Why they hate (U.S.)

Yossarian

Forum Resistance Leader
I was sitting on the couch with the significant other tonight and one way or another the dead cat being foreign interventionism and the cost of empire got dragged up.

Upon her giving me the normal consensus of why we intervene so many places all around the word, is because they (they being the vague term for all other Non American inhabitants on this Earth) hate us.

When asked why although her answer was intelligently worded, her answer ran right back into the Catch 22 that is the typical consensus of them hating us for our freedom ( also a vague term in some regards) and prosperity.

Now, I am no stranger to challenging the common logic on America and more broadly the West's place in this world. And no stranger to being called every derogatory name in the book, and most oftenly called un American.

But this is my general question, the reason I find that so many grit their teeth is over the fact that I have a tendency to point out those swept little bits of history under the rug. I also ask the most difficult question.

If you were from ( Insert Your Country ) what would you think of the U.S. and why?

Some countries get new hospitals, new schools, some get predator drones, what do the witnesses on the ground think from these different actions by Americans and Westerners around the world?

The hardest thing it seems to do is to ask Americans and other Westerners to remove your flag from your train of thought for a moment. Look at why these (enemies) hate us, why they resist, and most importantly what actions that often go unreported lead to the complex international situations that lead to such violence?

In short, thinking deeper than what the papers say.

With over 55 military interventions in a half a century, hundreds of bases and installations around the world, and a incredibly strong sense of denial on consequences and amazing justification machine for use of force.

Also, the hardest thing I often see on American's faces when asked these difficult question is the normal inability to remove common morality and look at the events that have happened. I know this seems a little illogical but it is the easiest way I have learned in understanding why foreign populations often radicalize, for different reasons for violence against the U.S.

And why does American Public Opinion fight this trend tooth and nail? And will fight viciously to defend this comfort zone of denial?

For I love our armed forces, have family and friends serving, and they are some of the best people I know, why then do we create situations abroad that forces us to sacrifice the ones we love often for reasons that are rarely led with any moral conscience?

Maybe if we ponder these questions I can maybe find an easy answer that the general public can swallow on why "they" hate us. And why violence persist to this day against our fellow citizens abroad. And why the fighting never stops.
 
Hmm I can give you a short answer:
We the 6.8 billion people that are not Americans don't think about the USA at all yet for some reason you the 316 million Americans are convinced we do.

I would suggest that the assumption that "we" hate you is more an American desire to think that you are somehow better when in reality I doubt that very few in the western world give a damn what goes on in America we have our own problems to deal with.

As for hating your freedoms well I think Edward Snowden has pretty much indicated that you don't have any freedoms for us to hate and the reality is that the majority of the western world have the same if not more so that is really an illusion as well.

Having traveled a sizable chunk of the world I cant honestly say that I have found anyone that has claimed to "hate" Americans I have found a lot of people that dislike your foreign policies, the support for dodgy dictatorships, the dictatorial nature toward nations when committing the same acts yourselves and the support of ideologies over human rights tend to annoy.

On the whole though I think most people are amused by the American desire to take yourselves so seriously when for the most part no one cares, you are like the person that always shows up at an informal gathering and tries to run it while every one else just wants to have fun.
 
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Hmm I can give you a short answer:
We the 6.8 billion people that are not Americans don't think about the USA at all yet for some reason you the 316 million Americans are convinced we do.

I would suggest that the assumption that "we" hate you is more an American desire to think that you are somehow better when in reality I doubt that very few in the western world give a damn what goes on in America we have our own problems to deal with.

As for hating your freedoms well I think Edward Snowden has pretty much indicated that you don't have any freedoms for us to hate and the reality is that the majority of the western world have the same if not more so that is really an illusion as well.

Having traveled a sizable chunk of the world I cant honestly say that I have found anyone that has claimed to "hate" Americans I have found a lot of people that dislike your foreign policies, the support for dodgy dictatorships, the dictatorial nature toward nations when committing the same acts yourselves and the support of ideologies over human rights tend to annoy.

On the whole though I think most people are amused by the American desire to take yourselves so seriously when for the most part no one cares, you are like the person that always shows up at an informal gathering and tries to run it while every one else just wants to have fun.


Just the napkin needed to wipe off my glasses. I already assumed as much that the majority of the world doesn't really care too much about U.S. Self Opinion or even gives us the thought of day.

