What are the benefits of having an automatic loader? - Page 2




 
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October 31st, 2004  
rocco
 
brits, us, israel dont use em... thats eneugh for me. probably auto loader isnt as effective as a well trained loader ATM.... but in the future...
November 5th, 2004  
f14peter
 

Topic: To somewhat collate the responses


A tank with an autoloader has these advantages . . .

- One less crewman to feed, clothe, train. In a large force, such as the former Soviet Union/Russia, this can really add up to a huge savings in cost.

- The ability to make a smaller tank (And therefore a smaller target). Notice that Soviet/Russian tanks are traditionally smaller than their Western counterparts. This can also be transfered into more of the weight of a given-sized tank being dedicated to armor, fuel, equipment, etc.

A tank with an autoloader has these disadvantages . . .

- It would appear that they have a slower rate of fire than manually-loaded guns. This is due to the ammo type having to be selected, on earlier designs the gun tube had to be elevated, the carousel spun around, and the shell (and on some designs the propellant casing) mechanically shoved into the breech.

- Although I believe the newer designs have addressed this, autoloading designs must have the ammuntion in a position easily accessed by the mechanism. This lead to the deadly carousel arrangement where the ammo was stored in the floor of the tank, exposed to the fighting compartment.

- An autoloader is a mechancal device devised by man, and therefore just as likely to fail/break down as any other mechanical device.

- One less crewman also means there's one less crewman to help maintain the tank. I believe if you ask a tanker, he/she'd say that a good portion of their day is spent working on the tank itself. 3 instead of 4 crewmembers means the work must be spread among less people.

- Undoubtedly addressed in newer designs, but it's my understanding that the earlier versions of the Soviet/Russian autoloader could easily grab the hand, arm, or clothes of anyone who happened to be too close.
November 6th, 2004  
Animal Mother
 

Topic: Re: To somewhat collate the responses


Quote:
Originally Posted by f14peter
- Undoubtedly addressed in newer designs, but it's my understanding that the earlier versions of the Soviet/Russian autoloader could easily grab the hand, arm, or clothes of anyone who happened to be too close.
From what i have learnt that is pretty mutch considered a myth, unless a crewman is really stupid of course. The bigges weakness of the carousel autoloader is that a projectile is always exposed in the turret. This leads to interesting side effects, like flying turrets when penetrated by rounds.
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November 6th, 2004  
texasrebel211
 

Topic: Re: To somewhat collate the responses


Quote:
Originally Posted by Animal Mother
Quote:
Originally Posted by f14peter
- Undoubtedly addressed in newer designs, but it's my understanding that the earlier versions of the Soviet/Russian autoloader could easily grab the hand, arm, or clothes of anyone who happened to be too close.
From what i have learnt that is pretty mutch considered a myth, unless a crewman is really stupid of course. The bigges weakness of the carousel autoloader is that a projectile is always exposed in the turret. This leads to interesting side effects, like flying turrets when penetrated by rounds.
Yup, during the first gulf war whenever we had a hit on one of their tanks with an Abrams the turret might fly 50ft up into the air.
January 19th, 2005  
EOD
 
It is less the projectiles then the propellant and the arrangement of the ammo inside the turret in a circle on the "outer inside".
Once a charge goes off it will iginte all others and tha is quite a lot of propellant - propelling not only projectiles but also turrets and the crew in it.

That's why the German Leopard 2 has its ammo all in single metal containers, if something is gonna burn or hit the fire extinguising sytem will take care of it - in the best case before it becomes more serious.the Russians gave away this chance and pay with the lifes of their crews.
The M1 Abrams has its ammo in the rear of the turret in a blast resistant compartment, when ammo is set afire tehre it will blow away the top cover on top of the roof and the crew and crew compartment will stay unharmed and it has prooven to be effective in Iraq.
There is an article with images in the internet by John P. Conway.
Do not have the URL anymore and do not know how to upload the file here. Propably someone finds it in the net again.
January 21st, 2005  
FO Seaman
 
 
I was in an Iraqi T-62 at Quantico captured by the Marines during the Gulf War, the auto-loader is an advantage and a disadvantage, on one hand you have one less man the other what happens when the round is caught and crush into the auto-loader, or your engine power is cut, or the gunners arm gets caught in it. Plus the tank is crowded with it and you must have an opening with a door, the door on the T-62 was 1 1/2 in. thick, what happens when a HEAT or HESH round hits the door?
January 21st, 2005  
Sexybeast
 
well...some new tanks use that auto loader and it works well..

i think the only problem of auto loader i ve known is that u got to adjust ur cannon back to straight line of ur tank body when u want to reload..

that is damn wasting time on the battlefield
January 21st, 2005  
FO Seaman
 
 
What about the door for them ejecting rounds?
January 21st, 2005  
Sexybeast
 
i think that can be solved with a larger body hull of tank,
or different design of auto loader...
the one japan produced Type-90 did a good job...despite the auto loader on it is said to be not too durable...5% of chance to have some sort of problem..
January 22nd, 2005  
FO Seaman
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexybeast
i think that can be solved with a larger body hull of tank,
or different design of auto loader...
the one japan produced Type-90 did a good job...despite the auto loader on it is said to be not too durable...5% of chance to have some sort of problem..
The MGS has an auto-loader and is having jamming and rounds caught in the loader.