Is the US an anti intellectual country?

phoenix80

phoenix80

Banned
I have a communist minded colleague who hates the US (even though he is black and been to the US for a long time) and he carries his anti US rants wherever he goes.

I am not suggesting any racial bias here towards any one and if Mods find my comment NOT PROPER, please feel free to delete it.

But he claims that the American society is an anti-intellectual one and he denies the fact that the most hardline socialist, communist, leftists, liberals and other hippies have found the US a very good place to live and preach.

Just by looking at the number of commie/left wing thinkers living in the US, it is not possible that the USA is an anti-intellectual society.

My colleague says the way the US society tries to reject EVOLUTION and brings up a phoney thing like the Intelligent Design is the proof of it.

I am not buying what he says and I still stand on my point about the fact that radical leftists (like Edward Said, Jacques Derida, Ward Churchil...etc) enjoyed living in such a free and democratic society.

So my question to the forum members is Do you think the US society is a populist, anti intellectual society?

:?:
 
Well, since we have free speech it's hard to be anti-intellectual, though I suppose if no-one wanted to listen to your rants it could be interpreted as such. However, we've recently seen a few examples of legit science being impeded by religion in America - specifically, the evolution vs. intelligent design debate and the legislation denying stem cell researchers federal money.

People in this country seem to view science as its own religion, which is quite a misconception. It's not fair to think that most scientists are atheists.

It's kind of obvious what side I'm on in all this. Watching the news about evolution vs. intelligent design is painful. That there might actually be legislation requiring the teaching of such a theistic idea in public schools is deeply troubling to me. Evolution is the foundation of modern biology.

I support stem cell research in all its forms because I don't believe a few cells constitute human life. According to my definition, life doesn't begin until the first nervous system activity occurs in the brain of the foetus.

Of course, this also means that I think abortion should be legal until such activity occurs, and if you haven't made up your mind by then and change it later, well, you can put the kid up for adoption.

Anyways, now that I'm way off-track, I think that America is not necessarily anti-intellectual (though certain prominent groups and organizations in the country are), but it is becoming decidedly closed-minded.

P.S.: I'm agnostic, in case that explains anything...
 
I'm agnostic too, but does identifying a group of cells as human life only once the nervous system is being developed mean an handicapped person with a non-working nervous system is not human life? How about someone in deep coma or with irreversible cerebral damages?
Wow, this is the most off-topic reply I have ever made. Sorry Phoenix.

Back to topic. No, I don't think the US is anti-intellectual country. At least not more than others. It actually has one of the broadest forms of freedoms you can find on this planet.
 
I'm agnostic/pantheist, and I don't think the US is anti-intellectual. Otherwise they'd not have so many technological innovations. There may be some anti-intellectual elements crying out in the news, but fortunately for that country, they don't seem to be getting the upper hand any time soon.

major liability said:
I support stem cell research in all its forms because I don't believe a few cells constitute human life. According to my definition, life doesn't begin until the first nervous system activity occurs in the brain of the foetus.
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Your definition of human life relies on a belief. So if people are against abortion, they aren't necessarily anti-intellectual in my book.
 
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phoenix80 said:
Just by looking at the number of commie/left wing thinkers living in the US, it is not possible that the USA is an anti-intellectual society.
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I'm curious about the statement above. Do you mean to imply that the intellectual level of a society is proportional to the relative presence of "left wing thinkers"? Do you mean to imply that a decline in the acceptance of Marxist or Socialist-based thinking suggests a decline in the intellectual level or capacity of that society?

I would suggest the opposite. Most hard-line leftists tend to live in a fantasy land that absolutely rejects empirical evidence that doesn't promote a given ideology. It's often religion posing as "progressive politics."

Beward the idiots who claim to have knowledge of "truth" regardless of which part of the political spectum they are on.
 
Insight said:
I'm curious about the statement above. Do you mean to imply that the intellectual level of a society is proportional to the relative presence of "left wing thinkers"? Do you mean to imply that a decline in the acceptance of Marxist or Socialist-based thinking suggests a decline in the intellectual level or capacity of that society?

I would suggest the opposite. Most hard-line leftists tend to live in a fantasy land that absolutely rejects empirical evidence that doesn't promote a given ideology. It's often religion posing as "progressive politics."

Beward the idiots who claim to have knowledge of "truth" regardless of which part of the political spectum they are on.
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Nope.

But since leftists think so, I tell them that look, your famous thinkers live in that society so please STHU. :lol:

I believe that intellectualism is not a left or right wing concept.
 
Insight said:
So you are merely parroting the positon of the Marxists? Why bother?
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I guess you havent got the point yet.

