Unwittingly, is the West enabling its future Executioners? - Page 5




 
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Unwittingly, is the West enabling its future Executioners?
 
June 8th, 2007  
senojekips
 
 
Unwittingly, is the West enabling its future Executioners?
The question of Australia is exactly the same, but unfortunately nothing to do with this debate. It has nothing to do with the subject of this thread except as a comparison and I thought that given my views on the current subject, my answer to that question would be perfectly apparent. Also any damage done was done over 100 years ago when attitudes were somewhat different. Today we are supposed to be a little more civilised.

Would you care to enlighten me as what I do not understand about the holocaust? At least I do not refer to "many holocausts", it is you who have it wrong and I urge you to consult any dictionary or Jewish history site. "The Holocaust" refers to one event in Europe approx. 1933 - 1945. If you mean the constant displacement and harassment of the Jews where ever they went, my opinion has already been given in that the Jews were usually only only treated in this manner when they insisted on not assimilating in their new country of choice. I and many generations of my ancestors have assimilated in my country of birth, and have never suffered any disadvantage or harassment. As a Jew who had assimilated, one of my relatives, Samuel Gluckstein Joseph, went on to be a very popular Lord Mayor of London.

Prior to the arrival of the European Jews and the formation of the new Jewish state, Palestine was "relatively peaceful" when compared with other countries in its time and part of the world.

In my opinion Israel only has the degree of support from the United States that it has, for two reasons:
(1) They are the enemy of the enemies of the US.
(2) The powerful American Jewish lobby which makes it politically expedient at this time.

P.S. added later. Del Boy, when you next refer to "Arabs", go and look up the true meaning of the word Semitic, as interpreted, all Semites are "Arabs" including the Jews.
June 8th, 2007  
senojekips
 
 
Ahhh,...... Bulldogg, I knew we could count on you for a clear and concise answer. Like much of this debate your answer is not very palatable, but you've just about hit the nail on the head.

Your hammer is a tad oversized for the job though.
June 8th, 2007  
Gator
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Ahhh,...... Bulldogg, I knew we could count on you for a clear and concise answer. Like much of this debate your answer is not very palatable, but you've just about hit the nail on the head.

Your hammer is a tad oversized for the job though.

And if the Indigs of Australia had Nukes would you feel safer if they wanted to take their land back off you?

I know if the American Indians had as many Nukes as the United States Military I would not feel safe at all.

Much like the Jews stole their land off the people who lived there.... as their god may have given the Jews land, if you believe in such things.... but then the very same god threw the Jews out for being bad people, and then gave said land to the enemy of the Jews.... and as I read the Holy Book of the Jew there is nothing official about their god changing his mind and leaving them (the Jews) back in.

In my opinion if the Palestinians had Nukes just like the Israeli Jews the entire area and thinking about whos land is whos would be very different, so, why not as long as the Israeli Jews have Illegal WMD, why not allow the Arabs to have Illegal WMDs as well.... Arab States like Iran, and non-States like the Palestinians? Or take all Illegal WMD off everyone and Arm everyone the same?

In my opinion would be a true test of who wants what more, and who is willing to go the distance and kill (and perhaps lose) millions if need be to get what they wanted.
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Unwittingly, is the West enabling its future Executioners?
June 8th, 2007  
senojekips
 
 
Gator, this is way off topic but I will give you my answer.

No doubt there are Aboriginals who would like their country back, but they are smart enough to realise that they would then all return to the stone age, and those of them with the necessary education would rip off any benefits that the remainder managed to accrue.

There is no way that 99% of them would survive, they have for the most part lost their hunter gatherer skills, and even if they hadn't, there wouldn't be any who would voluntarily return to that lifestyle. (How many American Indians would/could voluntarily go back to their traditional lifestyle 100%)

When confronted with the alternatives, not even the most radical Aboriginal activist would honestly consider taking back their country. What they have at the moment is poor, but it is 100 times better than what you suggest.
June 8th, 2007  
Del Boy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MontyB
As much as I would like to stay out of this mainly because I tend to agree with Seno on this one but I have one one question for Del.
What do you mean by this comment:
, I was referring to The Zionist movement being basically a left wing agricultural project intent on turning the desert into bloom. I am speaking very generally here. They very quickly did so. So Israel blossomed.
June 8th, 2007  
Del Boy
 
The Australian question was not off topic at all. I was the attitude expressed that Europeans had grabbed a position in the middle east and should merely be swept aside, having not right to be there.

I was simply about to ask how Australians should re-act if faced with a polite request to leave now, as the white South Africans were?

I had to wait for Gator to extract a reply, and the question stands. it is not a flippant one, but a serious tead.( Let me say that I am a great fan of Australia and at the moment wish we would adopt their current model.)

Can I politely request a reply?
June 8th, 2007  
Padre
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bulldogg
NUKE EM IF THEY CANT LEARN TO CO-EXIST. This will thin the heard of those unable to live peaceably and free up more resources for the rest of us.


hey dude, chill out man, peace and love is whats we need. Share the love around an aroun an arrrr.....go pick flowers man and be one with the cosmic brotherhood dude. breathe man.
June 8th, 2007  
senojekips
 
 
Del Boy, the answer has been given, Post 44, para 2.

At no stage have the settlers in Australia ever expressed that we as a group have a "God given right" to be here in Australia. You are just snatching at straws.

No aboriginal is banned from any area of this country that is open to whites, but the reverse is definitely not so.

On this subject, your logic is flawed, and also not going to lead me away from my original statement pertaining to the "poor downtrodden me" syndrome. I stand by it.
June 8th, 2007  
Del Boy
 
Senojekips

We have here a tendency to ignore unpalatable questions. Gator having extracted an answer, the question has moved on. Post 46 para2.

Please answer for the benefit of the debate.

Because of the sudden upsurge in interest, I now have my second wind, and if the mods allow i will move the debate onwards and upwards, in order to investigate our attitudes a little further.

Yes, I would like to take a look at your logic as well as mine to see where the flaw lies.

Thank you for the history lessons, in some cases unnecessary and in others uninformed.

I have to go now, but I will return in full reply to the latest posts later, mods permitting.



It is very important that I explain to you the difference between The Holocaust and the struggle which we see in the Middle East. I admit to surprise, but that's life I guess.

Meanwhile - Peace.
June 8th, 2007  
Padre
 
 
The Jews have been in the area we now call Israel / Palestine for several thousand years - and as settlers - not as nomads like their non-Jewish neighbours. The only time they were not there was went they got kicked out by the Romans or the crusaders (for which JP II said sorry). All Britain did in 1945-48 was "return" the Jews to a "re-established" nation. No one should have a problem with this.

Seno is dead right however on the Australian situation (why the hell should I pay $10 to climb Ayres Rock or go fishing for blue bone up past Lombadina WA?), but I wouldn't draw parallels with the Middle East question and Australia. Now Northern Ireland - there's a good comparison.

I do agree with Seno on the victim mentality thing by Middle Easterners whether Jewish or Islamic or other Arab. There's a dose of that in many cultures and societies but not on the scale of the Middle East (I've lived in Israel). I don't see it much among Jews in Australia but I do see it among Islamists and they're playing it right now for what it is worth.
 


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