war for oil

March 24th, 2005  

Topic: war for oil

before you all jump off the deep end...

i am actually trying to debunk the "blood for oil" argument used by protesters over here. as you all know i was very much against the war in iraq, however i don't believe that this "blood for oil" argument stacks up.

whats the oil production for iraq (both now and the potential)


how much fuel is the US burning keeping an army running

can anybody help?
March 24th, 2005  
A Can of Man
Chewie, I think this is a great idea because this is exactly what I've been trying to say about the whole thing.
Not just the oil coming out vs the oil being used in the war, but the sheer amount of money that goes into a military operation like this compared to the benefits of getting oil the hard way when it's so much easier and cheaper to do it by bribing Saddam Hussein and his buddies.
Basically guarantee his power as long as he supplies oil.

If this war was indeed about oil and some people were too optimistic about how things would go, then I'd say they got screwed and I'm glad they did because now all that's left to do is fight the good fight.
March 24th, 2005  
Fossil Fuels, it's the black blood that keeps the economy alive.

When it comes to the point where war is waged over resources, it is known that political figures forget that War is not a sporting event. It is not a game or a competition. There are no stories of protagonists or antagonists. No heroism or valor exists in battle. The only thing what's in these soldier's minds is to make sure their men are safe and sound. My grandfather who suffered World War II as a young teenager told me this very importance.

War is not what makes people great.
March 24th, 2005  
A Can of Man
If you help free people from a group of thugs (which is what's going on now) that is the good fight.

What would happen in your neighborhood if the police gave up fighting the criminals in the "persuit of peace?" Does busting their butts with lousy hours, pretty modest pay and high risk make these police officers good men? Of course it does.

The whole "War For Oil" is just a blind blanket statement made by non-thinkers in general. There are those who think it through and hard and decide with some backable facts that it was about oil, but these are hard to find.
March 24th, 2005  
Duty Honor Country
This thread has the potential to become very explosive. If, for any reason, things get out of control, the mods and I will be quick to lock it down.

Follow the rules, be respectful and this topic shall remain open.

SGT Doody
March 24th, 2005  
Whispering Death
The people who espouse such an argument, in America at least, are apealing to the emotions their target. This argument plays on the emotional distaste for large companies in the wake of Enron. It seeks to demonise the Bush administration by linking it to another large company, Haliburton.

The facts arn't important for this argument, it thrives off of the emotional fear and distrust already latent in people about the potential abuse of power by the executive of America.
March 24th, 2005  
can anyone give me some figures

even if it is the fuel sconomy of a abrams tank times how many abrams in iraq

March 24th, 2005  
A Can of Man
Here's some

"A tank will need approximately 300 gallons every eight hours; this will vary depending on mission, terrain, and weather. A single tank takes 10 minutes to refuel. Refueling and rearming of a tank platoon--four tanks--is approximately 30 minutes under ideal conditions. 0.6 miles per gallon.

60 gallons per hour when traveling cross-country
30+ gallons per hour while operating at a tactical ideal
10 gallons basic idle
A mine plow will increase the fuel consummation rate of a tank by 25 percent"
from globalsecurity.org

I don't know how many tanks though. I think someone with a US Army background will have a better idea on the organization structure of a US Armored unit.

Then again, what about combat jets and helicopters? Those are gas guzzlers too!

Here's something on Iraqi oil
"Iraq has 360 billion barrels of proven reserves, 12% of the world total. What makes Iraq a wealthy country is that the oil in the ground is an asset like money in the bank. Much of Iraq remains unexplored and ultimate reserves are expected to be a larger percentage. The Gulf region has 65% of the world’s proven oil reserves.
Iraq will be producing 6 million barrels of oil a day very soon, which is about 2 billion barrels per year. At $30 per barrel, that oil would sell for $60 billion per year. The population of Iraq is 24 million. That revenue translates into $2,500 per capita income per year. "

NOTE: Okay, it doesn't tell u about how much is coming out NOW but this could give u a decent idea at what the experts might have assumed would come out from Iraq. I don't know how good this source is... but if all of us go digging I'm sure we'll find out how valid these numbers are.

1 Barrel = 42 US gallons
"www.eia.doe.gov/kids/energyfacts/ science/energy_calculator.html"

http://www.metrication.com/ <-- you can download a free measure converter/calculator here

Happy Hunting!
I hope more people contribute to this because this really is a worthy thing to look at. Hats off to you Chewie.
March 24th, 2005  
It will be hard to collect numbers for Iraq right now. Insurgents are currently attacking and disabling pipelines etc. So the amount of oil flucuates.
March 24th, 2005  
A Can of Man
Yeah... so I thought maybe the estimate of the "ideal" could be something to shoot for. What if the politicians ASSUMED that all the oil would come out okay? Would it have still been economically reasonable to go to war for oil? If it checks out that it could, then there is a possibility. However, if it flunks even THIS, then the odds are stacked insanely heavily on the war being started for reasons OTHER than oil.