What Caused Our Economic Crisis?
We Americans think we can solve any problem by throwing enough money at it. Look at our Education System for example. This bill in a knee jerk reaction to a crisis just dump money on it and it will go away.
More money is not always the solution.
I look forward to see what happens next.
Rewarding stupitity and greed is never a good idea.
What Would Reagan Do?
More money is not always the solution.
I look forward to see what happens next.
Rewarding stupitity and greed is never a good idea.
What Would Reagan Do?
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
I think you have picked the wrong horse on this one because the ONLY solution is to throw money at it and lots of it, does this mean you shouldn't reform your monetary systems or punish those that screwed up no it doesn't but you can do that at any stage right now you need to concentrate on stopping the slide which needs to be done quickly so as to prevent the solution being too little too late.
As for what will happen next well my guess is that on Thursday the bill will be passed because there is no more political mileage to be gained by rejecting it and your politicians will wander off patting themselves on the back and claiming victory.
What would Reagan do?
Beats me but I am prepared to bet that it would involve saying "well" a lot.
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A Can of Man
Je suis aware
What would Reagan do... spend more money?
The Other Guy
Spam King
What money in our education system? If there was any less funding the schools would be giving money to the government.
What would Reagan Do?
Do remember that Bush went to the Ronald Reagan school of politics. These banks would be bailed out.
What money in our education system? If there was any less funding the schools would be giving money to the government.
Michigan ranked 13th nationally by spending an average $7,754 per student for schools last year, according to the National Education Association.
They were talking about 2003. Sounds like a lot of money to me?
Reagan would not be rushing down the socialist path.
Did you see the stock market today? There was a lot of buying going on, that means some one had credit! It means there is money out there and we are not going to fall in to a depression. It's just Wall Street Cool-Aid.
The Other Guy
Spam King
That would be interesting if I were in Michigan.
Where I stand right now my school is too small, has outdated textbooks, and students aren't getting any smarter. Teachers can't teach what students actually need to know anymore, because the government puts so much emphasis on standardized test scores. This means better test scores but generally stupider children.
Maybe it's not more funding that is needed, funding toward things more useful.
Topmaul;456708[quote said:Did you see the stock market today? There was a lot of buying going on, that means some one had credit! It means there is money out there and we are not going to fall in to a depression. It's just Wall Street Cool-Aid.
Yes, that is a little reassuring; but remember that those buyers have calculated and already built in the determination of the administration to get a positive second vote as quickly as possible this week.
A very different picture could well emerge if you get another dose of the same. Confidence is the key.
senojekips
Active member
It is my bet that no one will be punished and no really effective laws will be put in place to stop it happening again.
Large scale White collar crime is never punished effectively. Steal a thousand dollars and you go to prison, get a criminal record and your life is ruined, but if you steal a billion dollars, you get shifted sideways into a better paying job, and get paid millions of dollars for going. You reputation as a big money man is enhanced and even bigger corporations will head hunt you.
Where's the incentive?
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A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Life's funny isn't it?
5.56X45mm
Milforum Mac Daddy
Franklin Raines, Tim Howard and Jim Johnson
Do you know who they are?
Franklin Raines was Chairman and CEO at Fannie Mae. He was forced to resign when "severe irregularities" were found in Fannie Mae's accounting practices. Raines defended Fannie Mae's accounting practices despite evidence that concluded they were not proper. Raines left Fannie Mae with a 240 Million dollar "Golden Parachute." The Government filed suit against Raines, who was eventually ordered to return 50 million; that is a Net 190 Million he left with.
Tim Howard was the CFO at Fannie Mae. His claim to fame was that he "cooked the books" for personal gain. His accounting strategies increased his income bonuses. He resigned along with Raines; but his parachute was worth only 20 Million dollars.
Jim Johnson's resume will list experience as an executive at Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, and Fannie Mae. During an investigation into corruption and mismanagement, it was revealed that Fannie Mae misreported his compensation; in reality it was 14 Million dollars higher.
