1945 airshow with captured german a/c
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
I couldn't open it George.
German Technology
They sure gave the US a boost into the sciences - engineering fields of aerodynamics and rocketry. Interesting they got a Messerschmitt Me 163 Komet.
Fortunately these developments came to little to late and ended up benefited us more than Germany.
Although the many thousands killed in England by the V weapons and allied pilots shot down by the ME-262 are still a tragedy.
They sure gave the US a boost into the sciences - engineering fields of aerodynamics and rocketry. Interesting they got a Messerschmitt Me 163 Komet.
Fortunately these developments came to little to late and ended up benefited us more than Germany.
Although the many thousands killed in England by the V weapons and allied pilots shot down by the ME-262 are still a tragedy.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I am less convinced about German technical superiority than I have ever been, certainly the V2 was impressive but out side of that much of their technology was pointless (for example the Goliath remote control tank that had a nasty habit of doing a U-turn on the battlefield and detonating back where it started).
There was nothing overly special about the V1, Jet engines had been around since the mid to late 1930s and in terms of rocketry Russia was at least a match for the Germans.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I sort of agree with the post but I think one thing it over looks is German tactics, they were clearly better than most of the militaries they faced until 1943 and even until the end of the war the German soldier showed far more initiative that most of those he faced.
I would also partially disagree with the logistical argument as the Germans were adept at moving units around to where they were most needed had their logistics not been up to spec I do not believe they could have achieved this, I think were it all fell down was not at the coal face but rather the political level which left them with excess models of vehicles, aircraft and infantry weapons to maintain supplies for.
I would also partially disagree with the logistical argument as the Germans were adept at moving units around to where they were most needed had their logistics not been up to spec I do not believe they could have achieved this, I think were it all fell down was not at the coal face but rather the political level which left them with excess models of vehicles, aircraft and infantry weapons to maintain supplies for.
sandwichery
Active member
Good post. The aircraft that caught my eye was the USAAF's "Dominator". Hadn't realized that any made it to Europe.
Seen another version of this previously, think this is in Ohio.
Technology
· People tend to glorify the Tigers 1 and 2 as Germany best tanks but they weren’t they were hard to produce and subject to breakdown. The Panther “Panzer V AUSF G” was the best all around tank of World War 2.
· Henschel’s HS 293 Radio-controlled Glide Bomb was the most effective guided weapon of the war a bomb that destroyed numerous destroyers and trading ships.
· The Horten Ho 229 described by many as “the world’s first stealth bomber”, was the first pure flying wing plane to be powered by a jet engine. Like many of Germanys advanced weapons it came out to late to make an impact in the war.
· The Sturmgewehr 44, or StG 44 is considered by many to be the world’s first assault rifle. The StG 44’s design was so successful that modern assault rifles such as the infamous AK-47 and M16 designs are derived from it.It arrived too late in the war to make much of an impact on the battlefields of war-torn Europe. By war’s end an Infrared vision version was available..
· As for the ME-262 it was ready > a year prior to its usage as a fighter but was thumbed downed by Hitler and Goering. Had it come out in 43 its impact would have likely been much more dramatic and this would have allowed them time to trouble shoot the plane and use the runways needed for the jet. Despite it’s late start and engine burn issue out it still claimed a total of 542 Allied kills for a little over 100 ME-262 downed. Many were shot up while on the ground. They remained in service for Czechoslovakia until 1951.
· Germany had many of the most advanced concepts but often shortsighted leadership that did not try and implement some of the higher technologies until it was too late. It has been said that Hitler had a WW1 mentality when it came to utilizing revolutionary new technology and was suspicious of things he didn't understand.
· Some of the German super weapons were just ridiciusly oversized versions of regular weapons like Gustav a 31.5-inch caliber German cannon the largest the world has ever seen and the Panzerkampfwagen VIII Maus the heaviest tank ever built – tested (never implemented) it weighted 200 tons.
· The Allies had many innovations as well such as Hobarts Funnies which were critical in Normandy, the English who lead in radar developments, the atomic bomb.
It was a war of innovation and technology far more than that of any previous conflict. With some nations starting out with biplanes and cavalry and by wars end jets, rockets and A-bombs in use.
