch a bit on their surface.

G.Bush have one thing that I don´t know if I should admire or fear. He is honest on the point that he want to stop this terrorists groups that are spread all over the world at any cost. Well ---- Nothing is worth anything if this Mr. Kerry comes to office and begin to coddle with these terrorists that too many leaders allready have done. Okey the country need some help too. But If you have start a thing like this.

The last politician I would like to see on the worlds most powerfull post the President of the United States Of America is this Kerry person. I don´t think that the US can afford a financial titmouse in the office when all fanatical madman in the world look for a titmouse to play with. All americans would suffer greatly and as they said " Americans can die in great numbers in the US if these evil forces take the command".

I don´t like Rummsfeld or this General John Ashcroft with friends that are taking more and more libertys from the american people in the name of security. Patriot act 1 and soon 2 will effect all people around the world and I want my freedom but not at the cost of a group fanatical illiterate Islam sharia law fighters. I want to live in freedom but not in a "western sharia law police state."

And not in a prison guarded by UN troops or foreign troops. It is time for the Industrial Complex and the financial intrests to pay there debts to the one they have feed and played with in this years after WW2. It is not our boys or girls from the simple people that shall pay this prise with their freedom or their libertys or their lifes. I think people around the globe should turn there eyes towards the real evil in this world. The ones that have feed this evil and has nurced it for centuries for the sake of their own wicked interests.

And one more thing- I don´t like Michael Moores Fahrenheit 9-11 movie that is a highly critical look at President George W. Bush okay G.Bush is not an saint. But any smart guy would understand that W.Bush is only a puppit as all other presidents after J.F.K. The globalists and the Industrial Complex are the ones who realy rule our countries now. That is a fact.

Don´t make a monky of a tiger because the real assholes are in the background and have always been there. So this hippie movement or what they are, UN and human rights watchers should take there complains to the real evil in this world insted of harassing G.Bush.

I dont think anyone of them have read the history. Maby the history of there sectleaders but not the real history thats for sure. People like Michael Moore that seems to enjoy to attack G.Bush have never ,unlike his counterpart, had a hard life thats for sure.

Cheers:
Doc.S

:viking:

 

[Italian Guy]

Michael Moore is the typical real fat and phoney-poor alternative who tries to hide the fact that he's sitting on millions of dollar just by attacking the President.

As far as the ' real powers such as the Industrial complex ', well that is pretty much what Ike said when he left the White House. But I dont know what he meant, I dont know whether the problem is still there or not, I dont know to what extent that should still be true.

 

[Doc.S]

You are so right Italian guy

Well old Ike did something that made a great impression on the world community not only the USA. That was something that forced these industrial complex to step back in to the dark for some time. Now don´t get me wrong here. This complex that Ike talked about have not only done bad things. But after 1963 something begun to go wrong and today there are alot of things that is not what it should be. I have read a lot of social sciense "S = social sciense nerd" even as an leisure pursuit.

And if you want evidence for my statements in this matter. Well then you have to begin a great deal of fotwork. This industrial complex that I am speeking of is a whole world in the world that you are alowed to follow on the general political agenda and what they want the public opinion to know about. The net is formed as cells and from these cells you got hundreds and hundreds of different couriers, dummy fronts that are linked togheter and it would take me for sure an answer on this one that would be 10 hours of reading just to scratch on the surface.

A common citizen do not have the time or the resources to get in to all these information that finaly leads to that people talks about the real power of the world and the New World Order. You will find oil companys, gold companys different political leaders from different worlds all over the globe, you would find different groups from the big men and some women with a social background in the nobility, big banks and so on. A thing that they all have togheter is this high level of preparedness.

They control the media as they please and they control everything that you take for granted. It is not longer a world with kingdoms or republics, that is only a front for the general public. As I have understand this one is that even leaders of different countries all around the globe have different grades of insight in this global community movement that is runned by the elite over our heads. So I will not say to much more because there are forces out there that do not like people to talk about these kind of things. But if you want to know a thing.

Well you don´t have to look to hard. Look in to the mainstream media, newspapers and some books of different big men as senators and gouvernors and so on from the US and you will see that they like to brag between themselves and they are doing it so open that anyone that have some time over notice this without any problem. And the truth is sometimes not to fun. Well thats all I can say.