Franklin Raines, Tim Howard and Jim Johnson are crooks of the first order; they are also Barack Obama's Chief Financial Adviser. Franklin Raines, Tim Howard and Jim Johnson were complicit in the economic crisis we're in. They are part of the root cause. And Obama wants everybody to believe he's going to change America. The audacity of Obama to have a team of crooks should have voters questioning Obama's choices, not trying to figure out a way to spin away the truth. Jim Johnson has since resigned from Obama's campaign, but not after chairing the VP search and raising money for Obama.
His advisers were the foxes that had the key to the hen house and he wants you to believe he is the cure to America's ills. Franklin Raines, Tim Howard and Jim Johnson belong in prison, not on Obama's staff.
There MUST be an FBI investiagtion into this matter. Dodd, Franks and Raines need to serve time in prison!
They crucified the CEOS of Enron and this is 100 times worse than Enron.
More Info on these crooks
Do you know who they are?
Franklin Raines was Chairman and CEO at Fannie Mae. He was forced to resign when "severe irregularities" were found in Fannie Mae's accounting practices. Raines defended Fannie Mae's accounting practices despite evidence that concluded they were not proper. Raines left Fannie Mae with a 240 Million dollar "Golden Parachute." The Government filed suit against Raines, who was eventually ordered to return 50 million; that is a Net 190 Million he left with.
Tim Howard was the CFO at Fannie Mae. His claim to fame was that he "cooked the books" for personal gain. His accounting strategies increased his income bonuses. He resigned along with Raines; but his parachute was worth only 20 Million dollars.
Jim Johnson's resume will list experience as an executive at Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, and Fannie Mae. During an investigation into corruption and mismanagement, it was revealed that Fannie Mae misreported his compensation; in reality it was 14 Million dollars higher.
Franklin Raines, Tim Howard and Jim Johnson are crooks of the first order; they are also Barack Obama's Chief Financial Adviser. Franklin Raines, Tim Howard and Jim Johnson were complicit in the economic crisis we're in. They are part of the root cause. And Obama wants everybody to believe he's going to change America. The audacity of Obama to have a team of crooks should have voters questioning Obama's choices, not trying to figure out a way to spin away the truth. Jim Johnson has since resigned from Obama's campaign, but not after chairing the VP search and raising money for Obama.
His advisers were the foxes that had the key to the hen house and he wants you to believe he is the cure to America's ills. Franklin Raines, Tim Howard and Jim Johnson belong in prison, not on Obama's staff.
There MUST be an FBI investiagtion into this matter. Dodd, Franks and Raines need to serve time in prison!
They crucified the CEOS of Enron and this is 100 times worse than Enron.
More Info on these crooks
senojekips
Active member
When are the legislators going to enact laws making it illegal to keep profits of crime. As all of this money and as sizeable part of his salary was earned in the commission of a crime it should all be seized or the perpetrators kept in to prison until it is repaid.
The Other Guy
Spam King
I estimate it will be done circa 2100.
I would not be surprised to see a new rise in socialism with this crisis and the number of greedy CEOs with the opportunity of getting off scot-free.
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
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I am not sure I trust the rantings of bloggers any more than I trust politicians however I do trust Snopes to research their work so...
Claim:[FONT="] Three former Fannie Mae executives are linked to the Obama campaign as chief economic advisors.
[/FONT]Status:False.[FONT="]
[/FONT]Origins:[FONT="] When one of the hottest issues of a presidential campaign is the meltdown of the mortgage lending industry and the collapse of the economy, a candidate's having economic advisors on his staff who are strongly associated with the system and practices that helped create the current mess likely wouldn't sit well with the public. That's the premise of thie above-quoted e-mail, which claims that three men formerly associated with the Federal National Mortgage Association (commonly known as "Fannie Mae") are now serving as "chief economic advisors" with the presidential campaign of Barack Obama. However, although at least some of these men have had connections to the Obama campaign at one time or another, none of them has (or apparently ever had) ongoing roles with that campaign as chief economic advisors.
Franklin Raines, who formerly headed the budget office for the Clinton administration, became the first black CEO of a Fortune 500 company when he took over at Fannie Mae" in 1999. Raines, [/FONT]
[FONT="]who had earned $20 million in salary and bonuses from Fannie Mae in 2003, resigned from his CEO position in 2004 after regulators determined that the company had violated accounting rules and created an illusory $9 billion in past profit.
