Weapons To Israel.

It is normally courtesy to ask before landing aircraft laden with bombs at a busy civilian airport. Now what was America trying to prove, why not land these planes at an American Air Base in England. I wonder what America would say if British planes started to land at Kennedy Airport laden with all sorts of bombs with out even asking permission.
 
EagleHammer said:
And for the other thing I don't belive it have had the Name Israel true out History, The could have given them a Piece of Germany Instead of someone elses country.
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Brilliant! All of the Holocaust survivors would just love a piece of the country that just barely tried to exterminate them! That way, they can be right next door just in case the Germans want to have another go at it. Sorry, but I don’t think that the Jews would have gone for it. And no I’m not saying anything about the Germans being racist today, but I AM saying that the Jews in 1945 would have thought this suggestion was completely insane.

Englander2 said:
One cannot just turn the clock back to what used to be 3 thousand years ago, but the Israelis could return to the borders of 1948! Perhaps then we would have peace.
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You do realize that it was the Arabs who attacked first with those 1948 borders in place, don’t you?? You do realize that Hezbollah and Hamas are determined to drive Israel and its people from ALL of their land, right?? How on Earth would Israel “have peace” by giving up a bunch of land? All of that land they would be giving back was taken when the Arabs attacked and Israel counterattacked. The Arabs don’t seem to have a concept of peacefully co-existing with Israel, so why should the Israelis be the ones making concessions. No “peace agreement” with the Palestinians has hindered the extremists among the Palestinians from murder, bombing, and terrorism. If you ask me, the Israelis have only worsened their terrorist problem by giving in to world-wide pressure and working to give the Palestinians their own nation, etc. Why didn’t they do so before? Because they knew that the Palestinians would use an independent West Bank and Gaza Strip as a base from which to launch both military and terrorist attacks against Israel. The “peace process” thus far has proven this to be true. Israel gains nothing and only gets screwed.

Granted, the Palestinians are the ones that pretty much got screwed when the Nation of Israel was establish in the 1940’s, but rather than spouting all this BS about “If the USA gave up all its land … bla, bla, bla …” let’s be realistic. Israel holds the land that it holds. Yes, it held it anciently and then lost it. Pretty much every nation in Europe was forged on the bloody corpses of the former owners of those lands. If the creation of the State of Israel was a amoral mistake, it way to long ago to change it now. The Arab world has inflicted far worse on the Armenians, and there has been no justice done for them. Israel controls the borders that they control and if Israel owes the Palestinians land, then the Polish owe Germany A LOT of land and England needs to grant Wales and Scotland their independence. In the end, life ain’t necessarily fair.
 
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The US should give Israel all the weapons that they need because they are actually fighting the very same war.
The Palestinians have lost all their credibility after they elected Hamas into power and Lebanese should have kicked the terrorist scumbags out of their country before. Now the Israelis are taking care of that, and rightly so.
 
Now I qoute a TV Series Called E-Ring (I Think) : One Man's Terrorist Is another man's Freedom Fighter, Or SomeThing like that.
 
EagleHammer said:
Now I qoute a TV Series Called E-Ring (I Think) : One Man's Terrorist Is another man's Freedom Fighter, Or SomeThing like that.
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And that notion is completely wrong!
As long as you don't understand that those Moslem fanatics hate you as much as the Americans and just a little bit less than the Jews, then those people would be getting your support.
Until they will need something FROM YOU....
 
Italian Guy


The US should give Israel all the weapons that they need because they are actually fighting the very same war.

1. While the US might not like Hamas, we are not at war with them. Arming one side might be seen as an Act of War by the other. This is exactly what happened during the Battle of the Atlantic 1940. I really dont think we want to worry about Hamas when Iran's Hezbollah, al Qaida, and the Taliban are still around.

The Palestinians have lost all their credibility after they elected Hamas into power.

2. This is the same problem with Chavez in Venezuela. In both cases we have governments that are unfriendly to the US, but were democratically elected. As irritating as they might be, It would be an enormously damaging to America's image (the little thats left) to be seen trying to undermine the very type of Democracy we are trying to create.

and Lebanese should have kicked the terrorist scumbags out of their country before.

I agree that would be best. But how could Lebanon do that? They have no military. Hezbollahs fighters are more numerous, much better trained and equipped than the Lebanese Army.

http://www.cfr.org/publication/11135/#7

Now the Israelis are taking care of that, and rightly so.