I am saying that leftists live freely in the US and preach what they wish but they still keep on nagging and complaining.
 
I guess I don't get the connection between the presence of leftists in the country and the critque of anti-intellectualism. You continue to imply that their presence in the country is somehow evidence against their charge of anti-intellectualism. That seemst be like stating that the presence of liberal-minded individual in Iran refutes the charge that it is a theocracy.
 
different.

The left minded intellectuals, in the States, can preach what they want but in countries like Iran any thing anti-Islam is suppressed and means a crime. These are two different stuff we r talkin about.

And this is not my belief... I am trying to say how leftists see the US on intellectual issues.

I believe the US is not an anti intellectual society. Period
 
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I understand you are merely describing the position of your collegue, but I still don't understand what you mean when you said:

Just by looking at the number of commie/left wing thinkers living in the US, it is not possible that the USA is an anti-intellectual society.
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Your point here seems to be that the number of leftists in the US is somehow evidence against anti-intellectualism. What am I missing here?

I'll grant you that there is some irony in that the hate-spewers love to rail against a system that protects their own idiocy, but that doesn't seem to be the direction you're pointing.
 
Insight said:
I understand you are merely describing the position of your collegue, but I still don't understand what you mean when you said:



Your point here seems to be that the number of leftists in the US is somehow evidence against anti-intellectualism. What am I missing here?

I'll grant you that there is some irony in that the hate-spewers love to rail against a system that protects their own idiocy, but that doesn't seem to be the direction you're pointing.
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:cheers:
No, the number of leftist thinkers has nothing to do with my statement.

Indeed, I was saying that the left claims the US is an anti intellectual one, while their own useless thinkers live in the very same society they preach against.

They claim it is anti intellectual while living in the same society.

I dont get it either! LMAO

They hate it but yet they are still there. Why?
 
Then I will stop trying to decipher your original post. Perhaps we agree on this point. I assume you are not a native English speaker and will therefore cease belaboring what appears to be a miscommunication.

Marxists are idiots. I'm sure we are in violent agreement on this point.
 
phoenix80 said:
But he claims that the American society is an anti-intellectual one and he denies the fact that the most hardline socialist, communist, leftists, liberals and other hippies have found the US a very good place to live and preach.
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I think American communists/socialists are generally complete idiots who like to think they're SO MUCH MORE INTELLIGENT than anyone else. Oh none of these American idiots can understand how brilliant my communist ideas are! I'm so persecuted because these idiots don't listen to me!

By the way, when it comes to college kids (i.e. my peers) generally speaking these guys only listened to MTV and Ryan Seacrest in highschool so when they actually are old enough to listen to a logical discourse for the first time in their life... to them THEY'RE BRILLIANT! WOW, reading this Socrates discourse is so much more intelligent than the Sports Illustrated I used to read! Now that I'm so much more smart, obviously no one could get as smart as this except for me!

And these groups play right into that ignorant arrogance. "No man, everyone else is just force fed that propoganda comming out of their TV. But you, you're smarter than all of them and have figured out the truth! Everyone else is stupid but you're better just like us."

And a last thing, it's fundamentally American to feel persecuted. Don't ask me why. But it seems like no American doesn't feel persecuted. If you talk to an evangelical Christian he'll tell you christians are being persecuted in America. If you talk to a left-wing college professor he'll tell you they're being persecuted. And it just goes down to everything because no one is every really in the middle.
 
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America is only as anti-intellectual as any other nation in the western world. It just appears more so, because the anti-intellectuals in American society for one reason or another are more heard of in the international media.

Im not bagging the Americans, I know for a fact they have some incredibly intelligent people, such as Professor John Nash, Professor Steven Hawking.
But for some reason, the people in america who most appear in the international media, are their intllectual sespits, such as Michale Moore and Jane Fonda.
 
THEY'RE BRILLIANT! WOW, reading this Socrates discourse is so much more intelligent than the Sports Illustrated I used to read! Now that I'm so much more smart, obviously no one could get as smart as this except for me!
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Dear WD, we are usually more or less nsinc with eachother's views, but I do have a remark or two on this one. First intelligent and intellectual aren't the same thing, thus not interchangable. Second it should be smarter and not more smart :). If the adjective has 1 syllable it should be -er and -est, but that is just nitpicking, which I enjoy so much!

But to get on the isue. I think that the US is in general a non-intellectual society. Although the post doctorate education is probably the finest in the world, I tend to think that in general non-intellectual. The emphasis on daily life is on experience and practicality. Giving thing a long thought is usually not done. Just do it and see what happens is what I see and hear. (And is also the tenure given by many on this forum). Don't get me wrong; I'm not saying that the US population is not intelligent, but that they are no fan of the intellectual approach on many things....