Raines has had some dealings with the Obama campaign, but he never held any actual position within the campaign, and his involvement with it was not nearly as substantial as implied here. As the Washington Post reported when a McCain campaign commercial attempted to link Raines with the Democratic candidate, the whole substance of the connection between the two men was that Raines "had gotten a couple of calls from the Obama campaign" in which they talked about "general housing and economy issues."
Franklin Raines' predecessor, James A. Johnson, (former chief of staff to Vice President Walter F. Mondale), was CEO of Fannie Mae from 1991 to 1998. After Johnson left the company, regulators later discovered that Fannie Mae had engaged in fraudulent accounting practices in 1998 which manipulated its earnings so that executives could earn performance bonuses (up to $1.9 million in Johnson's case) they would not otherwise have been entitled to.
In May 2008, Senator Obama (who at the time was the Democratic Party's presumptive presidential nominee) tapped Johnson to lead the group that was vetting potential vice-presidential running mates for him. Johnson resigned from that position a month later after news accounts surfaced that he had received more than $2 million in home loans at below average market rates from Countrywide Financial (a partner of Fannie Mae).
Tim Howard, the former CFO (chief financial officer) of Fannie Mae, was caught up in the same accounting scandal that undid Franklin Raines, and (like Raines) resigned from the company in 2004. We haven't yet found any substantive connection between Tim Howard and the Obama campaign, however, much less any information supporting the claim that Howard is (or was) a "Chief Economic Advisor to Obama."
[/FONT]Last updated:[FONT="] 30 September 2008[/FONT]
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/fanniemae.asp
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perseus
Active member
The articles below confirm what I said about private political donations. First step to stop corruption and the sort of fiasco we have seen with the banks is to ensure parties are funded publicly and to restrict the subsequent salaries politicians are paid when moving out of politics. Politicians won't deal with city excesses if they are have a cushy job waiting for them there.
Critics were quick to attack Cameron for taking money from hedge funds. 'Now we see that the same hedge fund wolf pack who brought HBOS to its knees are bankrolling the Tory party,' said Lord Oakeshott, the Liberal Democrat Treasury spokesman. 'No wonder David Cameron and George Osborne wouldn't condemn short-selling or the hedge funds' disgraceful behaviour.'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/sep/28/marketturmoil.shares
The Conservative party have taken large donations from hedge-fund managers whose firms made vast sums of money from taking bets in some of Britain’s crisis-hit banks. David Cameron, the Tory leader, has accepted almost £2m from hedge-fund managers who took bets on banks such as Halifax Bank of Scotland, which was forced into an emergency rescue by Lloyds TSB, and Bradford & Bingley, which has just been nationalised.
The practise of taking down bets on shares, known as short-selling, has now been temporarily banned by the Financial Services Authority, the City watchdog, for all bank stocks. However Cameron and his Shadow Chancellor George Osborne refused to criticize this practice earlier in September.
A string of the hedge funds have been offered membership of an exclusive dining club reserved for backers who give £50,000 or more to the Conservative party. Cameron has given small dinner parties for members of the so-called “Leader’s Group”, where the donors get to chat in private to the Conservative leader. Mr Cameron denied he was steering clear of criticizing bankers and hedge fund managers because they contributed heavily to Tory coffers.
“They don’t have any influence on my policy at all”, he said. Of course they don’t David. Whats that…Sorry for the interuption, I just noticed a pig flying past my window.
The disclosure that the Tories are being funded by wealthy businessmen(which political party isn’t these days), whose firms aim to make huge profits by betting that the value of shares will fall, will not help Cameron’s efforts to persuade voters that he is the man to guide the country through an economic downturn.
Six leading hedge-fund managers are eligible to be members of Mr Cameron’s Leader’s Group, which entitles members to personal access to the Conservative leader, including small private dinners.What makes it all the more hilarious is Cameron said in March 2006 he was setting out to reform his party’s funding policies, to clean up politics and that he would ‘expunge the impression, now deep in the public mind, that influence, access and honours can be bought by wealthy institutions… and individuals’.