· People tend to glorify the Tigers 1 and 2 as Germany best tanks but they weren’t they were hard to produce and subject to breakdown. The Panther “Panzer V AUSF G” was the best all around tank of World War 2.
· Henschel’s HS 293 Radio-controlled Glide Bomb was the most effective guided weapon of the war a bomb that destroyed numerous destroyers and trading ships.
· The Horten Ho 229 described by many as “the world’s first stealth bomber”, was the first pure flying wing plane to be powered by a jet engine. Like many of Germanys advanced weapons it came out to late to make an impact in the war.
· The Sturmgewehr 44, or StG 44 is considered by many to be the world’s first assault rifle. The StG 44’s design was so successful that modern assault rifles such as the infamous AK-47 and M16 designs are derived from it.It arrived too late in the war to make much of an impact on the battlefields of war-torn Europe. By war’s end an Infrared vision version was available..
· As for the ME-262 it was ready > a year prior to its usage as a fighter but was thumbed downed by Hitler and Goering. Had it come out in 43 its impact would have likely been much more dramatic and this would have allowed them time to trouble shoot the plane and use the runways needed for the jet. Despite it’s late start and engine burn issue out it still claimed a total of 542 Allied kills for a little over 100 ME-262 downed. Many were shot up while on the ground. They remained in service for Czechoslovakia until 1951.
· Germany had many of the most advanced concepts but often shortsighted leadership that did not try and implement some of the higher technologies until it was too late. It has been said that Hitler had a WW1 mentality when it came to utilizing revolutionary new technology and was suspicious of things he didn't understand.
· Some of the German super weapons were just ridiciusly oversized versions of regular weapons like Gustav a 31.5-inch caliber German cannon the largest the world has ever seen and the Panzerkampfwagen VIII Maus the heaviest tank ever built – tested (never implemented) it weighted 200 tons.
· The Allies had many innovations as well such as Hobarts Funnies which were critical in Normandy, the English who lead in radar developments, the atomic bomb.
It was a war of innovation and technology far more than that of any previous conflict. With some nations starting out with biplanes and cavalry and by wars end jets, rockets and A-bombs in use.
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MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
The Tiger II I have yet to see too many people glorifying but I tend to think that the Tiger I was glorified for a reason which is that the Tiger I worked.
Everywhere German armour was fielded allied troops broke out in "Tiger Fever" it was a tank that although outdated by the time it took the field (designed in 1937) it remained a potent weapon until the last day of the war and it scared the c**p out of those that faced it.
So while the Panther G was/is considered by many to be the finest medium tank of the war (which I think disagree with) no one broke out in "Panther fever".
I am not sure "numerous" is the right word, it sunk about 25-30 ships in 2 years of operation.
Given the number of allied ships out there I think I would call that a failure.
Umm it never flew in combat and only had a handful of flights under power I am not sure it can be called the worlds first anything nor would I consider it a "war altering weapon".
I wont argue that the Germans initiated some amazing technological steps forward but they were all too little too late and built at a time when all they really did was consume resources that were in short supply and would have been better spent on existing weapons. The end result was a myriad of systems none of which were produced in significant numbers to be effective and most still in the development phase that were just as dangerous to those who used them as they were to the enemy.
I have always hated the argument that the Me-262 was a weapon that could have turned the tide of the air war had it been introduced earlier because it ignores the fact that the allies would have responded to it.
Meteor development was a few months behind that of the Me-262 and given the resources the allies had at their disposal I have little doubt they would have rushed it into service thus negating many of the benefits the Me-262 would have given the Luftwaffe.
Personally I think that from 1942 on the only thing that could have saved the Germans from defeat was an atomic bomb and I am convinced that the only thing that kept German in the war after 1942 was the quality of the German soldier and very little else.