One thing is for sure that you don´t learn this things in the school or by listening on the radio so without to be stamped as an conspiracy guy ---- There is no one ---- It is there belive me :lol: My statements is a manifestation of questionable judgement I know but it´s a price I am villing to pay when I am driven by curiosity.

Cheers:
Doc.S

:viking:

 

[FlyingFrog]

Doc has very good points and you made them very clear

I just want to say:
Freedom is something RELATIVE, you can hardly say the people in a demmie country is really free while people in a commie country is completely not-free.

I think people should not fool themselves, simply face the cruel reality, only MONEY gives you "freedom", more money more freedom, no money then you are almost slave of your "limited capability environment".

Well, no matter Bush or Kerry, world goes on ..

You choose your president, then you take the resposibility of the consequence

Also, sad for those "free people" who choose A but B becomes president

 

[RnderSafe]

Also, sad for those "free people" who choose A but B becomes president

As far as I, and the facts can tell .. "B" was the elected (read: choosen president) of the free people. No little subtle digs will change that.

 

[Doc.S]

I will be totaly honest here --- I have never lived in a commie land or ever visited one, it would be great to visit one just for the heck of it. And the ciggars FlyingFrog you are right when it comes to the freedom issue. You are right Freedom is something RELATIVE. I agree with you 100% on this one. And when it comes to money. You are right there to but there are some other differances around here i sweden. You see I have always admire USA and the states for their freedoms.

They have a lot of things that we don´t have in sweden. I am living in a socialist country and that is not to far from a commie country when you look at the history. I have never been proud of my own country. But I am proud over my relatives that moved out from this country in the 1930s. Their children has children of there own and they have lived in US for there whole life and one thing is for sure. There is still a big differance between rich and poor in the US. There are problems over there that we don´t have in sweden. But there is as always a lot more you can do for your money. One thing you can´t do in sweden for an example.

Is to buy and vear a bulletproof west. Even if I sometimes when I work the graveyard shift would like one I can´t bear one. There are times when I would like to have a gun to protect myselfe and my family. But in sweden you wait for the police to show up. Often they are 80 kilometers away. Then all these taxes they take from me. 65% of my money is just taxes and then if you put in food there are 2% more. And when I go to the doctor I still pay 20 dollars for him to take a look, after that it is medicin often 75-150 dollars Now I know that there is a different system in the US.

My grandfathers brothers sons have ~50.000$~ for each member in there familys if they would be sick in Minnesota. Well all I do is paying taxes and they only get larger and larger and I am not realy paying for my selfe but for everyone in this country. Well it is a nice thought but now in the 20th century I think even socialist countries have to change because it is only getting more and more expensive to live up here. A pack of smoke cost 8 dollars+ and rising. So you see if you got a job and money, well no problem. You have a roof over your head - three meals of food a day and a weekend with maby a couple of bears. With a lone maby you have a caravanning holiday in the summer and 4 weeks vacation after five-day week work all year around untill you are 65. :roll:


In the US I would not have to stay without a job that for sure. But the problem is that I don´t have an insuranse of ~40.000$~ for me and my wife so I can´t move there for a while. Well but I know that we could live more free and not be in this rather irritating situation if we lived in US. So it is a big difference between sweds that have a steady job and a good bakground to stand on. But if you don´t have that and even with a good education you can´t get anywhere without money. A driver licens here for car cost 700-1000$ and that is something you have to have in sweden to get a job. To be honest I would rather live in Idaho or Minnesota then sweden

Cheers:
Doc.S

:viking:

 

[Mark Conley]

to sum it up..my freedom in the US satisfys me.

I like the fact that I can quit a job when ever I like too. Not that the consequences aren't there...they are. But the freedom to leave it beats anything.

I like my freedom to choose who I want to be. If I want to be poor, its okay...plenty of poor people around to talk to. If I want to be rich,,I can if I want to work for it. If i want to get rich selling gold colored baseballs...i'm free to do it.

I like my freedom to just get up and go to another part of the US as it suits me. No passport. No long complicated travel papers. Just my drivers license, a car, and money for my gas. If the car breaks down, why I even got the freedom to burn the SOB on the side of the road...as long as ill take the conseqenses for doing it. No one even questions me if I want to get up at three in the morning to go to Dennys for a snack.

I like the fact that I can tell people what I think of them, as longs as its not libel. I like the fact that I can get a trial in my country that might actually give me justice as well as keep the law. of course, justice is blind, but she is there.