However it's just a little frustrating hearing the same assumed lines about backlash for every act of aggression or violence against my country from our foreign policy.

On the whole the fact most people on Earth have no interest or opinion is what I kinda already guessed. Everyone at some point really by our very nature only follows what's in their own best interest. And I don't say that with any attached morality, it is what it is.
 
Yo, to be perfectly blunt, America's foreign policy stinks and much of your civil policy is no better.

Americans as individuals are great people, but they have been fed a diet of BS and "we are" for so long that they now believe their own "puffing".

I have spent quite a bit of time in the US with a 9 month stay being my longest, and the one thing that I could never work out is why most Americans assume that other nations think they are great, yet in the same breath will tell you that no one gives their country the respect that they feel is due.

Essentially, I feel that the average US citizen has little or no idea of how the world really works, and even less idea of how they view the US.
 
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The hype stops at the border, however when you swim in it all the time everyday it can be no wonder why so often my fellow citizens just start to eat it and ignore just looking at this country from the outside in on where we fit in the world, and how and why it is as such.

People here just plain out don't seem to like the idea of looking at things from another person's perspective to highlight why we face the challenges abroad that we do.

Or at least with notion that those who do challenge our interest do not share the same morals nor admire the same qualities we get fed since childhood when we do find confrontations elsewhere.

I am not calling anybody ignorant nor stupid. Not in the slightest, I am no genius nor do I have it anywhere near all figured out. Just a observation, nothing more.
 
People here just plain out don't seem to like the idea of looking at things from another person's perspective to highlight why we face the challenges abroad that we do.

Or at least with notion that those who do challenge our interest do not share the same morals nor admire the same qualities we get fed since childhood when we do find confrontations elsewhere.

But this tends to happen when the data you are receiving does not match the answer you want, instead of re-evaluating the your answer it is easier to determine that the data must be wrong.

This is I believe where the "everyone hates us" mentality comes from you are fed the idea that you are the worlds shining example at everything yet the developed worlds response is pretty much "meh".
Rather than accepting you are not in our every thought it is easier to draw the conclusion that everyone else is wrong and is just so jealous that it has become hate.

Now obviously I use the terms western world and developed world as the views of the third world are somewhat different in that given the chance they would be flag waving card carrying Americans in a heartbeat but I am prepared to bet that most of the third world will take what ever they can get over what they have now.
 
But this tends to happen when the data you are receiving does not match the answer you want, instead of re-evaluating the your answer it is easier to determine that the data must be wrong.

This is I believe where the "everyone hates us" mentality comes from you are fed the idea that you are the worlds shining example at everything yet the developed worlds response is pretty much "meh".
Rather than accepting you are not in our every thought it is easier to draw the conclusion that everyone else is wrong and is just so jealous that it has become hate.

Now obviously I use the terms western world and developed world as the views of the third world are somewhat different in that given the chance they would be flag waving card carrying Americans in a heartbeat but I am prepared to bet that most of the third world will take what ever they can get over what they have now.


The reason I posted this is if you are like me, you look at the causes, and the effects to why people

A: Have the opinions that they do, both Americans and our adversaries.

And

B: What is the reality, the actual events that have occurred to lead to this. Not the rehashed "official" opinions we are all fed.

I look for what is truly happening and look for logical and thought based answers, not opinions or overly simplistic or emotionally charged ones.

All I am asking, is how do you get people to "think" before slinging one of those lines you listed above?

Once again, many of the people who choose that route are not cretins, they are smart people, It's just there is the constant resistance to change of thought.

That's pretty much the nutshell I am trying to crack here. I understand and pretty much surmised as much as both you gentlemen are telling me. Just don't know how to tell that to many of my fellow citizens...

I love America, my country, but I just wish for a more Aware and conscience nation. And I feel we shouldn't have to sacrfice national pride and patriotism to be a little more thoughtful on the world stage should we? You don't have to be the center of attention to be proud.
 
YOSS, I believe you are a Pacifist like many Ameircan, why USA launch many war against other countries after world war 2?


ONE VIEW on internet of China , USA politician launch war is for defend the dollar and financial hegemony.

Americans in the past 40 years, found a way is the best way of national survival, that is to use financial instruments to transfer wealth from the global to the United States. Americans find that they do not need produce any products, produced only thing you can get rich, you can live better than all the world, this way is printing dollars. Americans can produce dollars to live a good life, in this sense, the American way of life is the most basic financial survival.