Technology continued
1st off from mid-late 44 more Tiger 11’s were fielded than Tiger 1’s, so Tiger fever existed for both tanks on both fronts. The fear factor was high it could knock out a T34 or Sherman from 2000 yards. The up gunned T-34 could damage a Tiger at 500 yards and the original Sherman could not take it out when firing from the front. However the Sherman Firefly solved this issue but still at a considerable distance disadvantage. Even the Pershing and Heavy Soviet KV tanks didn’t have the rate of fire to keep up with the Tigers. The problem was they only build a grand total of 1843 total Tiger tanks over a 3 year period. Perhaps the fear factor for the Panthers Panzer V AUSF D and slightly improved Panzer V AUSF G was not as high. However they did manage to build ~ 10,000 of them. They were a heavy - medium tank with a very effective 75 mm gun, had much better mobility than the Tigers “ as good as the T-34 and Sherman’s” which helped for the highly mobile warfare of the Eastern front. The greatly outnumbered Panthers came to be used as mobile reserves to fight off major attacks.
Henschel’s HS 293 Radio-controlled Glide Bomb was the most effective guided weapon of the war a bomb that destroyed numerous destroyers and trading ships. The point here is it was the 1st real weapon of its type. Much of my discussion was to point out the potential in the technologies Germany had developed. This was the world’s 1st effective cruse missile.
The Horten Ho 229 described by many as “the world’s first stealth bomber”, was the first pure flying wing plane to be powered by a jet engine. Like many of Germanys advanced weapons it came out to late to make an impact in the war. Again the concept was revolutionary but the time was short as I stated. I thoroughly explained this at the end of the post. I am talking about the Technology itself. As mentioned much of this benefited the allies more after the war than it did the Germans during the war.
I agree the professionalism of the German solder – military was very high, although it began to wane a bit at the end as boys and older men were conscripted. Their training and society was different from that of the west and East. Essentially “with the short exception of the little loved Weimar Republic” they had been a militaristic - Martial society from the time of Bismarck.
1st off from mid-late 44 more Tiger 11’s were fielded than Tiger 1’s, so Tiger fever existed for both tanks on both fronts. The fear factor was high it could knock out a T34 or Sherman from 2000 yards. The up gunned T-34 could damage a Tiger at 500 yards and the original Sherman could not take it out when firing from the front. However the Sherman Firefly solved this issue but still at a considerable distance disadvantage. Even the Pershing and Heavy Soviet KV tanks didn’t have the rate of fire to keep up with the Tigers. The problem was they only build a grand total of 1843 total Tiger tanks over a 3 year period. Perhaps the fear factor for the Panthers Panzer V AUSF D and slightly improved Panzer V AUSF G was not as high. However they did manage to build ~ 10,000 of them. They were a heavy - medium tank with a very effective 75 mm gun, had much better mobility than the Tigers “ as good as the T-34 and Sherman’s” which helped for the highly mobile warfare of the Eastern front. The greatly outnumbered Panthers came to be used as mobile reserves to fight off major attacks.
Henschel’s HS 293 Radio-controlled Glide Bomb was the most effective guided weapon of the war a bomb that destroyed numerous destroyers and trading ships. The point here is it was the 1st real weapon of its type. Much of my discussion was to point out the potential in the technologies Germany had developed. This was the world’s 1st effective cruse missile.
The Horten Ho 229 described by many as “the world’s first stealth bomber”, was the first pure flying wing plane to be powered by a jet engine. Like many of Germanys advanced weapons it came out to late to make an impact in the war. Again the concept was revolutionary but the time was short as I stated. I thoroughly explained this at the end of the post. I am talking about the Technology itself. As mentioned much of this benefited the allies more after the war than it did the Germans during the war.
I agree the professionalism of the German solder – military was very high, although it began to wane a bit at the end as boys and older men were conscripted. Their training and society was different from that of the west and East. Essentially “with the short exception of the little loved Weimar Republic” they had been a militaristic - Martial society from the time of Bismarck.
Kesse81
Banned
They didn't.
sandwichery
Active member
So, that was what? A B29?
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sandwichery
Active member
I realize that none flew on combat operations in Europe during the war, but I found it interesting that the USAAF expended the effort to get what was basically a backup aircraft to Europe for a celebratory airshow.
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Repeat: I believe this was in Ohio.
sandwichery
Active member
George, my comment was aimed at Kesse81. The sighting of a B-32 anywhere, including Ohio, was a rare experience. You're a lucky man, hope that you got a photo.