I like the fact that if i can afford to eat it, I can.

Despite everything bad ever said about them, I like the IRS. Theres no greater leveler of people, poor or rich, than that damn tax man doing your audit. And I like the freedom of calling them federal blood sucking cockroaches as they take some of my money away...well it belongs to the government anyway. They made it, it was just mine to have for only a short while.... Nothing made by the lowest bidder is going to last long anyway.

I like the fact that I am at liberty to do any darn thing I want too...as long as no one is hurt, the taxes are paid, and the kids are fed. Despite everyones constant criticisms of our extravagant lifestyles, food consumption, and ill regard for the environment, I still think they are just full of :cen: ahem excrement.

I like what i got. and you know the best part? I have the freedom to defend it to the death if i have too. If some one trys to take it from me without my or my other fellow countrymen explicit permission, we will have the freedom to start over with a few less upsurpers, and a new slate.

 

[Italian Guy]

I see your point about the rest ( way too expensive welfare state, as its called, in Europe, I totally agree on that, but - hey don't shit yourself with things such as this:

They have a lot of things that we don´t have in sweden. I am living in a socialist country and that is not to far from a commie country when you look at the history.

Oh please get out! So you guys get shot for fiscal evasion in Sweden, do not enjoy the ownership of your house, need the gov't official permit to go from Stockholm to Goteborg and are not allowed to leave the country?
So you mean that you guys in Sweden can't write what you think on your newspapers? You can't criticize your government? You dont choose it?
Because THAT is living in a communist country, dude.

 

[Doc.S]

do not enjoy the ownership of your house, need the gov't official permit to go from Stockholm to Goteborg and are not allowed to leave the country? So you mean that you guys in Sweden can't write what you think on your newspapers? You can't criticize your government? You dont choose it?

Well sir everything is Relative in sweden - And no you can´t write the news as you please in sweden. All have to be political correct. And that is the truth. They have monopoly on the stations and the newspapers that reach the simple citizens. Evertything is controled by the state. And yes, no you cant be critical against the established parties and the gouvernment in sweden. The freedom of speach for an example that they have in US is nothing that exists in reality relative yes sir. It is just a "facade".

For an example one priest held a mass in the established official church where he was cirtical against homosexual. Well he is sent to prison for 4 months. I can still read the bibel sir. I know what is says. And yes socialist partys are a rest from the left-wing government or Communist Party. In sweden you can speak free with friends over the net. But you will not see any news that is of any importance at the front page in the newspapers.

What you find is principally local news, and after that there is soft soap operas and the compete in those TV shows. I have listen to different radiostations in the US shortwave and Genesis Comunications Network over the internet. I understand now what the socialist party in my country want to do. Keep me stupid. Well I would say that the Internet is a gift. I can only see my fellow citizens stay in a don´t know anything status.

Well it seems like they dont want to know anything anyway but still I understand why. Big things is happening outside this country but if you don´t know anything about the big world. Well then it is nothing to worry about right :? I am poor. Yes but I do know what is happening or will happen and I am not living in a Utopia. I am living in a state controlled socialist country where all freedoms are relative and where everything will be political correct. However.... People have begun to wake up. And that is something I can thank the Internet for. They are beginning to find out from the safe morning fog out in the reality but it will take time.

Still I want to get the hell out from here - You can still own your own land and your own house in US but here in sweden the telecom giants can take your land and put up big radio towers on your land without your permission. All in the name of infrastructure and the 3G net. In US I could theoretical blow a radio tower if they put it up on my land without my premission. There you still have freedom and I do think as Mark Conley Despite everyones constant criticisms of there extravagant lifestyles, food consumption, and ill regard for the environment, I still think they are just full of :cen: ahem excrement.

Cheers:
Doc.S

:viking:

 

[Doc.S]

need the gov't official permit to go from Stockholm to Goteborg and are not allowed to leave the country?

Sir I almost forgot -----

That is not true if you are poor or are unemployed --- I found out this summer that my trip to a friend in Falun under 3 days, that me and my wife have to report in to the employment service agency and tell them that where we were going - to a friend for a visit. They have my mobile phone number and so on. But If there would been an employer that want my services they should know where to find me. And because of this trip we took they want my wife to take away three days compensation from her unemployedfunds. The trip to Falun we shall pay out of one's own pocket and three days not home means three less days of money. That is how it works in sweden. My wifes job did go bankrupt late spring these year and "yes I realy love sweden." :cen:

3 days man..... 3 freaking days on a year.... Is that freedom?

