I would call this a MUST SEE!

[MontyB]

MontyB
You are just as guilty as those you accuse of NOT SEEING.

You are the one who is blind, at least the rest of us realise that we don't have all of the answers. Your answer is NO ANSWER.

I agree but then I am not pretending to have the answer either, the difference is that I am not going to sit here and spout B grade movie cliche's while telling everyone they are wrong or at least dont know what they are talking about.

So lets make this perfectly clear I dont have the answer to the middle east problems (especially since there is strong resistence to nuking the entire region :lol but I am more than happy to listen to realistic solutions.

 

[Yossarian]

Thats exactly what I think, but when people(most muslims)are un educated, and have no sense of world events or history, and are only offered education on religion, this is what happens, this my freinds can happen in any religon.

Prime example;
Waco Texas, the Branch Dividians teachings werent bad, they had a heavy reliance on the Bible and the Book of Revalation, but they were soon twisted by the man David Koresh into a brainwashing materials.

He said he was a patriot and had a deep love for his contry, but soon started a new teaching program on how in order to become God's Chosen few, he stated to make it to heaven they must battle no other, the United States goverment.And then he also stated God told him to have a raised army of childeren he must birth, into his "House of David" so then he had multiple childeren with Dividians Wifes, and even under age girls.

And then the big issue, why would a Church and its members of a Peacful Religon, one that has been around before then for around 50 years would have a stock pile of Barreta Pistols, Pakistanian Made Hand gernades, A 50 Machine gun, Barret Rifle, and multiple hunting rifles, And Semi Automatic AR 15s, and Fully Automatic AK 47s?

Look All I am saying is that this can be possible in any religion, and the Branch dividians we not the first to do it either.If you study militant Islam you will find their belived reasons, the Reason Iran hates the United States for example is a personel grudge from there dicator,for destroying their entire Naval Fleet and helping Sadam Hussian in the Iraq Iran war.

 

[bulldogg]

Finishing a fight is not a cliche. Your failure to grasp that is not surprising. The same things were said in response to Churchill in the 1930's. There is a war and it is not about territory, its about ideology so there is only three possible outcomes. Either the West abandons its civilization and adopts Islam, the Islamic world abandons Islam and adopts western culture with all its features or one side destroys the other. Everyone knows that Islam is not going to conform to the West so the choices are to take the route of Europe and grab our ankles or to kill the leaders of Islam which are responsible for this and anyone who follows them... finish the fight.

 

[MontyB]

Finishing a fight is not a cliche. Your failure to grasp that is not surprising. The same things were said in response to Churchill in the 1930's. There is a war and it is not about territory, its about ideology so there is only three possible outcomes. Either the West abandons its civilization and adopts Islam, the Islamic world abandons Islam and adopts western culture with all its features or one side destroys the other. Everyone knows that Islam is not going to conform to the West so the choices are to take the route of Europe and grab our ankles or to kill the leaders of Islam which are responsible for this and anyone who follows them... finish the fight.

Yeah whatever.
There is no one on this board or any other I know that doesnt not see the need to fight terrorism however I am pleased to say that these is still a sizable number intelligent enough to be able to separate a fringe element from the masses.

Personally I think that this statement shows the reason why you have no answers to this problem

Everyone knows that Islam is not going to conform to the West so the choices are to take the route of Europe and grab our ankles or to kill the leaders of Islam which are responsible for this and anyone who follows them... finish the fight.

Because you are to busy clear felling a forest to find a shrub.

Islam doesnt have to "conform" to the west all we have to do is find a way to co-exist (and yes I know it wont be easy) and like it or not throughout the world people do just that with few if any difficulties unfortunately that answer wont appeal to the few flag waving xenophobes there but the simple fact is that islam is not going to destroy the west and west isnt going to destroy islam so in reality it is the only answer.

 

[bulldogg]

Asking Muslims to co-exist with other cultures and religions shows a depth of misunderstanding and ignorance of Islam. The Qu'ran declares a major tenet of the religion the subjugation of ALL other religions and that ALL inhabitants of the earth must convert to Islam or they are to be put to death. To ask a muslim to co-exist and allow another religion to exist is to ask him to abandon islam... an act which according to the Qu'ran would demand other muslims put HIM to death.

There is no middle ground with Islam. All those who proclaim to be peaceful muslims are merely following the path proscribed also in the Qu'ran and teachings of the muftis to try to peacefully assimilate the kuffa but if they, the non-muslims, do not convert through peaceful assimilation and infiltration of Islam into these foreign cultures then they are to face the sword and make a choice. Death or Islam.

Denial of the truth does not negate its validity.