It would seem that they are more likely unifying all the Arabs against Isreal, including the Christian Arabs. At somepoint Isreal will lose this standoff. Because America will grow tired of supporting them without peace and the fact that there are 6 million Isrealis, and 300 Million Arabs.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2006-07-30-qana_x.htm
 
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So basically this is what has happened in the middle east.

1500 b.c. Israel founded.
1000 b.c. Babylonians conquer Israel
800 b.c. Persians conquers land that now comprises Israel.
500 b.c. Alexander conquers Persians.
200 b.c. Romans conquer Palestine.
800 a.d. Muslims capture Jerusalem.
800 a.d. - 1300 a.d. Jerusalem changes hands several times between Muslims and Christians.
1800's - 1918 a.d. Britain somehow or another aquires Palestine along with other parts of the Middle East.
1948 a.d. British (the current rulers of Palestine) break up Palestine into two nations, Israel and Palestine, land distribution approx. 55% for Israel, 45% Palestinians.
1948 a.d. Six Arab nations attack Israel, Israel facing odds greater than 10-1 kicks the holy :cen: out of the Arabs.
1948 a.d. Israel punishes Arabs for stupidity, incompetence and incredibly bad luck, redraws lines of the British Mandate so Israel can better defend herself.
1948 a.d. Believing that the Arabs will eventually destroy the Jews, Palestinians CHOOSE to leave lands of Israel, West Bank, Gaza Strip and Golan Heights.
1948 a.d. to Present. Israel fends off numerous attacks by Syria, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabie, Lebanon, Jordan and Syria and each time gives the Arabs another swift kick in the balls.
1948 to Present. After seeing numerous Arab attacks fail, Palestinians realize their own stupidity in leaving their homes but refuse to acknowledge said stupidity, whine and complain that the United States is the real power behind Israel, not the Israeli's own competence in dealing with the incompetent dictators that whip the Arabs into a frenzy before leading them into suicide attacks.
1948 to Present. Palestinians and Arabs repeatedly attack Israeli civilians while simultaneously :cen:ing when Israeli bombs kill civilians behind which the Palestinians and Arabs hide.
1948 to Present. United States allows Israel to beat the hell out of Arabs nations who repeatedly attack Israel in disorganized and chaotic fashions.
1948 to Present. Not believing their own stupidity to be the true cause, Arabs and Palestinians continue to blame United States for the "suffering" of the Palestinians as a result of their decision to leave their homes to live in Arab nations that don't have a strong enough economy so support 900,000 Palestinian refugees. Thousands die but this is of course the fault of the United States, yet again.
1948 to Present. SSDD. Palestinian suicide bombers kills dozens of Israeli civilians, Israel responds by bombing military targets in nations harboring said suicide bombers.
1987 - Present. Two times a week I see news reports of "renewed" (continuing) fighting between Arabs and Israeli's.
 
boris116 said:
And that notion is completely wrong!
As long as you don't understand that those Moslem fanatics hate you as much as the Americans and just a little bit less than the Jews, then those people would be getting your support.
Until they will need something FROM YOU....
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I just mean that if The States would bomb my country, and overtrow the Government, i might kill American Soldiers, so it seems that those called Terrorists don't have a Goverment that tells the world that there doing the right thing, while United States kill People By using Teknology Instead of RoadSide bombs, and that their Government is clever, So that they can Convince the rest of the world they are fighting for the right cause.

So what i mean is that i understand them.
 
Here's the difference between the United States and these terrorist sons of :cen:.

The United States Government goes about making war in a manner that involves as much, if not more effort towards not harming civilians as we do killing the enemy. Terrorists go around trying to kill as many civilians as possible. Civilians are killed by American bombs when something goes wrong with the weapon itself and it misses its intended target. Civilians are killed by terrorist bombs when everything the terrorist do happen as planned.

If the Arabs and Palestinians wanted to make peace with Israel it wouldn't be that hard, all they would have to do is quit preaching for the destruction of Israel, sit down, and actually talk to the Israeli's about how to live together peacefully, it's not like Israel hasn't been willing to hear offers in the past, but if the Arabs and Palestinians betray their word again and attack Israel, Israel will once again be forced to show them who holds the real power in that region of the world.
 
It's even simpler than you posted ... all Israel's enemies have to do is to LEAVE ISRAEL ALONE and STOP ATTACKING THEM.


