Unwittingly, is the West enabling its future Executioners? - Page 3




 
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Unwittingly, is the West enabling its future Executioners?
 
June 7th, 2007  
MontyB
 
 
Unwittingly, is the West enabling its future Executioners?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Padre
Well, put "The God Delusion" down next to "The Da Vinci Code" for a second, and go have a read of Pernoud's book. Not as funny as the "Life of Brian" or "Black Adder," but still....
How about we compromise and I watch the Monty Pythons Holy Grail again?
June 7th, 2007  
senojekips
 
 
Del Boy, regarding my comment on the "poor downtrodden me" syndrome, perhaps I did commit the sin of making a generalisation about "all" Jews. I have a London Jewish ancestry myself, and perhaps it has made me somewhat sensitive to this form of attempted blackmail. I have seen a lot of it, that's all, and it gets up my nose a bit.
June 7th, 2007  
mmarsh
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Del Boy, regarding my comment on the "poor downtrodden me" syndrome, perhaps I did commit the sin of making a generalisation about "all" Jews. I have a London Jewish ancestry myself, and perhaps it has made me somewhat sensitive to this form of attempted blackmail. I have seen a lot of it, that's all, and it gets up my nose a bit.
I have too, I don't disagree.
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Unwittingly, is the West enabling its future Executioners?
June 7th, 2007  
Del Boy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
I have too, I don't disagree.
Care to elucidate.
June 7th, 2007  
Del Boy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by senojekips
Del Boy, regarding my comment on the "poor downtrodden me" syndrome, perhaps I did commit the sin of making a generalisation about "all" Jews. I have a London Jewish ancestry myself, and perhaps it has made me somewhat sensitive to this form of attempted blackmail. I have seen a lot of it, that's all, and it gets up my nose a bit.
That's OK friend. I understand.I have to say that as a christian of 72, that has not been the English experience. I would have described that as English, grateful, patriotic and proud, and NOT seperate.

I understood that was also the American experience. Am I wrong?

I would have to discount the European attitudes, for obvious historic reasons, and particularly in the case of France.

If we are looking at the 2000 year experience of the diaspora, on which I must admit to being well informed, then no reasonable person could find a better adjective than 'downtrodden'. America has been a great exception.
June 7th, 2007  
mmarsh
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Boy
Care to elucidate.
I think Senojekips put it correctly.

There is a tendency amongst certain people (not all) to play the downtrodden too much because of past misfortunes. I don't deny that history hasn't always been kind to either the Muslims or the Jews, but there comes a point were both groups need to focus on the present and future rather than dwell on the past. Lamenting about tragedies that happened decades ago does not solve current problems nor is it an excuse to do injustices unto others as it sometimes has.
June 7th, 2007  
senojekips
 
 
In my opinion, much of the misery visited upon both groups has been bought about by their steadfast reluctance to blend in to their adopted cultures.

If you desire to be different, you will attract the attention of the majority. It ain't the most endearing feature of human nature, but I feel that it is the case more often than not.

How many times have I heard Jews using the term "God's chosen people" to describe we of the Jewish faith, then without drawing breath they go onto tell you how we Jews are persecuted every where we go. ??? Come again?
June 7th, 2007  
Del Boy
 
Both references historic. The first refers to the necessity to be a flame, an example, up there to be shot at and ready to take it, as far as religion is concerned, and the wide spread of christianity, and even of mohammedism, for Mohammed is said to have prayed at the western wall, shows just how well they carried the torch ; the fact is that they have considered it their responsibility, burden even, rather than a glorification.

The second reference happens to be true, and for the past 2000 years, the responsibility lies largely with the politicising of The Gospels by my Roman Catholic church in favour of The Roman Empire in the early part of the last millenium. Very unfortunate for humanity.

I don't know where you guys have mixed with Jews, we have very left in England, and do you know why - ASSIMILATION. The perfect example.
Of course we have a tiny group of religious Hassedics, but hey, even Israel has its religious to deal with, like America.

Your example I do not recognise, but I am interested to know more.
I have never met Jews bending the knee. Since The Holocaust, they never tip the whipper, which is what should be understood about the Israeli psyche. They ain't coming back for more.
June 7th, 2007  
Del Boy
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarsh
I think Senojekips put it correctly.

There is a tendency amongst certain people (not all) to play the downtrodden too much because of past misfortunes. I don't deny that history hasn't always been kind to either the Muslims or the Jews, but there comes a point were both groups need to focus on the present and future rather than dwell on the past. Lamenting about tragedies that happened decades ago does not solve current problems nor is it an excuse to do injustices unto others as it sometimes has.
There is no comparison between the two groups in this respect. Ther is no justification for preaching to Jews about forgetting The Holocaust. This is still living memory my friend. Consult your Grandfather on the issue.
You can forget it all you want, except when it is convenient for use in a debate, but don't tell Jews to.Take a look at my last qoted posted .

As for Israel, your target I assume, always remember the problem they live with. If the great Arab nation stops firing- the war ends. If Israel stops firing - Israel ends.

I am sure America has shown that it knows that, whereas the rest think they can solve all their global problems by sacrificing Israel; after all, they are only Jews. The problem would not go away, it would still come for you and yours given time. And Israel is not kneeling for another holocaust. For some goddarn reason, they are not talking chosen, and not pleading poor me.
Funny that - difficult swines, ain't they.
June 7th, 2007  
senojekips
 
 
Obviously we move in different circles, I am in the middle of researching my Jewish ancestry and attend many lectures and meetings of various Jewish family history groups. I have made a great many friends both personally and via the internet and all of the things I have mentioned have been bought to my attention as a result of this interaction.

Perhaps the fact that I see these statements as being somewhat inflammatory makes them stand out to me. This in no way affects my relationships with those I have met. they are a great group of people who have accepted me and have helped me enormously with my understanding of all things Jewish.

The Israeli psyche if I understand what you mean, is somewhere that I would rather not go. Every day their treatment of the Palestinians gets more and more like that of the Nazis towards the Jews of Europe 1933-45.
 


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