Of course, Americans are clear in this way to amass wealth," global industrial division of labor " is not enough, even coupled with oil pegged to the dollar is not enough, you also need a very powerful tool, if without this measure, the United States can't rob so much wealth from the people of world, this means is top1 military strength.


So I alway didn't like the JEWS of the Wall street , they always use financial tools or financial game cheat the moneys from the people of the world! The Jews produce nothing except arms! They are parasites and vampires!
 
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I still have a favourable view of the US, allthough Obama politics is starting to reverse that view.

I've had some American friends back in Germany and they were all nice people. They were there as a helping force against a Soviet invasion, not an occupation force.

The US kept Taiwan free. They were also the major force to safeguard the freedom of South Korea. They transferred Japan and Germany to powerfull economic nations. They gave us Rock n Roll, jeans and the internet and GPS. Up untill now they acted as a global superpower should act.

Sure, they installed right wing dictatorships because it was the only alternative to left wing dictatorships (communism) but they never annexed foreign countries like China did with Tibet or Russia with parts of Poland and Romania.

They forced France, Britain and Israel to back down after they invaded Egypt because of the nationalization of the Suez Canal.

They were the major force to drive Iraq out of Kuwait.

They used to be a reliable partner, until Obama surfaced.

According to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development the US is by far the biggest donor in fanancial aid to foreign countries.

The reason why some hate the US is becaust the US goes (went) after the naughty boys to punish them. The naughty boys of today are the Islamic radicals. Onfortunately the US uses the wrong tools (Special OPS, drones) to combat them. A 15 year old Pakastani girl knows how, like I told you more than one year ago.

No country or nation is perfect, but few countries can match the US if you look at the bare facts. Wishful thinking does not change facts.

Unfortunately the president that promised to change the US is changing it in the wrong direction. Spying on its citizens, attacking political oponents through national institutions (IRS), reducing freedom of press (AP, Fox, Reuters), sacrificing american lives (including an ambassador) to get reelected, setting red lines with no action if crossed (now the whole world knows), waiting on the sidelines and side with the victor (Egypt).
 
Sure, they installed right wing dictatorships because it was the only alternative to left wing dictatorships (communism) but they never annexed foreign countries like China did with Tibet or Russia with parts of Poland and Romania.

I would like to draw your attention to July 7, 1898.
The U.S. annexation of the Hawaiian Islands on July 7, 1898, was the culmination of more than fifty years of growing U.S. commercial interests in Hawaii. During the second half of the nineteenth century, American investors in the sugar industry gradually increased their control over the islands' economic and political life. In 1887 they arranged to overthrow the local rulers and establish a government more favorable to their interests. But in 1891 they suffered a setback, when the new queen, Liliuokalani, replaced the liberal constitution they had secured with one giving her extensive personal powers.
I guess I will over look the 1845 annexation of Texas, the 1898 annexation of Guam and Puerto Rico and the 1899 annexation of the Philippines as I understand the desire to suck up but if you are going to make a blanket statement like " they never annexed foreign countries" you should at least know that it is incorrect especially when you look at the "bare facts".
 
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I've had some American friends back in Germany and they were all nice people. They were there as a helping force against a Soviet invasion, not an occupation force.

The US kept Taiwan free. They were also the major force to safeguard the freedom of South Korea. They transferred Japan and Germany to powerfull economic nations.

That's delima, I know personally some of the best people who have strong moral consciences and values at hand in my nation's armed services. However My personal experiences with them and all the good things our nation has done can be tainted by only one bad experience. 1,000 Refugees receiving medical care in Tsunami stricken areas of the South Western Pacific won't sway the mind of the young Yemeni who just witnessed a hellfire missile vaporize some of his countrymen for leaning to radical ideals spurred partially from America's undeniable and ruthless addiction to fossil fuels.




They gave us Rock n Roll, jeans and the internet and GPS. Up untill now they acted as a global superpower should act.

Freedom, freedom... Freedom for Coke, Or Pespi, Freedom for Gas, or Gas and batteries, freedom for Samsung , Or LG, Freedom... It's how you see it, it's what you do with it,

Yes we have a higher quality of life, but where does that quality of life begin and freedom end? Is it true freedom or freedom at an expense? Our excess has to be paid for somewhere.