I guess Oscar Wilde said it best, when he stated:
"Americans always do the right thing once they have exasperated all other options..."
 
I don't think the US is anti-intellectual, but I do think it is anti-stupidity.

Alot of these intellectual approaches look good on paper, but to the everyday guy who knows how it goes in the actual arena of life, he knows that it won't work.

The great experiment of communism looked good on paper. Even up to the eighties there were intellectuals who would say how good it was. Well it failled, and hundreds of millions if not billions of people paid the price in human suffering for a bunch of intellectuals who wanted to experiment on their theory.

To alot of intellectuals communism sure looked like the answer to society, but the average American knew better. That knowlege made them not what to let those intellectuals experiment with the same thing in the US. That's why I'm right when I say Americans are not anti-intellectual they are just anti-stupidity. An experiment of something else that will eventually fail is going on in "intellectualy friendly" Europe.

A good portion of Americans are still more concerned with common sense and practicality rather than ideas that only look good on paper. That's why some people think the US seems anti-intellectual, they are not they just want to make sure those ideas work first.

There is a saying, it goes something like this...

"He was so learned that he could say the word for horse in seven languages, but he couldn't tell one from a cow."



...Anyways people can maybe say that the US is anti-intellectual (if that holds any water) but you cant say the US is stupid, because just about every major life changing invention in the 20th century were made by Americans, from mass production of the automobile, to airplanes, to the home computer, to the intertnet all done by Americans. So those people can claim their intellectualism (whatever thats worth), I'll take our inventions anyday.
 
As I said Gladius there is a difference between intellect and intelligence. You can lack to first without lacking the latter. And as you said:
A good portion of Americans are still more concerned with common sense and practicality rather than ideas that only look good on paper.
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And there is certainly nothing wrong with that and your quote is very right. But the question was: Is America anti-intellectual? And your answer leads me to believe that it is.....
 
As I said Gladius there is a difference between intellect and intelligence. You can lack to first without lacking the latter.
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Check out the accepted synonyms and definition of intellect at the same source listed below:

Synonyms: intelligent, bright, brilliant, knowing, quick-witted, smart, intellectual
These adjectives mean having or showing mental keenness. Intelligent usually implies the ability to cope with new problems and to use the power of reasoning and inference effectively: The intelligent math students excelled in calculus. Bright implies quickness or ease in learning: The bright child learned the alphabet quickly. Brilliant suggests unusually impressive mental acuteness: “The dullard's envy of brilliant men is always assuaged by the suspicion that they will come to a bad end” (Max Beerbohm). Knowing implies the possession of knowledge, information, or understanding: Knowing collectors bought all the auctioned paintings. Quick-witted suggests mental alertness and prompt response: The quick-witted emergency medical staff averted a tragedy. Smart refers to quick intelligence and often a ready capability for taking care of one's own interests: Smart lawyers can effectively manipulate juries. Intellectual implies the capacity to grasp difficult or abstract concepts: Dinner at the philosopher's house was noted for its intellectual conversations.



​
    1. Of or relating to the intellect.
    2. Rational rather than emotional.
  2. Appealing to or engaging the intellect: an intellectual book; an intellectual problem.
    1. Having or showing intellect, especially to a high degree. See Synonyms at intelligent.
    2. Given to activities or pursuits that require exercise of the intellect.
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tu·al·ly adv.
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Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

intellectual
adj 1: of or relating to the intellect; "his intellectual career" 2: of or associated with or requiring the use of the mind; "intellectual problems"; "the triumph of the rational over the animal side of man" [syn: rational, noetic] 3: appealing to or using the intellect; "satire is an intellectual weapon"; "intellectual workers engaged in creative literary or artistic or scientific labor"; "has tremendous intellectual sympathy for oppressed people"; "coldly intellectual"; "sort of the intellectual type"; "intellectual literature" [ant: nonintellectual] 4: involving intelligence rather than emotions or instinct; "a cerebral approach to the problem"; "cerebral drama" [syn: cerebral] [ant: emotional] n : a person who uses the mind creatively [syn: intellect]

Source: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=intellectual

Seems to me that intellectualism runs rampant in the U.S according to this definition. Lots of new gadgets being made, new inventions, new ways of doing things. Not to mention how much more accepting many people are to different aspects of life and lifestyles.

There is no way that any country in the world can be deemed anti-intellectual as a whole. It would be self defeating. Aspects of the country sure, but as a complete entity I beg to differ.
 
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