Cheers:
Doc.S

:viking:

 

[FlyingFrog]

With all respect I read all of your posts, you stated very clear and the points are well based.

Although democracy and freedom are both relative concepts in practice, but they are way better than those in the so-called "communist countries".

As for China's case, we have a long way to go, towards a better society.
But I think we are very confident, and also patient, we will be there, towards a more free and equal society.

 

[Doc.S]

FlyingFrog

Thankyou for your understanding and yes sir.... I also believe that China will manage to make there way forward. Everything takes time. And I understand now one more thing. All humans around the globe think the same thing - Freedom - We all want freedom. But how it looks and how its managed that is from country to country. What is freedom for one person does not have to be freedom for another person. It is all relative and the freedom in sweden does not symbolize what I consider a true freedom. And to quote one great speach from one great man. One of my favourit quotes to be honest.

For in the final analysis, our most basic common link, is that we all inhabit this small planet, we all breathe the same air, we all cherish our children's futures, and we are all mortal.

John F. Kennedy, Speech at The American University, Washington, D.C., June 10, 1963

With great respect for all of you out here:
Doc.S

:viking:

 

[FlyingFrog]

And I understand now one more thing. All humans around the globe think the same thing - Freedom - We all want freedom. But how it looks and how its managed that is from country to country. What is freedom for one person does not have to be freedom for another person.

Yes Doc, I like your above words very much

Yes we should let the people in those "not-yet-that-free" countries do decide what they want, a man can be very poor or un-free, but he does not want to be forced to an "living envrionment" from outside forces.

And I think no one should claim he/she has the right to say "look, I am richer and freeer than you", cuz above this man, there are plenty of other people who are more richer and freeer than him/her.

Respect others first, then you will get respect back, it is so simple but yet so important.

I really hope those leaders of the big power countries understand this, especially the leaders in USA cuz they are no doubt the only superpower

Thank you Doc.S, you have always been reasonable and state your views in a respectfull way, that is simply superb

 

[Doc.S]

Thanks FlyingFrog Yes sir....

Respect is something my generation did learn from the older generation where I live. And I have always shown the next person to me the same respect. In this new generation of kids in sweden. There are no respect for the older generation. They simply don´t have that in them. I can tell you this because I have a little sister and she is almost 11 years now.

And sometimes I wonder what have happend to the world. I have also worked with children in nursery school. Well I want my comming children to have a good and decent ground to grow up on. They will learn to respect other people. A great place for that must be the US.

People from all over the world are living there. But as you say FlyingFrog ---- sometimes I got worried when I see whats happening in the world. I don´t have any worm feelings for the dictator Saddam Hussein.

Don´t get me wrong here. But I still think that even a president have the right to an desent trial. Even a dictator as former president Saddam Hussein. I think that many more nations than US that you find here in Europe have responsibility to take in this matter. I don´t find all these indictment against Saddam Hussein allright. This is politics yes I know but any man with some knowledge can see that all this is not allright.

I think that every man that is in for a trial should have the right to have a defence counsel at his side. That is one of the rights I find great in a democray. All persons shall be consider not guilty untill they have proven to be. Not all suspects are guilty otherwise they would not be suspects kind of thinking. No one would like that kind of treatment. That is the thinking that seperates me from a dictator, we are all human beings.

That is something nazi germany and Adolf Hitler didn`t think about. We are living in a new millenium. And I think that what happens with Saddam Hussien and Iraq in the future will be a benchmark for the future of any nation that want freedom. I can only pray for the US soldiers and their allies and there Iraqi friends and their familys that we don´t see another Iran in Iraq. That would be a huge steep backwards.

Still I think it is for the future even more Important that nations that attack other nations from the start tells the world why they attack another nation. And that more countries take there responsibility to take more active steps to make this small planet a better place to live on.

If they have something to hide ---- I think it is better to say that insted of throwing things at those nations that do something for the simple man or women. I think that a broad alliance is better then a small alliance. If they tell the people the truth from the beginning and don`t play in the common intrests of our different industrial democracys I think more people would be saved from these different evils on our small planet.

Cheers:
Doc.S

:viking: