The world only protests when Israel Strikes

I don't know that you can call what the Nazi's did to the Jews only making them second-class citizens... They did much, MUCH worse than what Israel is doing to Pakistan...
 
Both sides of the argument are being unreasonable. Neither side wants to compromise even a little, so the fighting will continue. And while I do find Palestine's terrorist activities reprehensible, I can also not excuse Israel's use of a terror against Palestinian civilians. Neither side is in the right, and neither side should pretend that they are.
 
Rob Henderson said:
I don't know that you can call what the Nazi's did to the Jews only making them second-class citizens... They did much, MUCH worse than what Israel is doing to Pakistan...
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What,.. you think that a dead Jew is deader than a Dead Palestinian?

How so??

It is only a matter of scale.

What many people are losing sight of here is that unfortunately although this is an International Forum, we are effectively flooded with the American views of this matter.

People don't stop to think that there is a whole other world out there who do not necessarily share the USA's views on this matter. In the real world, I think you will find that Israels treatment of the Palestinians is viewed much more even-handedly.

Yes, the Jewish people suffered immensely at the hands of the Nazis and the world will never allow it to be forgotten. However this does not give them the right to do exactly the same to another people in another place without world condemnation.
 
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senojekips said:
What,.. you think that a dead Jew is deader than a Dead Palestinian?

How so??
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I think there are much better ways to die than what happened to some, no, to MOST of the Jews in the Holocaust. And plus, not all the Jews died instantly, some didn't die at all... They were simply tortured and let go... Why? Who knows....
 
Rob Henderson said:
I think there are much better ways to die than what happened to some, no, to MOST of the Jews in the Holocaust. And plus, not all the Jews died instantly, some didn't die at all... They were simply tortured and let go... Why? Who knows....
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And you think that this is not happening to the Palestinians. Many are imprisoned, tortured and beaten with no charges, for years, also try telling this to innocent women and children buried alive in bombed buildings, slowly suffocating and dying of shock and dehydration.

Once again your views are flavoured by the political expediency of the USA. The truth is that not "everything" the US does is good for the world.
 
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My biggest concern is this turning into a massive brawl in the middle east. The longer it lasts, the more risk there is that other Muslim nations will get involved against Israel. This also creates a risk of the US getting involved on the side of Israel.
 
The only other nations that would possibly get involved would be Iran and Syria and I have my doubts whether Syria is all that interested. Saudi is too busy making money and Iran I suspect would want to finish its nuclear programs before it starts getting involved.
 
If that was the whole story you would be right, but that is Israels story and if we have learn't anything in the last few years it is that people are adept at only telling us half the story.
 
They're both going to have to get along. That's the only solution there is. As long as the complete destruction of Israel is on the agenda of the Palestinians, they will continue to attack Israel to bait them into blowing up their own people so they can look sad in front of the world press so that the rest of us will start telling Israel to stop existing.
 
That won't change, whole generations were raised to hate Israel and because their beloved arabian friends who moan every palestinian death don't want them in their lands there's no end to the problem only total destruction...
 
ObjSRgtLw said:
That won't change, whole generations were raised to hate Israel and because their beloved arabian friends who moan every palestinian death don't want them in their lands there's no end to the problem only total destruction...
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Here is an open ended question for you, what would you do if it was your country?

Here is your scenario, the land you have lived on for the last 2000 years is suddenly given to someone else who's claim to the land is that a relative about 100 times removed might have lived there 15 generations ago.

What do you do:
A) Say yeah what ever I will just move into this nice refugee camp and you do as you please.

B) Suck it up and start again on a barren rock elsewhere.

C) Take up arms and defend what you perceive as your country?

Now I am going to be honest here and say my answer would be C, I am not going to say that I agree entirely with Palestinian methods but I can understand why they are using them.
 
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let's continue on with that.

Fifty years have gone by, the so called "occupiers" are not going anywhere and obviously don't have anywhere to go. We can...
a) Keep pissing them off and as a result see our buildings get destroyed and our friends and family get killed.
b) Figure out a way where we can co-exist so my kids don't have to fight the same damned war in which victory is obviously impossible.

I can understand the Palestinians if they had been occupied yesterday, the year before or perhaps up to twenty years ago, but after fifty years, their time has passed. The Israelis of the current generation belong there just as much as they do and a good deal of them don't have any where else to call home.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
let's continue on with that.

Fifty years have gone by, the so called "occupiers" are not going anywhere and obviously don't have anywhere to go. We can...
a) Keep pissing them off and as a result see our buildings get destroyed and our friends and family get killed.
b) Figure out a way where we can co-exist so my kids don't have to fight the same damned war in which victory is obviously impossible.

I can understand the Palestinians if they had been occupied yesterday, the year before or perhaps up to twenty years ago, but after fifty years, their time has passed. The Israelis of the current generation belong there just as much as they do and a good deal of them don't have any where else to call home.
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Do you think the French resistance would have stopped had D-Day never have happened, how about Yugoslav, Polish or Russian partisans do you think they had a preset time to call it quits and just march off to their respective ghettos?

You people waffle on about pushing back when confronted, fighting for your nations freedom and so on and so forth and yet you expect the Palestinians to roll over because their cause has taken too long?

What do you think your limit for North Korean, Japanese or Chinese occupation will be before you decide your independence is just too difficult, a week, month, year?
 
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Different case.
The Germans obviously have a country they belong to - Germany. Telling them to go back would actually make sense. The Jews don't have a Jewish country. So it's a very differnet story.
Time to work to make the ghettos into real countries. Getting bombed endlessly isn't going to change that.
 
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Well, I'd say unless the Israelis either get serious and commit properly to an ongoing genocide, or give back the land to it's owners. This is just going to go on and on with each generation of Palestinians getting more and more radical.

They made the mistake of taking the Zionists too lightly in the first place, since that time it has slowly ramped up, each generation gets more and more bitter.
In another 50 years you will have the entrenched animosity and bitterness that you see between the Serbians and the Croatians where the war will never really go away it will quieten down from time to time and then re emerge art the first opportunity. Generally without warning and without quarter. Terrorism will become part of daily life.

I think the Israelis know this, but at the moment are content to merely steal their land and kill as many as the opportunity allows without raising too much world indignation.

Just think about it a little before spouting some garbage prepared by the politicians. It's already happening.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
Different case.
The Germans obviously have a country they belong to - Germany. Telling them to go back would actually make sense. The Jews don't have a Jewish country. So it's a very differnet story.
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You got it in one there.... No they don't have a country, so they should never have been allowed to take someone else's.
 
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the_13th_redneck said:
Different case.
The Germans obviously have a country they belong to - Germany. Telling them to go back would actually make sense. The Jews don't have a Jewish country. So it's a very differnet story.
Time to work to make the ghettos into real countries. Getting bombed endlessly isn't going to change that.
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So your argument is that religions deserve their own country and if they don't have one they should just pick some land at random and move in?

I hate to break it to you but the Jews that moved into Palestine in the 1940s were not entirely stateless and floating around the ether waiting for some dirt to be vacated so they could move in, they were predominantly Europeans, French, German, Polish etc.
 
im not going to qoute and reply because i dont have the time(you guys are rally posting alot. thats a good thing).

1. There is no comparison between war crimes commited by Israeli forces(Yes, I admit that this sometimes happens), to Genoncide such as the one the Germans inflicted on the Jews. Israel has no ethnic purge intentions. If we had any we wouldent have 1 million arabs with Israeli ID cards.
2. The Israeli Arabs, while perhaps not treated as well as they should be, are hardly second class citizens. They vote, can get elected to parliament, and can serve as ministers in the government. They also serve in the civil services, police and so on.
3.senojekips, your opinions about who the land belongs to are irrelevent. This is for two reasons:
A)Israel already exists.
B)Palestine, as an independent country, never existed. Infact, Palestinian as a nationality is a 60-70 year old term.
4. The debate if Jewish is a religion, a nationality, or an ethnicety is very complicated. I believe its an ethnicity. I base this on a common langauge, common culture and common history. Self definition is as good for us as as it is good for the Palestinians.
5. Israels location was not "random". It is by historical evidence the Jewish homeland. Jews lived there before a single arab got outside of Saudi-Arabia.
6. Israel is not occupying Gaza, and was out of most of the West Bank by 2000. It also intended to leave the rest of the west bank. The palestinians refused to compremise. The reason for this is that their main goal is not an independent palestine but to destroy israel.
 
SHERMAN said:
im not going to qoute and reply because i dont have the time(you guys are rally posting alot. thats a good thing).

3.senojekips, your opinions about who the land belongs to are irrelevent. This is for two reasons:
A)Israel already exists.
But it only exists because someone else took the land from its owners and gave it away, when it was not theirs to give.
B)Palestine, as an independent country, never existed. In fact, Palestinian as a nationality is a 60-70 year old term.
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But at least they were the owners when it was stolen from them and given away. It should have been given to the people who now call themselves the Palestinian people after all it was, and still is "their" land.

5. Israels location was not "random". It is by historical evidence the Jewish homeland. Jews lived there before a single arab got outside of Saudi-Arabia.
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And I can go back to the land of my ancestors too, but that gives me no right whatsoever to eject the present owners and take over. I'd be locked up and the key would be thrown away if I tried it.

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_early_palestine_first_jews.php
The Israelite invasion of Canaan around 1200 BC, following the Exodus from Egypt as described in the Bible, is the traditional account. This date has not been confirmed by archeology and some scholars argue that the Biblical version is mere legend (although the Merneptah Stela implies Israel was well established by the end of the 13th century BC--see 'What is the evidence for the antiquity of Israel?'). In particular, it is not clear if the early Israelite conquering of this land was an invasion from without (coming from Egypt) or more of an internal struggle between groups that inhabited the area. That is, the early Israelites may have been entirely or partially indigenous to Canaan.
Confirmed historical dates and a continuous Jewish historical record in Palestine begin with the Second Temple period, starting with the return of exiled Jews from Babylonia (roughly today's southern Iraq) in 538 BC.
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I see no real evidence of what you claim. The Canaanites were apparently there prior to the accepted arrival of the Jews, It seems that the old saying is true, "The first casualty of war is the truth"

All of the above notwithstanding, I have no disagreement with the Jewish people moving back to their historical homeland, but they should have to do it exactly the same as anyone else in the world. They should have been made to apply for visas and only allowed back if they were granted.

It is not "their" land, they had left it, just as my ancestors left England several hundred years ago. And just like me they have absolutely no claim on their "historic" homeland.
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