 

[MontyB]

Asking Muslims to co-exist with other cultures and religions shows a depth of misunderstanding and ignorance of Islam. The Qu'ran declares a major tenet of the religion the subjugation of ALL other religions and that ALL inhabitants of the earth must convert to Islam or they are to be put to death. To ask a muslim to co-exist and allow another religion to exist is to ask him to abandon islam... an act which according to the Qu'ran would demand other muslims put HIM to death.

There is no middle ground with Islam. All those who proclaim to be peaceful muslims are merely following the path proscribed also in the Qu'ran and teachings of the muftis to try to peacefully assimilate the kuffa but if they, the non-muslims, do not convert through peaceful assimilation and infiltration of Islam into these foreign cultures then they are to face the sword and make a choice. Death or Islam.

Denial of the truth does not negate its validity.

Yes and declaring your answer as the truth doesnt make it the truth either.

This argument is now at the point where its chasing its tail neither of us will change our opinion so before I get silly and say what I really think of your argument how about we leave it where it is and hopefully someone else will add something useful.

But before I leave this thread I have a question, in the last 100-1000 years how many christian countries have been attacked by islamic countries?
I would suggest that if you look at the numbers it is infact the christians that have trouble coexisting.

 

[Chief Bones]

Asking Muslims to co-exist with other cultures and religions shows a depth of misunderstanding and ignorance of Islam. The Qu'ran declares a major tenet of the religion the subjugation of ALL other religions and that ALL inhabitants of the earth must convert to Islam or they are to be put to death. To ask a muslim to co-exist and allow another religion to exist is to ask him to abandon islam... an act which according to the Qu'ran would demand other muslims put HIM to death.

There is no middle ground with Islam. All those who proclaim to be peaceful muslims are merely following the path proscribed also in the Qu'ran and teachings of the muftis to try to peacefully assimilate the kuffa but if they, the non-muslims, do not convert through peaceful assimilation and infiltration of Islam into these foreign cultures then they are to face the sword and make a choice. Death or Islam.

Denial of the truth does not negate its validity.

Where your argument has a fallacy, is when you say that ALL Muslims have the belief that you are quoting and it just ISN'T true.

If you say that ALL extremist Islamofascists have this belief, then you are correct - when you say that ALL Muslims have this belief you are wrong.

It's the same thing as as saying ALL Christians are in favor of Creationism and divine intervention being taught in our public schools - taint true.

There are Muslims that are perfectly willing to co-exist as long as we do NOT try to interfere with their worship or their lifestyle. It's NOT my opinion, it has been said by other Muslims who were willing to speak out. I'll grant you, it's only a minority that are vocal about either side of the argument that are Muslim.

As Monty says 'saying your answer as the truth, doesn't make it the truth'.

For sure, I don't think anybody has an easy answer (or) an answer that everybody can agree on right now.

 

[bulldogg]

To quote from the priest I just saw on TV... "Would God/Allah order something that is irrational? No. So then if Islam is a religion from God then Jihad and spreading the word of Allah at the point of the sword cannot be a part of the religion." I would continue... that since Jihad and the death or conversion of infidels is called for repeatedly in their holy text it is NOT a religion from God but from a much darker source.

 

[Yossarian]

The west can , and has, the capabilities needed for a full scale destruction of militant Islam,but... That would soon spread into a Genocide, and the West has to many idealogical restraints to take such action.

Thus, militant Isalm will always excist in the middle East, always. But, with the future oil cirsis soon arising in the coming years, the Western power , the United States, with about 0.5% of the world population, but consumes 25% of this planets fossil fuels.The strange fact is, ironicaly, all this rebuilding schools, and retrubution for 9 11 , and the coalition rebuiliding Iraq, this will go all out the window come the dawn of the oil crisis.

If you still dont get what I am saying then answer this, militant Islamic leaders have ties with some nation who have massive amounts of oil,so, even though we in the Western world, and in China buy from them. These leaders still get filthy rich with funds to continue attacking the west.And as backwards and primitive as they seem, when the oil lines drip dry some, possibly 10- 15- 20 years from now, they will be better off than the Energy starved west, and will gain the upper hand, since they dont live around the black smelly dirty gold we call oil.


When gas reaches $160 a barrel, the Average American will be paying
$5.00 a gallon, and will be more willing to go into civil unrest for gas.Buses trains and planes and ships will stop moving, the whole medication industry will be put at a almost standstill.

However the Average Muslim, will go ahead with their average lives, almost completely uneffected , and the extremists, who dont even think about using gun oil, will be more than happy to exploit security gaps in the west due to energy starvation, adiction to fossil fuels will be the biggest threat to the quality of life for American and citizens in other developted nations and a far as I know, hopefully the Muslim Extemists dont know this yet.