Or what it does for you... Freedom to spend, to consume, to burn through all viable assets this Earth has to offer, but mainly, to spend, to siphon your wealth for an endless viscous cycle that spawns the cruelest treatment of this Planet's downtrodden to continue this consolidation of wealth. This is the most common counter point to that comment.

And you know me and counter points. It doesn't matter as much as what one thinks of themselves when considering a global scale, only what the world in this codependent exchange thinks. When you live along these lines anyway.

Sure, they installed right wing dictatorships because it was the only alternative to left wing dictatorships (communism) but they never annexed foreign countries like China did with Tibet or Russia with parts of Poland and Romania.

So when ever is a dictatorship a viable alternative? What about in your own country when many fail to announce a better alternative to social trends is it okay with you to have the jackboot pressed against your back?

To each their own I guess?

But not me, and not many of this planet's residents. True, in this modern era of globalization and financial threats and warfare, the U.S. has done the incredible, never before has so efficiently has any superpower ever exercised financial ruin to a nation's economy as such a powerful tool to change geo political events.

Never has any super power ever exercised such global reach.... A base in the middle of the Indian ocean for example that can house aircraft capable of striking the entire hemisphere.

Why threaten with such global reach? When your country only covers a small percentage of the surface of the globe? Why do this? Why have over 700 military installations all around the globe? And a corresponding military command for each part of the planet? What other nation does this on such a scale?

Bases placed at choke points for trade and resource gathering/processing around the world?

Common logic says one thing, If I were an alien stumbling upon humanity for the first time I'd I assume this, the U.S. burns through he lion's share of everything in a vicious never ending machine that is mass consumerism , a fraction of the populace expending a majority of the resources.

Why invade when you can buyout? Why commit when you can sway the table, because as they say, the house always wins.

That is why I asked this question, that Is the thread in my mind, and what the world thought about that is what I wanted to know as the author of this thread.

Is this a nationality issue? Or just the continuation of our species' very nature? Psychology or politics?:|
 
I would like to draw your attention to July 7, 1898.
The U.S. annexation of the Hawaiian Islands on July 7, 1898, was the culmination of more than fifty years of growing U.S. commercial interests in Hawaii. During the second half of the nineteenth century, American investors in the sugar industry gradually increased their control over the islands' economic and political life. In 1887 they arranged to overthrow the local rulers and establish a government more favorable to their interests. But in 1891 they suffered a setback, when the new queen, Liliuokalani, replaced the liberal constitution they had secured with one giving her extensive personal powers.
I guess I will over look the 1845 annexation of Texas, the 1898 annexation of Guam and Puerto Rico and the 1899 annexation of the Philippines as I understand the desire to suck up but if you are going to make a blanket statement like " they never annexed foreign countries" you should at least know that it is incorrect especially when you look at the "bare facts".

I know, but these were before current International laws came into existence. I think we can write a big book about annexations that happend more than 100 years ago.
 
That's delima, I know personally some of the best people who have strong moral consciences and values at hand in my nation's armed services. However My personal experiences with them and all the good things our nation has done can be tainted by only one bad experience. 1,000 Refugees receiving medical care in Tsunami stricken areas of the South Western Pacific won't sway the mind of the young Yemeni who just witnessed a hellfire missile vaporize some of his countrymen for leaning to radical ideals spurred partially from America's undeniable and ruthless addiction to fossil fuels.






Freedom, freedom... Freedom for Coke, Or Pespi, Freedom for Gas, or Gas and batteries, freedom for Samsung , Or LG, Freedom... It's how you see it, it's what you do with it,

Yes we have a higher quality of life, but where does that quality of life begin and freedom end? Is it true freedom or freedom at an expense? Our excess has to be paid for somewhere.

Or what it does for you... Freedom to spend, to consume, to burn through all viable assets this Earth has to offer, but mainly, to spend, to siphon your wealth for an endless viscous cycle that spawns the cruelest treatment of this Planet's downtrodden to continue this consolidation of wealth. This is the most common counter point to that comment.

And you know me and counter points. It doesn't matter as much as what one thinks of themselves when considering a global scale, only what the world in this codependent exchange thinks. When you live along these lines anyway.



So when ever is a dictatorship a viable alternative? What about in your own country when many fail to announce a better alternative to social trends is it okay with you to have the jackboot pressed against your back?

To each their own I guess?