PERIOD
 
Damien435 said:
If the Arabs and Palestinians wanted to make peace with Israel it wouldn't be that hard, all they would have to do is quit preaching for the destruction of Israel, sit down, and actually talk to the Israeli's about how to live together peacefully, it's not like Israel hasn't been willing to hear offers in the past, but if the Arabs and Palestinians betray their word again and attack Israel, Israel will once again be forced to show them who holds the real power in that region of the world.
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Thats true, but its only half the picture. While its true that certain Palestineans dont wish to negoiciate, there is also a small but influencial group of Jewish Extremists who also refuse to negiociate and who view the arabs as garbage. These are particularly true within the settlements. There have been Isreal Prime ministers in the past who simply refused to deal with the Arabs, Begin, and Yitzak Shamir were total hardliners, and Benyamin Netenyahu was certainly no dove either. Even a younger Ariel Sharon was a firestarter this what he said in 1980...

"On his settlement policy, Sharon said while addressing a meeting of the Tsomet Party: "Everybody has to move, run and grab as many (Palestinian) hilltops as they can to enlarge the (Jewish) settlements because everything we take now will stay ours... Everything we don't grab will go to them." (Agence France Presse, 15 November 1998.)"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariel_Sharon


So while in the past few years that might be true, it hasnt been always the case.
 
Their roots go back continuously for better than 3,300 years ... no other country can make that claim.
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Maybe the Australian Aboriginals perhaps.
You know, what with going back 40,000 years, and to this day still following the same cultures and traditions.
 
And considering much points to the African origin of homosapies I bet there are some roots that go back alot futher.
 
AlexKall said:
And considering much points to the African origin of homosapies I bet there are some roots that go back alot futher.
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That was a little before any people or Homo Sapiens started thinking about whose country was whose. I think written history is more along the line of who was where when. Of course, archaelogical evidence is needed to back up claims.
 
Missileer said:
That was a little before any people or Homo Sapiens started thinking about whose country was whose. I think written history is more along the line of who was where when. Of course, archaelogical evidence is needed to back up claims.
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Haha true, possibly true about Australia aswell heh
 
mmarsh said:
Thats true, but its only half the picture. While its true that certain Palestineans dont wish to negoiciate, there is also a small but influencial group of Jewish Extremists who also refuse to negiociate and who view the arabs as garbage. These are particularly true within the settlements. There have been Isreal Prime ministers in the past who simply refused to deal with the Arabs, Begin, and Yitzak Shamir were total hardliners, and Benyamin Netenyahu was certainly no dove either. Even a younger Ariel Sharon was a firestarter this what he said in 1980...
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Why don't you go out and say it, you support Hezbolla don't you?

This is such a one sided statement thats its hard to believe your not either totally biased or simply ignorant of what is truly going on in Middle East.

You mention how a few Jews treat the Arabs as garbage, yet you fail to mention the majority of the Muslim world looks to Israel with contempt and views the Jews vermin and a source of evil in this world.

How are you even going to negotiate with people like that who are bascily looking for any excuse at conflict and the destruction of Israel. Who are simply using the Palestinians (who they don't even care for) as leverage for this end purpose.

So you basicly expect Israel to give in to people whose ultimate aim is to see Israels extinction in order to fullfiil the words of Mohamed.

Here is a poll of how Muslim countries feel about Jews, (this poll pre-dates the current conflict in Lebanon so can't say that is the reason for this, it was this way long before it started), you have no idea how much hate for Israel there is in the Middle East, for nothing more than simply existing.





Muslim Views of Jews

...a large-scale attitudinal survey conducted by The Pew Research Center in 2006, puts the cards on the table when it comes to Muslim views of Jews.

The study revealed endemic anti-Jewish sentiment in the Muslim world.

Percentage of Muslims with Unfavorable Views of Jews:
  • Jordan - 100 percent
  • Lebanon - 99 percent
  • Egypt - 98 percent
  • Morocco - 88 percent
  • Indonesia - 76 percent
  • Pakistan - 74 percent
  • Turkey - 60 percent
http://judaism.about.com/od/americanworldjewry/a/muslimviews.htm
 
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Gladius

Careful Gladius, that first comment is very close to slander. I never once mentioned any support for Hezbollah, please don't suggest that I did.

Its not a one-sided statement, as I said its the OTHER SIDE OF THE PICTURE. No war is completely one sided, and I am sorry to have to tell you this, but the Isrealis do share responibility in this Middle Eastern mess. They are not completely blameless as you suggest.

I am well aware that Jews are not liked in the Muslim world, but that in no way means that all the muslims want to see Isreal Destroyed. If you believe that, then you've swallowed the propaganda of the Isreali Far right. Like I said, there are two sides of every coin. Most muslims wish to live in peace with Isreal (aka the two state solution).