Its no wonder he has refused to blame greedy City practices for the current financial crisis. While a hell of a lot of the blame can be levelled at Politicians, the blame must also be levelled at those individuals, organisations, Hedge funds etc, who “buy influence” over political parties in the form of donations.
So with the frightening possibilty that Mr Cameron will become the next prime minister, he had better saddle up and get ready to ride the same economic policies from current and previous Governments that got us into this mess in the first place
http://cantaffordtodie.wordpress.com/
Critics were quick to attack Cameron for taking money from hedge funds. 'Now we see that the same hedge fund wolf pack who brought HBOS to its knees are bankrolling the Tory party,' said Lord Oakeshott, the Liberal Democrat Treasury spokesman. 'No wonder David Cameron and George Osborne wouldn't condemn short-selling or the hedge funds' disgraceful behaviour.'
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/sep/28/marketturmoil.shares
The Conservative party have taken large donations from hedge-fund managers whose firms made vast sums of money from taking bets in some of Britain’s crisis-hit banks. David Cameron, the Tory leader, has accepted almost £2m from hedge-fund managers who took bets on banks such as Halifax Bank of Scotland, which was forced into an emergency rescue by Lloyds TSB, and Bradford & Bingley, which has just been nationalised.
The practise of taking down bets on shares, known as short-selling, has now been temporarily banned by the Financial Services Authority, the City watchdog, for all bank stocks. However Cameron and his Shadow Chancellor George Osborne refused to criticize this practice earlier in September.
A string of the hedge funds have been offered membership of an exclusive dining club reserved for backers who give £50,000 or more to the Conservative party. Cameron has given small dinner parties for members of the so-called “Leader’s Group”, where the donors get to chat in private to the Conservative leader. Mr Cameron denied he was steering clear of criticizing bankers and hedge fund managers because they contributed heavily to Tory coffers.
“They don’t have any influence on my policy at all”, he said. Of course they don’t David. Whats that…Sorry for the interuption, I just noticed a pig flying past my window.
The disclosure that the Tories are being funded by wealthy businessmen(which political party isn’t these days), whose firms aim to make huge profits by betting that the value of shares will fall, will not help Cameron’s efforts to persuade voters that he is the man to guide the country through an economic downturn.
Six leading hedge-fund managers are eligible to be members of Mr Cameron’s Leader’s Group, which entitles members to personal access to the Conservative leader, including small private dinners.What makes it all the more hilarious is Cameron said in March 2006 he was setting out to reform his party’s funding policies, to clean up politics and that he would ‘expunge the impression, now deep in the public mind, that influence, access and honours can be bought by wealthy institutions… and individuals’.
Its no wonder he has refused to blame greedy City practices for the current financial crisis. While a hell of a lot of the blame can be levelled at Politicians, the blame must also be levelled at those individuals, organisations, Hedge funds etc, who “buy influence” over political parties in the form of donations.
So with the frightening possibilty that Mr Cameron will become the next prime minister, he had better saddle up and get ready to ride the same economic policies from current and previous Governments that got us into this mess in the first place
http://cantaffordtodie.wordpress.com/
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The man responsible for Britain's financial crisis, Gordon Brown, our Socialist Prime Minister and for 10 years Chancellor of the Exchequer, in control of all things financial, has struck again with his latest cabinet re-shuffle. After a hierarchy at cabinet level of ex-communists and Trots, take a look at his latest inroductions.
"Arise, Lord Sleaze: Brown resurrects Peter Mandelson ... the disgraced Prince of Darkness
Last updated at 1:20 AM on 04th October 2008 dailymail.
Gordon Brown hauled Labour back to its worst days of sleaze after he brought Peter Mandelson back for a jaw-dropping third job in the Cabinet.
The return of the double-disgraced 'Prince of Darkness' in a reshuffle to address the economic crisis stunned and horrified Westminster.
The Prime Minister's claim that the return of Mr Mandelson - who will take a peerage to serve as Business Secretary in the Lords - was 'in the national interest' was met with incredulity.
It capped an extraordinary day in which Mr Brown appeared to have put his future in the hands of his biggest enemy in politics with a striking reordering of his team that marked a victory for Tony Blair and his allies.