But not me, and not many of this planet's residents. True, in this modern era of globalization and financial threats and warfare, the U.S. has done the incredible, never before has so efficiently has any superpower ever exercised financial ruin to a nation's economy as such a powerful tool to change geo political events.

Never has any super power ever exercised such global reach.... A base in the middle of the Indian ocean for example that can house aircraft capable of striking the entire hemisphere.

Why threaten with such global reach? When your country only covers a small percentage of the surface of the globe? Why do this? Why have over 700 military installations all around the globe? And a corresponding military command for each part of the planet? What other nation does this on such a scale?

Bases placed at choke points for trade and resource gathering/processing around the world?

Common logic says one thing, If I were an alien stumbling upon humanity for the first time I'd I assume this, the U.S. burns through he lion's share of everything in a vicious never ending machine that is mass consumerism , a fraction of the populace expending a majority of the resources.

Why invade when you can buyout? Why commit when you can sway the table, because as they say, the house always wins.

That is why I asked this question, that Is the thread in my mind, and what the world thought about that is what I wanted to know as the author of this thread.

Is this a nationality issue? Or just the continuation of our species' very nature? Psychology or politics?:|

If the US would change into a country according to your taste, another country will step in the US footsteps. The world will be worse off if Russia or China , or even much worse a fanatic religious state, becomes the next superpower. I don't know about you, but I left Belgium because I didn't like it there anymore. And if I don't like Spain anymore I move to another country. Panama seems to be a good choice right now according to CNN.
 
I know, but these were before current International laws came into existence. I think we can write a big book about annexations that happend more than 100 years ago.

As I pointed out making blanket claims, specifically the comment "never annexed" opens your argument to any instances of annexation as it is not bound by a timeframe.
 
Annexed during Age of Expansion: Republic of West Florida, Republic of Texas, Bear Flag Republic(California), Not sure how you would classify the Mormon "State of Deseret" if it was an independant exisiting entity.
 
I love my country, just not empire.

People say that is the only way to live happily as we do in this world I beg to differ. There is always another way.

As for somebody replacing the U.S., if our civilization last that long that is inevitable, it is foolish to consider our current society as the final step and peak of human civilization. As if we are the perfected form of society or some kind of end result. I feel that trend allot in the way some politicians and academics alike describe this day and age.

Today people strive for democracy, what form of idealism will tomorrow strive for ? Or maybe what replaces the U.S. as the dominant influence on the world today may not be a flag, but new wave of idealism? That's if human history has any influence on the matter.

Just in an uncertain future I'd love and would strive for an sustainable and secure America, despite the certain cutbacks my country will most likely have to make on the world scene sometime this century. And not see the U.S. a crippled and hollowed out empire because we cling to past of what brought us to our precarious place in the world today.

Be the first in human history to scale back quietly and do so in a way to secures a more fulfilling future for the our grandchildren tomorrow. Give them something to be humble but still proud about.
 
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The fact is, Americans are lazy and willfully ignorant when it comes to these things. They want to say they give a crap about the feed the children or the ozone...but when push comes to shove and it's time to annie up, they all of a sudden forget. Or plead ignorance. Our own countrymen want to live in a lifestyle unfparalleled in human history and act like it doesn't have an effect elsewhere in the world. They don't want to know where or how all this "crap" was aquired because that would mean admitting that we're not perfect and that the world in fact does not revolve around us...

I'm really getting sick of policing up the world and getting kicked in the teethe every time we do it...or it is done half a$$ed so we have to keep going back time and again due to politics. I'd prefer it if we left the rest the world to their problems, scaled back our consumerism, and totally messed up anyone who decides to tango with us...nothing more and nothing less. That might mean some bad people take over in Iran, Nicaragua, etc...so what...let their people get fed up with it and overthrow them. If they mess with us, then we can go and crush them...pre-emptive war is much more complicated and nasty.
 
In fact,American scientist did many contribution to the human civilisation after world war 2! like invent computer and internet!like clone and DNA technology,like space technology made a great advance! new energy and new material technology!

Only I can said ,the scientist of United state very great ! But the politicians of USA very dirty and rubblish.Like the Bush!
 
In fact,American scientist did many contribution to the human civilisation after world war 2! like invent computer and internet!like clone and DNA technology,like space technology made a great advance! new energy and new material technology!

Only I can said ,the scientist of United state very great ! But the politicians of USA very dirty and rubblish.Like the Bush!


Yes, very dirty rubbish like the bush...
 
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