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/12493

There are Muslims that would like to kill Jews, there are Jews who like to kill Arabs. Dr. Baruch Goldstien for example. The JDL is another extemist group. The JDL is listed as a terrorist group by the FBI.

So there are extremists/fundimentalists on both sides...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baruch_Goldstein
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JDL

Muslims are very protective of one another, if they see Islam being threatened by non-muslims they will react, justly or unjustly that is their nature. Just look at the Danish cartoons scandals for proof. Most arnt as anti-semitic (or anti Danish) as the are protective of Islam.

At the same time, I won't deny that their are those such as Iran that use the Palestine Issue as to further their agenda. So the answer to your question is some truly are concerned by the Palstinean and those that exploit it, like most things in politics...

The fact remains this, there have times where both Isreal and the Palestineans have refused to negociate with each other. As of present, its Hamas thats the problem, but there have been times before, espically 10 years ago under Likud leadership where its been the Isrealis who refused to deal. As I showed you in Sharon's infamous remarks above...
 
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The two-state solution is to reduce Israel to indefensable thin strip of land. Who are you kidding, if you don't think this is a step to reduce Israel to eventual extinction.

All muslims do NOT want to destroy Israel. But the Influence that does want to destroy Israel is so common and prevasive in the Muslim world that there is no getting away from it. This mentality is so engrained that it always filters its way to Muslim policy towards the eventualy destroying Israel. This is not Jewish extremist propaganda this is reality.

The radical Islamic influence is too strong to counter for any peaceful solution. The only way to deal with this is to get rid of the radical influence, which is not going to happen unless there is a region wide democratization of new ideas and thinking.

Palestine will get a state there will be peace for a few years. Then the Islamic radical influence which is so prevalent will rear itself again and find other excuses to start conflict with Israel. Its all the same story.

Your naive if you ever think, if Israel would give in now and give them what they want that will be the end of the conflict. Sure, and when the Europe gave Hitler a piece of Checkoslovakia he was content and he never bothered anyone again.
 
The two-state solution is to reduce Israel to indefensable thin strip of land. Who are you kidding, if you don't think this is a step to reduce Israel to eventual extinction.

Most Isrealis AND Palstineans wouldnt agree with that. The 2 State solution means just that, 2 independent countries. This poll in 2002 conducted suggested 44% of Palestineans.

http://www.chicagopeacenow.org/new-poll.html

All muslims do NOT want to destroy Israel. But the Influence that does want to destroy Israel is so common and prevasive in the Muslim world that there is no getting away from it. This mentality is so engrained that it always filters its way to Muslim policy towards the eventualy destroying Israel. This is not Jewish extremist propaganda this is reality.

The extremist mentality is vocal and gets too much media coverage but it still remains small.

The radical Islamic influence is too strong to counter for any peaceful solution. The only way to deal with this is to get rid of the radical influence, which is not going to happen unless there is a region wide democratization of new ideas and thinking.

That is precisely what they want you to think. Thats one of the reasons for terror attacks, to make you believe that they are more powerful than they really are. Remember the IRA, they thought they were the top dog in Northern Ireland until the people there got sick of the endless bloodshed and commanded them to negiociate with the British. Fundimentalist are powerless if they dont have public support. Which is why they hate to negociate. Negociation robs fundimentalists of their power, which is why the resort to violence in order to keep the hatred alive.

Palestine will get a state there will be peace for a few years. Then the Islamic radical influence which is so prevalent will rear itself again and find other excuses to start conflict with Israel. Its all the same story.

Not if all issues are worked out. The ordinary Palestineans are just as fed up of the violence as the Isrealis. I remind you that during the Arafat-Barack negiociations there was over a year and a half of calm.

Your naive if you ever think, if Israel would give in now and give them what they want that will be the end of the conflict. Sure, and when the Europe gave Hitler a piece of Checkoslovakia he was content and he never bothered anyone again.

That Anology doesnt work. Czechoslovakia was never part of Germany, not even the Sudatenland was. Hitler made a land grab pure and simple. Here the situation is reversed, the Isrealis grabbed land that didnt belong to them in 1967 from the Palestineans. The Palestineans want it back in order to form a new country. Will it end the conflict completely and immediatly? No. Not for at least a decade or two. But it would be a hell of a step in the right direction. Just at the misery the Isrealis have gotten for trying to keep it. If the Isrealis and Palestineans want peace they will have to sit down at the bargining table. Everybody knows this, even the terrorists.
 
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