He gambled on Mr Mandelson's strong business credentials and keen political instincts to bring some firepower to his weakened government.
And familiar faces such as Margaret Beckett were recalled in an 'all hands to the pumps' effort to stem the Tory tide and avoid a General Election wipeout.
The reshuffle featured the return of another Government figure linked to sleaze in the past.
Lord Drayson, who returns as Science Minister from a year off racing motor cars, ran into controversy in 2002 after his Powderject company was granted a £32million contract to provide flu vaccines just months after he made a £50,000 donation to Labour.
And the appointment of new City Minister Paul Myners raised eyebrows. He is a director of GLG, one of the biggest hedge funds in the world, which has the largest short position in Bradford&Bingley, having sold short tens of millions of shares in the troubled bank.
.
Third coming: Peter Mandelson back outside Number 10 today after being invited to become Business Secretary
.Mr Mandelson had been Trade Secretary for barely six months when in December 1998 he was forced to quit over a secret loan of £373,000 from his ministerial colleague Geoffrey Robinson.
The money was used to buy an expensive house in Notting Hill and Mr Mandelson was compromised because his department -Trade and Industry - was investigating Mr Robinson's business dealings.
Tony Blair brought him back in October 1999, as Northern Ireland Secretary, but he was forced to quit a second time in January 2001."
"Arise, Lord Sleaze: Brown resurrects Peter Mandelson ... the disgraced Prince of Darkness
Last updated at 1:20 AM on 04th October 2008 dailymail.
Gordon Brown hauled Labour back to its worst days of sleaze after he brought Peter Mandelson back for a jaw-dropping third job in the Cabinet.
The return of the double-disgraced 'Prince of Darkness' in a reshuffle to address the economic crisis stunned and horrified Westminster.
The Prime Minister's claim that the return of Mr Mandelson - who will take a peerage to serve as Business Secretary in the Lords - was 'in the national interest' was met with incredulity.
It capped an extraordinary day in which Mr Brown appeared to have put his future in the hands of his biggest enemy in politics with a striking reordering of his team that marked a victory for Tony Blair and his allies.
He gambled on Mr Mandelson's strong business credentials and keen political instincts to bring some firepower to his weakened government.
And familiar faces such as Margaret Beckett were recalled in an 'all hands to the pumps' effort to stem the Tory tide and avoid a General Election wipeout.
The reshuffle featured the return of another Government figure linked to sleaze in the past.
Lord Drayson, who returns as Science Minister from a year off racing motor cars, ran into controversy in 2002 after his Powderject company was granted a £32million contract to provide flu vaccines just months after he made a £50,000 donation to Labour.
And the appointment of new City Minister Paul Myners raised eyebrows. He is a director of GLG, one of the biggest hedge funds in the world, which has the largest short position in Bradford&Bingley, having sold short tens of millions of shares in the troubled bank.
.
Third coming: Peter Mandelson back outside Number 10 today after being invited to become Business Secretary
.Mr Mandelson had been Trade Secretary for barely six months when in December 1998 he was forced to quit over a secret loan of £373,000 from his ministerial colleague Geoffrey Robinson.
The money was used to buy an expensive house in Notting Hill and Mr Mandelson was compromised because his department -Trade and Industry - was investigating Mr Robinson's business dealings.
Tony Blair brought him back in October 1999, as Northern Ireland Secretary, but he was forced to quit a second time in January 2001."
perseus
Active member
Del Boy You are showing an irrational political bias. Everyone knows that Britain is a pawn in the game of globalisation. To solve the crisis you need to get rid of the short term 'free market' mentality that has become the main religion. Capitalism has been called into question and neither Labour or the Conservatives have any intention of challenging it, so you can rest soundly in your bed.
I totally agree with respect to Mandelson. He is the best man the Tories never had. He represents just abut everything despicable about politics, the left hate him.
I totally agree with respect to Mandelson. He is the best man the Tories never had. He represents just abut everything despicable about politics, the left hate him.
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senojekips
Active member
I think maybe you missed a zero there somewhere.
Politicians of any leaning are not eager to cripple the goose that lays their golden eggs. Meanwhile the workers just have to feed the goose with our tax dollars.
